Dodge Increase Purchases From China
06-05-2006, 04:57 PM
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About 3 months ago, there was a news article I believe on CNN which profiled the chinese economy and their latest interest in the automotive market. The article said they plan to market Chinese made SUVs under a "new to the US brand". They profiled a vehicle that is on par with a loaded Lincoln Navigator that they plan to import and sell with a MSRP in the upper teens. The Big 3 were left without comment. Wait till they enter into the 3/4 and 1 ton markets.
Aint it funny how the first people to complain about cheap Chinese junk are the very one's who buy most of their stuff from Walmart?????? According to figures, if Walmart were a country, it would be China's 8th largest trading partner. How's that for a bit of perspective...
Nav
Aint it funny how the first people to complain about cheap Chinese junk are the very one's who buy most of their stuff from Walmart?????? According to figures, if Walmart were a country, it would be China's 8th largest trading partner. How's that for a bit of perspective...
Nav
06-05-2006, 06:31 PM
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[QUOTE=8mpg]
you gotta look at it from the supply side of the market...its totally different.
Lets put it this way. My parents own a donut shop.
Ok... a glazed donut is $.50. Now they have $.25 in labor/materials. Now if they could make the same donut CHEAPER... say $.20... why wouldnt they. They are there for profit, not to employee American workers. If my parents had to offer benefits to their 1 worker, the bakery would be bankrupt due to high costs of medical insurance.
So, when DC ships off their stuff to China to build, its cheaper for the company because they dont have to pay insurance for the workers. I was having a discussion today with my girlfriend and a girl she works with. They work for Allstate insurance. Their personal medical insurance SUCKS. Her friend pays $240/month for her and her daughter to be covered. She says the employeer pays 75% of the insurance each month. Thats $750/ employee that they have to pay for. You can see that adds up REALLY fast. 1000 employees x $750 a month = $750,000 a MONTH. So, they ship the jobs off and save .75 MILLION a month and give the Chinese the jobs.
I dunno about quality, I have never had a complaint about Chinese products breaking on me. I dont buy products because they are American built or Chinese/japanese built. I buy them based on reputation and price. Have Patriotism (sp?) but until you see hard evidence of a loss in product quality...why bash it? Why bash a company for trying to save their butts in the financial world. Look at GM...they are paying employees to quit because they cant afford them. That 10million a year that they can save on benefits can keep the company a float.
I totaly agree, the whole system needs to overhauled. But to buy anything that came from offshore,to me is like shooting yourself in the foot. It does our economy no good and it takes jobs away from the American worker. Just like the illegal immigerants.....they are here to do jobs that "Americans wont do". That is total BS ....the wage those people are paid, no American could afford to work for that.....thus lowering OUR standard of living. Now if you want to live three families to a house and share one car then that is a great deal, and that is where the American worker is headed. He cannot compete with foreign labor and maintain Our standard of living.
Jim
Originally Posted by dezeldog
you gotta look at it from the supply side of the market...its totally different.
Lets put it this way. My parents own a donut shop.
Ok... a glazed donut is $.50. Now they have $.25 in labor/materials. Now if they could make the same donut CHEAPER... say $.20... why wouldnt they. They are there for profit, not to employee American workers. If my parents had to offer benefits to their 1 worker, the bakery would be bankrupt due to high costs of medical insurance.
So, when DC ships off their stuff to China to build, its cheaper for the company because they dont have to pay insurance for the workers. I was having a discussion today with my girlfriend and a girl she works with. They work for Allstate insurance. Their personal medical insurance SUCKS. Her friend pays $240/month for her and her daughter to be covered. She says the employeer pays 75% of the insurance each month. Thats $750/ employee that they have to pay for. You can see that adds up REALLY fast. 1000 employees x $750 a month = $750,000 a MONTH. So, they ship the jobs off and save .75 MILLION a month and give the Chinese the jobs.
I dunno about quality, I have never had a complaint about Chinese products breaking on me. I dont buy products because they are American built or Chinese/japanese built. I buy them based on reputation and price. Have Patriotism (sp?) but until you see hard evidence of a loss in product quality...why bash it? Why bash a company for trying to save their butts in the financial world. Look at GM...they are paying employees to quit because they cant afford them. That 10million a year that they can save on benefits can keep the company a float.
Jim
06-05-2006, 07:43 PM
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[QUOTE=dezeldog]
I totaly agree, the whole system needs to overhauled. But to buy anything that came from offshore,to me is like shooting yourself in the foot. It does our economy no good and it takes jobs away from the American worker. Just like the illegal immigerants.....they are here to do jobs that "Americans wont do". That is total BS ....the wage those people are paid, no American could afford to work for that.....thus lowering OUR standard of living. Now if you want to live three families to a house and share one car then that is a great deal, and that is where the American worker is headed. He cannot compete with foreign labor and maintain Our standard of living.
