God vs Science....
11-28-2007, 01:14 PM
#106
DTR's Toad Wrangler
Join Date: May 2005
Location: N 48 25.707 W123 21.887
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this is what i tell the kids at church: " if you can boil the Bible down to one word, it is LOVE "
back on topic, you can GOOGLE "darwin reject evolution"
and that will have you reading FOREVER.
here's a good link:
http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_while/sage/v5i10f.htm
here's another, he seems to say Darwins 5 years of study pale in comparison to the raw amount of material to be studied in relation to this:
http://science.krishna.org/Articles/2000/10/00183.html
T-15 is just like a guy we have at our work, he was raised in church, dad's a Pastor, all that jazz.
but he fell out & got disenchanted with the whole deal.
i think you need to separate 2 things:
-organized religions
-personal faith.
--organized religion almost always seems to consist more of man (sin) than of Bible (love)
--personal faith (like Grant's post) comes from personal observance and leads to personal strength and deep seated faith - which is VERY hard to convey to someone who has never had faith, and has never had God move actively in their lives. (or, in their adult lives). Faith can be very difficult to explain, and even harder to impart to someone.
Hebrews 11:1
[ By Faith We Understand ] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
T-15, do me a favor. GOOGLE this: somebody said, to paraphrase "Darwin looked at the human eye in his older years, and agreed that in NO WAY could evolution explain the complexity of the human eye, and He rejected his own theory of evolution "
and I can't find anything to back this up, can you?
back on topic, you can GOOGLE "darwin reject evolution"
and that will have you reading FOREVER.
here's a good link:
http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~do_while/sage/v5i10f.htm
here's another, he seems to say Darwins 5 years of study pale in comparison to the raw amount of material to be studied in relation to this:
http://science.krishna.org/Articles/2000/10/00183.html
T-15 is just like a guy we have at our work, he was raised in church, dad's a Pastor, all that jazz.
but he fell out & got disenchanted with the whole deal.
i think you need to separate 2 things:
-organized religions
-personal faith.
--organized religion almost always seems to consist more of man (sin) than of Bible (love)
--personal faith (like Grant's post) comes from personal observance and leads to personal strength and deep seated faith - which is VERY hard to convey to someone who has never had faith, and has never had God move actively in their lives. (or, in their adult lives). Faith can be very difficult to explain, and even harder to impart to someone.
Hebrews 11:1
[ By Faith We Understand ] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
T-15, do me a favor. GOOGLE this: somebody said, to paraphrase "Darwin looked at the human eye in his older years, and agreed that in NO WAY could evolution explain the complexity of the human eye, and He rejected his own theory of evolution "
and I can't find anything to back this up, can you?
11-28-2007, 01:54 PM
#107
Banned
Evolution you say you can not see that happening, well then lets look at the current state of homosapien.
If you want to believe we ALL came from Adam and Eve then we all must have started as one color, so then tell me why we have so many different colors to our skin today? Evolution caused this. Dark skin was a benefit in Africa and for the most part of the equatorial regions of the earth as it protected man some from skin cancer. As man moved away from the equator other environmental issues allowed man to change without damage. Natural selection is not always about the fittest but can also be about what makes us more survivable to the conditions we live in. What survives reproduces, what fails to thrive does not reproduce. Remember this was happening when man had very little control over what happened to him. As we develop technology it matters less and less how tall we are or even if we walk up right or what color our skin is as we can control our environment now.
If you want to believe we ALL came from Adam and Eve then we all must have started as one color, so then tell me why we have so many different colors to our skin today? Evolution caused this. Dark skin was a benefit in Africa and for the most part of the equatorial regions of the earth as it protected man some from skin cancer. As man moved away from the equator other environmental issues allowed man to change without damage. Natural selection is not always about the fittest but can also be about what makes us more survivable to the conditions we live in. What survives reproduces, what fails to thrive does not reproduce. Remember this was happening when man had very little control over what happened to him. As we develop technology it matters less and less how tall we are or even if we walk up right or what color our skin is as we can control our environment now.
11-28-2007, 01:54 PM
#108
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fontana, CA
Posts: 5,776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After reading this all I can say is wow.
My house is full of religion - my wife is a religious scholar - but neither of us participate in any one particular religion. I refuse to prescribe to any, and actually dislike organized religion altogether. I do like to learn a bit about them all, but in a non-biased setting.
My house is full of religion - my wife is a religious scholar - but neither of us participate in any one particular religion. I refuse to prescribe to any, and actually dislike organized religion altogether. I do like to learn a bit about them all, but in a non-biased setting.
11-28-2007, 02:00 PM
#109
Registered User
For me if the whole evolution thing were true and things evolved over time then why haven't there ever been any fossils found of say a half plant and half monkey or something else. Because if life began from one cell and evolved in to other life form then there should be some sort of fossil record to prove true evolution but there isn't. So thats why I believe in the bible.
