Let's Get Out NOW!!!!!!!
01-12-2005, 05:45 PM
#1
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Let's Get Out NOW!!!!!!!
Rain on these idiots! Let's not wait until March. Let's get out now and take all the food, water, medical supplies, building supplies and machinery with us!
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ami.36675.html
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...ami.36675.html
01-12-2005, 06:06 PM
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I read the article. Thanks by the way crobtex. I heard earlier today that the militia in charge in Indonesia said for us to wrap it up and the sooner we get out the better for them. The TV story put a different spin on it. This article says we are being forced to turn back with our food and meds while needy people including children are just out of reach of our helos. Even trying to jump high enough to get hold of the skids of the helos. Disturbing.
Nat
Nat
01-12-2005, 06:11 PM
#6
Chapter President
Thread Starter
I'll cut and paste.........
I'm upset because I'm tired of this crap. We "give" away more in aid to unfriendly countries then anyone in the world. What has it got us? Nothing much. I'm tired of turning the other cheek. If these idiots need our help, let them ask for it without tying our hands and trying to embrass us. We need to quit being the financial "patsey" for the world.
How many of them sent aid to Florida? How many are helping with the weather related problems in the Western United States now? NONE!
Indonesian sensitivities cause changes in U.S. tsunami aid
02:39 PM CST on Wednesday, January 12, 2005
Associated Press
ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN - The aircraft carrier leading the U.S. military's tsunami relief effort steamed out of Indonesian waters Wednesday after the country declined to let the ship's fighter pilots use its airspace for training missions -- part of a broad effort by Indonesia to reassert control over its territory.
The USS Abraham Lincoln's diversion, which was not expected to affect aid flights, came as the White House asked the Indonesian government to explain why it appears to be demanding that the U.S. military and other foreign troops providing disaster relief leave the country by the end of March.
"We've seen the reports. ... We'll seek further clarification from Indonesia about what this means," said Scott McClellan, press secretary to President Bush. "We hope that the government of Indonesia and the military in Indonesia will continue the strong support they have provided to the international relief efforts so far."
The Indonesian government said foreign troops would be out of the country by March 31. "A three-month period is enough, even sooner the better," Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Tuesday.
U.S. Marines have scaled back their plans to send hundreds of troops ashore to build roads and clear rubble. The two sides reached a compromise in which the Americans agreed not to set up a base camp on Indonesia or carry weapons.
Instead, the Marines -- some 2,000 of whom were diverted to tsunami relief from duty in Iraq -- will keep a "minimal footprint" in the country, with most returning to ships at night, said Col. Tom Greenwood, commander of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
The moves highlight sensitivities in Indonesia about foreign military forces. The Indonesian military has warned that areas of tsunami-battered Aceh province may not be safe for aid workers, underscoring its efforts to regain control of the long-troubled region on Sumatra island.
Indonesia -- where the Dec. 26 disaster killed more than 106,000 people -- is not the only affected country that is ambivalent about U.S. military aid.
After the earthquake and tsunami, the U.S. military dispatched the Abraham Lincoln battle group to Sumatra and three ships carrying Marines toward Sri Lanka, where more than 30,000 people were killed. But two ships carrying Marines were diverted to Sumatra after Sri Lanka downgraded its request for help. India, where more than 10,000 were killed, rebuffed U.S. aid offers.
Some 13,000 U.S. military personnel, most of them aboard ships in the Abraham Lincoln's battle group, are taking part in the relief effort.
In Indonesia, hundreds of troops from other nations are also helping out, along with U.N. agencies and scores of non-governmental aid groups.
Australia has more than 600 troops in Aceh and expects to have about 300 more by week's end. Japan has sent two ships with 350 troops, and has promised to deploy about 1,000. Germany and Britain each has a smaller presence, involving mostly medical teams.
They, too, have agreed not to carry weapons while on Indonesian soil and are leaving security to the Indonesian military.
Aceh province is the scene of a decades-old conflict between separatist rebels and government troops, though both say they won't launch attacks during the tsunami emergency. Indonesian soldiers and witnesses have described at least one clash in detail to The Associated Press, involving rebels who were either seeking food or trying to visit relatives.
The Indonesian government has traditionally barred foreigners from visiting Aceh, relenting after the tsunami struck and no other option existed but to invite foreign troops to deliver aid and set up field hospitals.
Indonesian authorities are now moving reassert control. On Wednesday, they ordered aid workers to declare travel plans or face expulsion from Aceh, saying it was for their safety.
Australian Prime Minister John Howard described the demand as "a good idea."
