Dealer Fraud/Mfg? - 04 SO 235 in Mass. not 600... Help!
12-05-2004, 06:44 PM
#16
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hate to burst your bubble but if the sticker does not say 600 then unfortunately you are out of luck. buyer beware and all that. but take heart, your so can be pumped up to out doo a 600. what you want is the 48 re and all is well. we all make mistakes and unfortunately you trusted a dealer who is out to make sales and probably does not know a hemi from a cummins.
tim
tim
12-05-2004, 09:16 PM
#17
Originally posted by Kyle Graham
you should ask permission from jack thorpe to post dealer's name on a post just so everyone knows how they do business I don't know what the rules are to this maybe at least a location city and state
you should ask permission from jack thorpe to post dealer's name on a post just so everyone knows how they do business I don't know what the rules are to this maybe at least a location city and state
Posting dealer names on things like this will only result in getting the post removed.Thanks Kingston
12-06-2004, 07:12 AM
#18
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Engine Options
Originally posted by Bertram65
I have been to numerous dealers recently looking for a CTD for my sister, they all had both '04s, with the 235HP motor, and '04s, though you could call it a '04.5 with the 325HP motor. They all acted confused and stupified when I asked if they would sell the '04s with the 235HP motor cheaper, my sister does not care she wants it to tow horses and drive to the barn.
I think your only issue is the dealer told you it was a 325HP and it is not, chances are the sales person who told you did not even know there was a new more powerfull motor available. It is not Dodge's fault for changeing mid year, to them there is no difference between the trucks from a marketing or incentive perspective, we are in one of the lame states with the enhanced emmisions, every other state for the most part was selling HOs and the new motor was not that much of an inprovement. I would go after the dealer but I doubt it will work out for you, easy to say now but you should have checked the engine data plate when you bought it, around here 9 out out of 10 diesels they sell the customer has no idea about the new motor, and sadly most of the sales team has no idea either. What dealer was it by the way?
I have been to numerous dealers recently looking for a CTD for my sister, they all had both '04s, with the 235HP motor, and '04s, though you could call it a '04.5 with the 325HP motor. They all acted confused and stupified when I asked if they would sell the '04s with the 235HP motor cheaper, my sister does not care she wants it to tow horses and drive to the barn.
I think your only issue is the dealer told you it was a 325HP and it is not, chances are the sales person who told you did not even know there was a new more powerfull motor available. It is not Dodge's fault for changeing mid year, to them there is no difference between the trucks from a marketing or incentive perspective, we are in one of the lame states with the enhanced emmisions, every other state for the most part was selling HOs and the new motor was not that much of an inprovement. I would go after the dealer but I doubt it will work out for you, easy to say now but you should have checked the engine data plate when you bought it, around here 9 out out of 10 diesels they sell the customer has no idea about the new motor, and sadly most of the sales team has no idea either. What dealer was it by the way?
12-06-2004, 08:04 AM
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I believe the BBB would be able to help you, First you need to contact the "Owner" of the Dealership or his Secretary directly ... you can find this information out through the State Corporation's Secretary of State should be on line somewhere. Then call them and get there FAX number again for the Owner and write him a "Nice" letter explaning the problem and what you're expectations are and asking him what he can do? Keep the letter nice as it could be evidence in the future ... always document everything day time and who you talked to. When they see your all documentation they will know you are not kidding on the issue! If all this fails you have all the paperwork to back up your position and what you tried to do to fix it with the owner ... remember be "Nice" or you will have another problem it's called "Attorney Fees".
Meanwhile I wouldn't drive the truck keep it as new as possible showing you don't want it ... or offer paying them for the mileage you racked up. Do not threaten the Owner in the beginning, remember he dosen't need the problem either it will get fixed if your persistent daily. If your sure they will do nothing then take all the info to the local BBB and file a complaint, I believe they will mediate it with you and them but they don't want the bad press. Stay Cool, Document good records, and Press On .... Good Luck!