11-28-2007, 02:05 PM
#110
DTR's 'Wrench thrower...' And he aims for the gusto...
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Smith Valley, NV (sometimes Redwood City, CA)
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
Let me say that I don't see any conflict between evolution and creation. Evolution is random change. Change can't happen till there is something to change. Evolution does not explain the beginning. Only the changes over time caused by genetic mistakes that happened to be a slight advantage. Very slow and uneven. Random.
So, to all those that reject evolution please explain just what you are rejecting and how that fits the definition of evolution. Are you saying that no species have changed at all since creation? Or if they have, how did they?
Please don't go to "I'm not a monkey" or "I don't look like a sponge". I'm asking about the beginning. Are you saying that everything was created exactly like it is today?
This back and forth about creation vs evolution is going nowhere, it's debating about current affairs. Reach back much farther. Much farther. Are you really ready to say there has been no change in living things since the very beginnings of life? Or, as an example, were the first sea organisms, the dinosaurs, and modern man all created on the same day and have not changed since? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to understand where all of our belief systems can converge. Just what can we agree on without saying it's simply creation or evolution and that's it.
Lets go farther back. What did things look like before the big bang? Oops, to far. As all the heavens and earth were being created, from nothing, by God (according to one group), where did he find the space? In other words what is nothing? How big is nothing? Did he create that too? Is there some point at which we can all agree and then work from there?
Once again the questions are to big to answer. So if that's the case, how does arguing help? Arguing about something that is too big to understand. So then, each must have their own faith. Their own INNER faith to be at peace with the bigger picture. Or they must put the decisions on hold until they can work it out. One particular view can't be projected onto others without all the problems. Why is it so hard for the religious folk to let others have their own beliefs in peace?
John
So, to all those that reject evolution please explain just what you are rejecting and how that fits the definition of evolution. Are you saying that no species have changed at all since creation? Or if they have, how did they?
Please don't go to "I'm not a monkey" or "I don't look like a sponge". I'm asking about the beginning. Are you saying that everything was created exactly like it is today?
This back and forth about creation vs evolution is going nowhere, it's debating about current affairs. Reach back much farther. Much farther. Are you really ready to say there has been no change in living things since the very beginnings of life? Or, as an example, were the first sea organisms, the dinosaurs, and modern man all created on the same day and have not changed since? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to understand where all of our belief systems can converge. Just what can we agree on without saying it's simply creation or evolution and that's it.
Lets go farther back. What did things look like before the big bang? Oops, to far. As all the heavens and earth were being created, from nothing, by God (according to one group), where did he find the space? In other words what is nothing? How big is nothing? Did he create that too? Is there some point at which we can all agree and then work from there?
Once again the questions are to big to answer. So if that's the case, how does arguing help? Arguing about something that is too big to understand. So then, each must have their own faith. Their own INNER faith to be at peace with the bigger picture. Or they must put the decisions on hold until they can work it out. One particular view can't be projected onto others without all the problems. Why is it so hard for the religious folk to let others have their own beliefs in peace?
John
11-28-2007, 02:06 PM
#111
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fontana, CA
Posts: 5,776
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For me if the whole evolution thing were true and things evolved over time then why haven't there ever been any fossils found of say a half plant and half monkey or something else. Because if life began from one cell and evolved in to other life form then there should be some sort of fossil record to prove true evolution but there isn't. So thats why I believe in the bible.
Not trying to be rude/mean/disrespectful but you don't have an understanding of evolution.
11-28-2007, 02:08 PM
#112
DTR's 'Wrench thrower...' And he aims for the gusto...
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Smith Valley, NV (sometimes Redwood City, CA)
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
After reading this all I can say is wow.
My house is full of religion - my wife is a religious scholar - but neither of us participate in any one particular religion. I refuse to prescribe to any, and actually dislike organized religion altogether. I do like to learn a bit about them all, but in a non-biased setting.
My house is full of religion - my wife is a religious scholar - but neither of us participate in any one particular religion. I refuse to prescribe to any, and actually dislike organized religion altogether. I do like to learn a bit about them all, but in a non-biased setting.
John
11-28-2007, 02:16 PM
#114
Registered User
Evolution you say you can not see that happening, well then lets look at the current state of homosapien.
If you want to believe we ALL came from Adam and Eve then we all must have started as one color, so then tell me why we have so many different colors to our skin today? Evolution caused this. Dark skin was a benefit in Africa and for the most part of the equatorial regions of the earth as it protected man some from skin cancer. As man moved away from the equator other environmental issues allowed man to change without damage. Natural selection is not always about the fittest but can also be about what makes us more survivable to the conditions we live in. What survives reproduces, what fails to thrive does not reproduce. Remember this was happening when man had very little control over what happened to him. As we develop technology it matters less and less how tall we are or even if we walk up right or what color our skin is as we can control our environment now.