But Australian National University defense expert Clive Williams said the Indonesians want to keep close tabs on foreigners to conceal corruption.
"The big problem with dealing with (the military) in Aceh is that they're involved in a lot of corruption there and the reason I think they don't want people to go to some areas is because they're involved in human rights abuses," Williams said.
U.N. officials worried the new rules might delay the delivery of supplies.
"Any requirements that would create any additional bottlenecks or delays or otherwise adversely affect our operations need to be reviewed very carefully," said Kevin Kennedy at the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
The USS Abraham Lincoln's diversion to international waters did not interrupt the steady stream of helicopter flights delivering aid along the devastated coast of Sumatra island, because they were able to refuel on other Navy ships closer to shore, said Lt. Cmdr. John M. Daniels.
Under Navy rules, pilots of carrier-based warplanes cannot go longer than 14 days without flying, or their skills are considered to have degraded too far and they have to undergo extensive retraining.
The bulk of the Marines' mission, meanwhile, has become ferrying aid workers and transporting food from the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard. On Wednesday, Marine helicopters flew the first mission to the shattered city of Calang to drop off a French medical team. Helicopters also delivered supplies to Indonesian troops in Meulaboh, farther south.
Capt. David Shealy swooped his helicopter down on a scene of utter destruction -- palm trees lying strewn across a beach, their roots sticking out of the sand. Rice paddies were filled with mud. Houses had been turned into piles of rubble, or washed out to sea. Bridges were buckled and broken.
But as Shealy lowered his helicopter to hover just a few feet over a road, hundreds of people suddenly appeared, swarming around, arms outstretched.
"It's like nothing I've ever seen before," said Shealy, of Dillon, S.C.
I'm upset because I'm tired of this crap. We "give" away more in aid to unfriendly countries then anyone in the world. What has it got us? Nothing much. I'm tired of turning the other cheek. If these idiots need our help, let them ask for it without tying our hands and trying to embrass us. We need to quit being the financial "patsey" for the world.
How many of them sent aid to Florida? How many are helping with the weather related problems in the Western United States now? NONE!
Indonesian sensitivities cause changes in U.S. tsunami aid
02:39 PM CST on Wednesday, January 12, 2005
Associated Press
ABOARD THE USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN - The aircraft carrier leading the U.S. military's tsunami relief effort steamed out of Indonesian waters Wednesday after the country declined to let the ship's fighter pilots use its airspace for training missions -- part of a broad effort by Indonesia to reassert control over its territory.
The USS Abraham Lincoln's diversion, which was not expected to affect aid flights, came as the White House asked the Indonesian government to explain why it appears to be demanding that the U.S. military and other foreign troops providing disaster relief leave the country by the end of March.
"We've seen the reports. ... We'll seek further clarification from Indonesia about what this means," said Scott McClellan, press secretary to President Bush. "We hope that the government of Indonesia and the military in Indonesia will continue the strong support they have provided to the international relief efforts so far."
The Indonesian government said foreign troops would be out of the country by March 31. "A three-month period is enough, even sooner the better," Indonesian Vice President Jusuf Kalla said Tuesday.
U.S. Marines have scaled back their plans to send hundreds of troops ashore to build roads and clear rubble. The two sides reached a compromise in which the Americans agreed not to set up a base camp on Indonesia or carry weapons.
Instead, the Marines -- some 2,000 of whom were diverted to tsunami relief from duty in Iraq -- will keep a "minimal footprint" in the country, with most returning to ships at night, said Col. Tom Greenwood, commander of the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit.
The moves highlight sensitivities in Indonesia about foreign military forces. The Indonesian military has warned that areas of tsunami-battered Aceh province may not be safe for aid workers, underscoring its efforts to regain control of the long-troubled region on Sumatra island.
Indonesia -- where the Dec. 26 disaster killed more than 106,000 people -- is not the only affected country that is ambivalent about U.S. military aid.
After the earthquake and tsunami, the U.S. military dispatched the Abraham Lincoln battle group to Sumatra and three ships carrying Marines toward Sri Lanka, where more than 30,000 people were killed. But two ships carrying Marines were diverted to Sumatra after Sri Lanka downgraded its request for help. India, where more than 10,000 were killed, rebuffed U.S. aid offers.
Some 13,000 U.S. military personnel, most of them aboard ships in the Abraham Lincoln's battle group, are taking part in the relief effort.
In Indonesia, hundreds of troops from other nations are also helping out, along with U.N. agencies and scores of non-governmental aid groups.
Australia has more than 600 troops in Aceh and expects to have about 300 more by week's end. Japan has sent two ships with 350 troops, and has promised to deploy about 1,000. Germany and Britain each has a smaller presence, involving mostly medical teams.