Jim
Its a cycle no matter how you look at it... we pay more with US labor and people have jobs...yet we cannot afford the increase in costs which brings down sales. No matter how we look at it, its lose-lose. Id rather pay cheaper prices while losing.
Originally Posted by 8mpg
I totaly agree, the whole system needs to overhauled. But to buy anything that came from offshore,to me is like shooting yourself in the foot. It does our economy no good and it takes jobs away from the American worker. Just like the illegal immigerants.....they are here to do jobs that "Americans wont do". That is total BS ....the wage those people are paid, no American could afford to work for that.....thus lowering OUR standard of living. Now if you want to live three families to a house and share one car then that is a great deal, and that is where the American worker is headed. He cannot compete with foreign labor and maintain Our standard of living.
Jim
06-05-2006, 08:15 PM
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I'd rather pay higher prices that way Americans are working and my neighbors and their children and my family and my children have a future in the labor mkt in this country. That way we wouldn't have to live three familys to a house and drive one car. Its really tough to compete with third world wages any way you cut it. What the govt. needs to do is level the playing field. I take one of yours ....you take one of mine. Face it a $65 billion deficit with china is insane....unless you're corporate america then its a good thing.
Jim
Jim
06-05-2006, 08:18 PM
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At some point China will take over the position of the world's largest economy and replace the US at the top. They have 1b people to our 300m people. They have a very large country with untapped natural resources.
The problem they are currently having is 2/3 of the country lives in extreme poverty. Those we class as impoverished in the US live like kings in comparison. These people worry about the basics like their next meal and shelter. The eastern portion of the cournty is developing fairly rapidly (in the past 20 years) since they allowed some capitalism to emerge. The 2/3rds of the country on the western side still live in the dark ages with few modern conviences. At some point this class distinction may cause a revolution between the haves and have nots, but if they can avoid that they will emerge as the top economy.
China has done something rather intelligent. If you wish to sell your Dodge or HP or IBM product in China you have to setup a mfg facility in China (kind of like our import fees to protect the American workers!). By doing this, the Chinese get their people employed, trained in modern technology/methods, and they learn how to design and manufacture in a modern way. It is to a company's (like Chrysler) benefit to do this because the market in China is huge and will only get bigger. Obviously, the Chinese get a quick education on modern manufacturing and technology.
Right now the 2 highest priorities of the Chinese government are to get a reliable national power grid that is up to modern standards and the 2nd initative is a nationwide communication system.
The problem they are currently having is 2/3 of the country lives in extreme poverty. Those we class as impoverished in the US live like kings in comparison. These people worry about the basics like their next meal and shelter. The eastern portion of the cournty is developing fairly rapidly (in the past 20 years) since they allowed some capitalism to emerge. The 2/3rds of the country on the western side still live in the dark ages with few modern conviences. At some point this class distinction may cause a revolution between the haves and have nots, but if they can avoid that they will emerge as the top economy.
China has done something rather intelligent. If you wish to sell your Dodge or HP or IBM product in China you have to setup a mfg facility in China (kind of like our import fees to protect the American workers!). By doing this, the Chinese get their people employed, trained in modern technology/methods, and they learn how to design and manufacture in a modern way. It is to a company's (like Chrysler) benefit to do this because the market in China is huge and will only get bigger. Obviously, the Chinese get a quick education on modern manufacturing and technology.
Right now the 2 highest priorities of the Chinese government are to get a reliable national power grid that is up to modern standards and the 2nd initative is a nationwide communication system.
06-06-2006, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Nav
Aint it funny how the first people to complain about cheap Chinese junk are the very one's who buy most of their stuff from Walmart?????? According to figures, if Walmart were a country, it would be China's 8th largest trading partner. How's that for a bit of perspective...
Nav
Nav
I am not bashing the chinese or their ability to produce a product. My point is that the quality control in this situation is quite lax, the quality of the materials being used are inferior due to a lack of quality control in their production.
With all the problems that Dodge is currently having with keeping their product on the road already, why would they switch to an inferior product that will only result in more issues, warranty claims and court cases?
Or is it because they have gotten so good at deneying warranty and placing the blame on the customer that they are not concerned with the increased warranty claims?
06-06-2006, 02:32 PM
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Yeah I guess 'ol Rusty did get me pretty good However my truck has an American made motor and that is the only reason I bought it.The problem I have with our asian trade partners is it seem to me that it is pretty one sided. Which doesn't seem to be the case with our the european trade mkt.