If you want to believe we ALL came from Adam and Eve then we all must have started as one color, so then tell me why we have so many different colors to our skin today? Evolution caused this. Dark skin was a benefit in Africa and for the most part of the equatorial regions of the earth as it protected man some from skin cancer. As man moved away from the equator other environmental issues allowed man to change without damage. Natural selection is not always about the fittest but can also be about what makes us more survivable to the conditions we live in. What survives reproduces, what fails to thrive does not reproduce. Remember this was happening when man had very little control over what happened to him. As we develop technology it matters less and less how tall we are or even if we walk up right or what color our skin is as we can control our environment now.
11-28-2007, 02:24 PM
#116
Registered User
Let me say that I don't see any conflict between evolution and creation. Evolution is random change. Change can't happen till there is something to change. Evolution does not explain the beginning. Only the changes over time caused by genetic mistakes that happened to be a slight advantage. Very slow and uneven. Random.
So, to all those that reject evolution please explain just what you are rejecting and how that fits the definition of evolution. Are you saying that no species have changed at all since creation? Or if they have, how did they?
Please don't go to "I'm not a monkey" or "I don't look like a sponge". I'm asking about the beginning. Are you saying that everything was created exactly like it is today?
This back and forth about creation vs evolution is going nowhere, it's debating about current affairs. Reach back much farther. Much farther. Are you really ready to say there has been no change in living things since the very beginnings of life? Or, as an example, were the first sea organisms, the dinosaurs, and modern man all created on the same day and have not changed since? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to understand where all of our belief systems can converge. Just what can we agree on without saying it's simply creation or evolution and that's it.
Lets go farther back. What did things look like before the big bang? Oops, to far. As all the heavens and earth were being created, from nothing, by God (according to one group), where did he find the space? In other words what is nothing? How big is nothing? Did he create that too? Is there some point at which we can all agree and then work from there?
Once again the questions are to big to answer. So if that's the case, how does arguing help? Arguing about something that is too big to understand. So then, each must have their own faith. Their own INNER faith to be at peace with the bigger picture. Or they must put the decisions on hold until they can work it out. One particular view can't be projected onto others without all the problems. Why is it so hard for the religious folk to let others have their own beliefs in peace?
John
So, to all those that reject evolution please explain just what you are rejecting and how that fits the definition of evolution. Are you saying that no species have changed at all since creation? Or if they have, how did they?
Please don't go to "I'm not a monkey" or "I don't look like a sponge". I'm asking about the beginning. Are you saying that everything was created exactly like it is today?
This back and forth about creation vs evolution is going nowhere, it's debating about current affairs. Reach back much farther. Much farther. Are you really ready to say there has been no change in living things since the very beginnings of life? Or, as an example, were the first sea organisms, the dinosaurs, and modern man all created on the same day and have not changed since? I'm not trying to be difficult here, I'm just trying to understand where all of our belief systems can converge. Just what can we agree on without saying it's simply creation or evolution and that's it.
Lets go farther back. What did things look like before the big bang? Oops, to far. As all the heavens and earth were being created, from nothing, by God (according to one group), where did he find the space? In other words what is nothing? How big is nothing? Did he create that too? Is there some point at which we can all agree and then work from there?
Once again the questions are to big to answer. So if that's the case, how does arguing help? Arguing about something that is too big to understand. So then, each must have their own faith. Their own INNER faith to be at peace with the bigger picture. Or they must put the decisions on hold until they can work it out. One particular view can't be projected onto others without all the problems. Why is it so hard for the religious folk to let others have their own beliefs in peace?
John
Great points raspy. You know what I believe but I also think that things are constantly changing (evolving if you will) I dont think we started as nothing I think we started as people but have improved through the years and became more advanced and adapted to our surroundings. Does that make sense?
11-28-2007, 02:28 PM
#117
Registered User
If I walk through the door at work and you slap me its not going to be very long until I get tired of it and one stop coming to work or two stop you from slapping me. Is that evolution or adapting to my surroundings and if it is evolution does that conclude we started from a single cell. This is the kind of changing and adapting I am talking about.
11-28-2007, 02:35 PM
#119
Registered User
Lets go farther back. What did things look like before the big bang? Oops, to far. As all the heavens and earth were being created, from nothing, by God (according to one group), where did he find the space? In other words what is nothing? How big is nothing? Did he create that too? Is there some point at which we can all agree and then work from there?
John
John
11-28-2007, 02:41 PM
#120
DTR's 'Wrench thrower...' And he aims for the gusto...
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Smith Valley, NV (sometimes Redwood City, CA)
Posts: 2,668
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
Great points raspy. You know what I believe but I also think that things are constantly changing (evolving if you will) I dont think we started as nothing I think we started as people but have improved through the years and became more advanced and adapted to our surroundings. Does that make sense?
I can't claim to know about the beginning and won't argue that. But, I think evolution can not be denied by anyone other than those trying to make a religious point or that just haven't looked at it honestly. Do you agree?
Thanks.
John