They, too, have agreed not to carry weapons while on Indonesian soil and are leaving security to the Indonesian military.
Aceh province is the scene of a decades-old conflict between separatist rebels and government troops, though both say they won't launch attacks during the tsunami emergency. Indonesian soldiers and witnesses have described at least one clash in detail to The Associated Press, involving rebels who were either seeking food or trying to visit relatives.
The Indonesian government has traditionally barred foreigners from visiting Aceh, relenting after the tsunami struck and no other option existed but to invite foreign troops to deliver aid and set up field hospitals.
Indonesian authorities are now moving reassert control. On Wednesday, they ordered aid workers to declare travel plans or face expulsion from Aceh, saying it was for their safety.
Australian Prime Minister John Howard described the demand as "a good idea."
But Australian National University defense expert Clive Williams said the Indonesians want to keep close tabs on foreigners to conceal corruption.
"The big problem with dealing with (the military) in Aceh is that they're involved in a lot of corruption there and the reason I think they don't want people to go to some areas is because they're involved in human rights abuses," Williams said.
U.N. officials worried the new rules might delay the delivery of supplies.
"Any requirements that would create any additional bottlenecks or delays or otherwise adversely affect our operations need to be reviewed very carefully," said Kevin Kennedy at the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.
The USS Abraham Lincoln's diversion to international waters did not interrupt the steady stream of helicopter flights delivering aid along the devastated coast of Sumatra island, because they were able to refuel on other Navy ships closer to shore, said Lt. Cmdr. John M. Daniels.
Under Navy rules, pilots of carrier-based warplanes cannot go longer than 14 days without flying, or their skills are considered to have degraded too far and they have to undergo extensive retraining.
The bulk of the Marines' mission, meanwhile, has become ferrying aid workers and transporting food from the amphibious assault ship USS Bonhomme Richard. On Wednesday, Marine helicopters flew the first mission to the shattered city of Calang to drop off a French medical team. Helicopters also delivered supplies to Indonesian troops in Meulaboh, farther south.
Capt. David Shealy swooped his helicopter down on a scene of utter destruction -- palm trees lying strewn across a beach, their roots sticking out of the sand. Rice paddies were filled with mud. Houses had been turned into piles of rubble, or washed out to sea. Bridges were buckled and broken.
But as Shealy lowered his helicopter to hover just a few feet over a road, hundreds of people suddenly appeared, swarming around, arms outstretched.
"It's like nothing I've ever seen before," said Shealy, of Dillon, S.C.
01-12-2005, 07:12 PM
#7
Registered User
Seems right to me. They don't want us seeing they protect & condone the sex trafficing of children and human slaves. This is the only place on the planet where a pedifile can rent a child for the weekend. This is a very corrupt part of the world, and they don't like US Marines poking around where we could find them.
Remember this tsunami was an act of God right? God pointed his flashlight at that part of the world and said "What's up with dat ya'll?"
Remember this tsunami was an act of God right? God pointed his flashlight at that part of the world and said "What's up with dat ya'll?"
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01-12-2005, 07:49 PM
#10
I wouldn't see it as an act of God. Just an earthquake. Spit happens. I don't know anybody that got injured, neither do the vast majority of Americans. I definitly don't think it hurt our economical stature any. Only part that really bums me out is that Petra Nemcova broke her pelvis. I still cry myself to sleep when I think about that.
If a tsunami has to strike somewhere, that's probably the most insignificant place on the world for it to happen. Better there than here.
I'm not summing up what should be everybody's personal actions, only what should be our governments actions. The government should never grant aid. The government should be dedicated to nobody's profit and prosperity except for itself- a.k.a. America's population. No other government on the world helps other countries with nothing gained in return. It's uneconomical. It is totally out of the Government's domain. Aid is the Red Cross's and UN's job; if we feel good will, give them the money.
How many billions have we given to India or whatever for the Tsunami? And how many trillions are we in national debt? We need to cut back spending, starting with stupid government welfare for people who still are never going to have any money to pay us back.
Our government has the right to give welfare to injured, drop-dead Angelically gorgeous Czech supermodels. Anything else is not covered in the role of a democratic government. Any charity not going to Czech supermodels should come straight from the private public.
If a tsunami has to strike somewhere, that's probably the most insignificant place on the world for it to happen. Better there than here.