Jim
However my truck has an American made motor and that is the only reason I bought it.The problem I have with our asian trade partners is it seem to me that it is pretty one sided. Which doesn't seem to be the case with our the european trade mkt.Jim
06-06-2006, 02:39 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Nav
About 3 months ago, there was a news article I believe on CNN which profiled the chinese economy and their latest interest in the automotive market. The article said they plan to market Chinese made SUVs under a "new to the US brand". They profiled a vehicle that is on par with a loaded Lincoln Navigator that they plan to import and sell with a MSRP in the upper teens. The Big 3 were left without comment. Wait till they enter into the 3/4 and 1 ton markets.
Nav
Nav
That's good though, this way we'll have even more expendable to give to energy companies, big oil and the government.
06-06-2006, 02:41 PM
#26
Originally Posted by dezeldog
Yeah I guess 'ol Rusty did get me pretty good However my truck has an American made motor and that is the only reason I bought it.The problem I have with our asian trade partners is it seem to me that it is pretty one sided. Which doesn't seem to be the case with our the european trade mkt.
Jim
However my truck has an American made motor and that is the only reason I bought it.The problem I have with our asian trade partners is it seem to me that it is pretty one sided. Which doesn't seem to be the case with our the european trade mkt.Jim
06-06-2006, 07:56 PM
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Never stepped foot in a Wal-Mart, never will. Price concessions=companies looking for cheap (offshore) labor. Like I have said from day one, the country would be better off to boycott every Wal-Mart in the country. The parking lot continues to be full. People tell me "I can't afford to shop anywhere else" and I say precisely the reason not to shop there. You can't afford it because your $20 an hour RCA Television job was given to someone last year that will do it for $.20 an hour, but you can run to Wal-Mart and buy a RCA Television for $80 now. So I tell them to keep it up and their children will not even be able to afford to shop at Wal-Mart.
06-06-2006, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by powerchokeater
Never stepped foot in a Wal-Mart, never will. Price concessions=companies looking for cheap (offshore) labor. Like I have said from day one, the country would be better off to boycott every Wal-Mart in the country. The parking lot continues to be full. People tell me "I can't afford to shop anywhere else" and I say precisely the reason not to shop there. You can't afford it because your $20 an hour RCA Television job was given to someone last year that will do it for $.20 an hour, but you can run to Wal-Mart and buy a RCA Television for $80 now. So I tell them to keep it up and their children will not even be able to afford to shop at Wal-Mart.
sorry to our union members but why do you think the jobs have moved to mexico? i grew up in detroit in the 50s and 60s and saw what was once a great industry. the imports came in at lower prices (non union) and workers that would get fired if they screwed up (non union). if you think i am wrong then tour detroit or flint and see what the cities looks like. our trucks are made in mexico and if those workers fu-k up they get fired. both of my CTDs have been assembled in old mexico and i have no complaints.
america will shop where the prices are the best!
these chinese suvs could very well go the way of the yugos. time will tell but i will also say this i love american and will never drive anything again other than my CTD.
God bless the USA
06-06-2006, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dhe9
.20 cents per hour? another good reason to get the illegals out of this country and as far as walmart, it is non union and that is much of the reason prices are cheaper.
sorry to our union members but why do you think the jobs have moved to mexico? i grew up in detroit in the 50s and 60s and saw what was once a great industry. the imports came in at lower prices (non union) and workers that would get fired if they screwed up (non union). if you think i am wrong then tour detroit or flint and see what the cities looks like. our trucks are made in mexico and if those workers fu-k up they get fired. both of my CTDs have been assembled in old mexico and i have no complaints.
america will shop where the prices are the best!
these chinese suvs could very well go the way of the yugos. time will tell but i will also say this i love american and will never drive anything again other than my CTD.
God bless the USA
sorry to our union members but why do you think the jobs have moved to mexico? i grew up in detroit in the 50s and 60s and saw what was once a great industry. the imports came in at lower prices (non union) and workers that would get fired if they screwed up (non union). if you think i am wrong then tour detroit or flint and see what the cities looks like. our trucks are made in mexico and if those workers fu-k up they get fired. both of my CTDs have been assembled in old mexico and i have no complaints.
america will shop where the prices are the best!
these chinese suvs could very well go the way of the yugos. time will tell but i will also say this i love american and will never drive anything again other than my CTD.
God bless the USA
I will say this about the unions. Everything that the working man in this country has today, white collar or blue, union or non union, is the direct result of the UNIONS. I am talking about insurance, pension,overtime pay and even a vacation. Why they even got everybody a national holiday....Labor Day. Now I ask, what has our oriental trade partners done for you lately. Now if you want to work in one of those factories in mexico or china, for those poverty wages,that you think is so wonderful, then so be it, but I don't see where a wage reduction of any kind is anygood in this country.
Jim