Hoss

The way I see it is that if this country is dumb enough to elect someone like John Kerry into office then we deserve the consequences of doing so.

By the way....I'm betting "Farenheight 9/11" is a flop. We'll see though. I know I'm not going to see it.

Hoss

Yes...and we should all be thankful that the vote ended up going his way.

Redleg

His wife kept her previous husbands name, wonder if that means anything.

greatwhite

Well folks, it's not my flag, and it's not my country, but its my opinion. Of course you should fly your flag high and with pride. If you don't agree, then why would you be living there? I fly my country's flag at my home with pride, and repair or replace it as required. Pinheads who have decided that pride in your own country is misguided are taking over the world. I won't argue that patriotism can go too far, but flying the flag in public is really not a stretch. Politically Correct? Naw, they're politically repressed.

Chrisreyn

Alpine, you must realize that the US is actually 50 smaller goverments and states each with its own social and regional cultures much the way Europe is.
The social norms vary from area to are across the country, although not nearly as much as they did in the past. What is important to a rancher in Montana may mean absolutly nothing to a fisherman in Maine, and because of this, the way our flag and goverment is veiwed is divided.
The US has not had mandatory military service since the draft ended, and our society prizes the right to voice discontent.
The flag, as a symbol of the country, becomes the rallying point to either side....

firestorm

You said it just the way it needs to be said. I received an email from a buddy of mine the other day and felt it fit with this discussion, so I copied/pasted the contents below. It's kind of long, but well worth the read.

THIS WAS IN THE TAMPA BAY NEWSPAPER

Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we
continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries
that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice??? Think
about it . .

All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break.. Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being
offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.

This says it all!

This is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a
Tampa newspaper. IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism
by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants.
However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic,
Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle.
Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping
about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.

dodgedude361

Hoss, we are all allowed an opinion, just because they differ it doesn`t meen its DUMB. You seem like an inteligent fellow, go see the movie first, then form an opinion. Try having an open mind.

If it were up the the Bush adddministration, NO ONE would see it. He is trying to block it`s release. THAT`s not American.

And stop with the bad bets, you like taking the longshots.

Gear Poet

hehe, are you serious?

I wish American was that way. Might have a greater choice than between tweedle-dee Kerry and tweedle-dum Bush, both of whom agree on 90% of the issues. (The disagreements are inflated for political gain.)

No, I fear that states rights and local political or cultural autonomy went out of style after the American Civil War. Feds, corporations, Almighty Capitalism, mass communication, and the global economy have been leveling the differences in American regionalism ever since. State or local governments are really no more than administrative conveniences; real policy is made on a national level. I sometimes wish America had the differences that Europeans are struggling (and failing badly) to preserve. Leave it to the European Union. . . .

These days, many if not most Americans are something like me -- born in the Rockies, educated in New England, living both in the West and the South, when business doesn't take me overseas. . . . cultural and political mongrel.

murray

dodgedude361,


"If it were up the the Bush administration, NO ONE would see it. He is trying to block it`s release. THAT`s not American".

Come on dodge..where in the world did you get that idea, "The administration is trying to block its release? (Fahrenheit 911).

We don't have to watch the movie. We get it everynight with Brokaw, Jennings, Rather and CNN.

Dave65

Our local new was @ the theaters to get reviews on Mikes movie and most sayed it is a wakeup call to how the Bush administration has abused the office and his personal war.
Dont flame me I am just passing on what I heard

welder27

Ya know what? I think 9/11 would have happened no matter who was in office. Ever since the Cold War ended our national security issues had gone out the window before 9/11. They're just picking on the Bush administration because they happened to be the ones it all got dumped on.

Raspy

To answer an earlier question that asked about displaying the flag and why some people may be reluctant to do so, I offer the following. And I'm not writing about the radical left flag burners either, just the average Joe that thinks about displaying our flag and what it means in this current climate.
First read the previous posts. Think about what is said. Things like "love it or leave it" , "exercise yout right to leave", "you're not wanted here", if you're dumb enough to vote for so and so you get what you deserve, "nothing burns me more than this crap about the pledge of allegiance", etc, etc ,etc, bal, bla, bla.
Do you see a trend? Now watch George Bush. Constantly wrapping himself in the flag and talking about God and country, as he bankrupts us financially and morally. Doing all he can to excite the religious right into a cultural screaming match with others that want to be left alone.
People see our invasion of Iraq and start screaming "support our troops" while they wave the biggest flag they can get their hands on.
Just don't mention that supporting our troops might mean something different to other Americans, or that our invasion may do more harm than good because all the flag wavers start screaming "unpatriotic," "love it or leave it" (what a cheap shot), kill, kill, kill, "get em", "torture 'em", "they're different than us".
There are many patriots who really care about this glorious land we live in and want it to be a just and plentiful beacon in the world. People who take the words of the constitution to heart. I count myself in that group. It has become so ingrained in our politics, and especially for our current leader, to hide behind the flag and say that "if your not with us your against us". So many people hear that and say YEAH! Love it or leave it! Kill, Kill! And start waving the flag as if they were patriotic, when it seems to me, they are intolerant and scared.
Here's a big news flash. I'm an American, I've been in the military, and I'm not leaving. I own flags and I have displayed them in the past, proudly. Unfortunately, now it seems to be more about supporting a very misguided foreign policy and a very controversial president than about celebrating the true promise of America. Yes I love this country and I'm deeply saddened to see the extreme intolerance that has developed here. It is so sad that the flag has become a lightening rod for our feelings about a war. A replacement for thoughtful conversation and listening. A diversion from the dirty little truths about the war that no one wants to address. An easy way to say "love it or leave it" intead of a celebration of the brotherhood of Americans. I've said it before and I believe it's true; "until we find a way to tolerate each other, we're on the path to destruction". And screaming doesn't help.

Wetspirit

030303

Hmm, how does that go...
I have seen the enemy within, and it is us?

Shovelhead

jfpointer

I'm also an American, I've also been in the military, and I'm also not leaving. I have only a couple of nits to pick with your post, no flames. The quote of "You're either with us or against us" was directed to other countries within the context of the war on terror, not to fellow Americans who might disagree with the administration's policies. And plenty do--I find it really difficult to support this administration's massive expansion of the welfare state via the Medicare drug program, and the whole steel tariffs thing was a doozy of a miscalculation. I find it amusing that the Chicken Little's are suddenly screaming that the sky is falling because of the Patriot Act, when the last 20 years have seen much more egregious erosions of civil rights in the name of the "War on Drugs" as well as in property rights with the increasingly arrogant abuse of eminent domain and environmental laws. Check my sig, that quote sums up my feelings about government nicely. As far as foreign policy, the UN has rendered itself useless by not enforcing its own resolutions, and dangerous by its over the top corruption. (I live in Jackson County, MO, so I'm familiar with government corruption. ) I think no country need feel or act defensive about acting in what it perceives to be its own best interest, and if that happens to include shouldering the burdens that other countries refuse to pick up, so be it. Besides, Bin Laden is about to get what he wanted anyway, American troops out of Saudi Arabia. Think he'll shut up and go away?