I'm not summing up what should be everybody's personal actions, only what should be our governments actions. The government should never grant aid. The government should be dedicated to nobody's profit and prosperity except for itself- a.k.a. America's population. No other government on the world helps other countries with nothing gained in return. It's uneconomical. It is totally out of the Government's domain. Aid is the Red Cross's and UN's job; if we feel good will, give them the money.
How many billions have we given to India or whatever for the Tsunami? And how many trillions are we in national debt? We need to cut back spending, starting with stupid government welfare for people who still are never going to have any money to pay us back.
Our government has the right to give welfare to injured, drop-dead Angelically gorgeous Czech supermodels. Anything else is not covered in the role of a democratic government. Any charity not going to Czech supermodels should come straight from the private public.
01-13-2005, 01:32 PM
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Ok, lets look at this from the other side for a second. You are a small 3rd world country who has been devastated by a natural disaster. Communications and logistics are in shambles. You have relatively recently fought for or been granted independant nation status after years of being ruled as a foreign colony. Your military, such as it is only operates within your own borders.
The largest military in the world shows up and says "we're from the government and we're here to help you." I'd be a little antsy too. Bad memories last a long time. Not from anything the U.S. did, but just from past actions by whoever,
So they may seem to be over-reacting by some, but when one looks at the underlying reasons for this unease, perhaps it is a little more understandable.
After all, you must admit that not all U.S. aid offers have been without "strings attached" even though this one is. The U.S. fought for autonomy and won it about 230 years ago. Their self-confidence is a little higher, wouldn't you think?
Beegle1, "No other gov't on the world helps out other countries with nothing gained in return." ?!? Are you serious? Give your head a shake. Your government is absolutely no better at "no strings attached" aid than any other in the so-called first world. Don't mean total $, but number of times it actually happens.
This is just FYI stuff: Canada, BTW, has committed to a minimum 425 million $ to tsunami victims. Cdn gov't has pledged as well to give $2 for every private dollar donated to the cause by Canadian residents. And to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing being asked in return. (Maybe accountability, but with our gov't, thats just too funny) My Bro-in-law's boss donated (hang on, I just about dropped) Five Million dollars to the Red CrossTsunami fund. Not a celebrity, just a hard working man who built up his own business from scratch, and decided that since he can't take it with him, he should help those less fortunate. Quite a Couple. Donate about a million a year to various charity organisations.
Well this has gone long enough. Just trying to look from the other side of the fence.
The largest military in the world shows up and says "we're from the government and we're here to help you." I'd be a little antsy too. Bad memories last a long time. Not from anything the U.S. did, but just from past actions by whoever,
So they may seem to be over-reacting by some, but when one looks at the underlying reasons for this unease, perhaps it is a little more understandable.
After all, you must admit that not all U.S. aid offers have been without "strings attached" even though this one is. The U.S. fought for autonomy and won it about 230 years ago. Their self-confidence is a little higher, wouldn't you think?
Beegle1, "No other gov't on the world helps out other countries with nothing gained in return." ?!? Are you serious? Give your head a shake. Your government is absolutely no better at "no strings attached" aid than any other in the so-called first world. Don't mean total $, but number of times it actually happens.
This is just FYI stuff: Canada, BTW, has committed to a minimum 425 million $ to tsunami victims. Cdn gov't has pledged as well to give $2 for every private dollar donated to the cause by Canadian residents. And to the best of my knowledge, there is nothing being asked in return. (Maybe accountability, but with our gov't, thats just too funny) My Bro-in-law's boss donated (hang on, I just about dropped) Five Million dollars to the Red CrossTsunami fund. Not a celebrity, just a hard working man who built up his own business from scratch, and decided that since he can't take it with him, he should help those less fortunate. Quite a Couple. Donate about a million a year to various charity organisations.
Well this has gone long enough. Just trying to look from the other side of the fence.
01-13-2005, 02:31 PM
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Im with geico on the act of god aspect. I have to say though forget what their government wants we arent there for them we are there for humanity to keep people from dying and help make the country livable obviously they can't handle it themselves so lose the ego
01-13-2005, 03:04 PM
#14
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
I'm betting that the only thing that will happen from reading Begle's post is that 95% of the men on this board will do a Google search on Petra Nemcova. 
01-13-2005, 03:29 PM
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PONDER THIS! Why do we send all this help/support to countries who obvioulsy dont want it, wait a minute, They only want the MONEY! When our own people "CALIFORNIA" (example) has all this flood damage, homeless, and WE have to meet a certain criteria for assistance from the STATE/GOVERNMENT!
Can ANYONE answer this MILLION dollar question? NOW THIS IS B.S.!!!!!!
Can ANYONE answer this MILLION dollar question? NOW THIS IS B.S.!!!!!!