Meanwhile I wouldn't drive the truck keep it as new as possible showing you don't want it ... or offer paying them for the mileage you racked up. Do not threaten the Owner in the beginning, remember he dosen't need the problem either it will get fixed if your persistent daily. If your sure they will do nothing then take all the info to the local BBB and file a complaint, I believe they will mediate it with you and them but they don't want the bad press. Stay Cool, Document good records, and Press On .... Good Luck!
12-06-2004, 08:18 AM
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Re: Engine Options
Originally posted by OT-OF-Here
I think if you'll check it out your dealer couldn't sell you the HO for '04 in MA. I believe it is like Calif., in that they had to sell you the SO. You could have gotten the 600 which was the 04.5 but if you got the '04 version then SO was it. I believe that is a State Reg. for MA. If you specifically asked for the 600 and didn't get it then I hope you have paperwork stating such or have a witness or your s........d.
I think if you'll check it out your dealer couldn't sell you the HO for '04 in MA. I believe it is like Calif., in that they had to sell you the SO. You could have gotten the 600 which was the 04.5 but if you got the '04 version then SO was it. I believe that is a State Reg. for MA. If you specifically asked for the 600 and didn't get it then I hope you have paperwork stating such or have a witness or your s........d.
12-06-2004, 08:22 AM
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If you bought the truck in August and discovered the engine 4 days latter why wait till now to post about it? You should have parked the truck and stopped driving it then, or just parked it back at the dealer and left it there, how many miles on it now?
12-06-2004, 10:21 AM
#24
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Propinc,
Thanks for the solid advice. I wish that I would have had it before retaing a lawyer. You are right they only create massive and often unrecoverable expenses. In MA they award up to treble (triple) damages and fees. This is still little incentive to pursue a dealer who wronged you. It requires that you finance the entire legal tab until you win. Furthermore, if you financed the vehicle, it is likely that in the fine print of the financing contract you forfeited your right to sue and instead supplanted it with arbitration outside of the courts. The bit about not using the vehicle has been a tough one to swallow. I've heard it from two lawyers, one an expert on consumer law. In my mind it goes something like this... Sure I do not want the vehicle, but presently it is the only one I have and short of shelling out more cash for a rental, buying a bike and one of those cute little helmets, commuting on my Polaris Sportsman, or walking it is really my only option. I like most folks am not in a position to park the brand new $40K+ truck while making the payments, fund a legal battle against a scumbag dealer who was either incompetent or a thief and fund alternative 3/4 ton 4x4 qc diesel transportation. I did call hertz and they do not rent anything with a cummins and if they did I could not tow with it as this is in violation of every auto rental contract that I've seen here in MA. The thing that really stinks, is that I really did do my home work and still got taken. I did not know to look on the side of the engine cover. Had I, I would have known. Perhaps I should build a website dedicated to the identificaton of authentic Cummins 600s.
Thanks again for the good advise!
Thanks for the solid advice. I wish that I would have had it before retaing a lawyer. You are right they only create massive and often unrecoverable expenses. In MA they award up to treble (triple) damages and fees. This is still little incentive to pursue a dealer who wronged you. It requires that you finance the entire legal tab until you win. Furthermore, if you financed the vehicle, it is likely that in the fine print of the financing contract you forfeited your right to sue and instead supplanted it with arbitration outside of the courts. The bit about not using the vehicle has been a tough one to swallow. I've heard it from two lawyers, one an expert on consumer law. In my mind it goes something like this... Sure I do not want the vehicle, but presently it is the only one I have and short of shelling out more cash for a rental, buying a bike and one of those cute little helmets, commuting on my Polaris Sportsman, or walking it is really my only option. I like most folks am not in a position to park the brand new $40K+ truck while making the payments, fund a legal battle against a scumbag dealer who was either incompetent or a thief and fund alternative 3/4 ton 4x4 qc diesel transportation. I did call hertz and they do not rent anything with a cummins and if they did I could not tow with it as this is in violation of every auto rental contract that I've seen here in MA. The thing that really stinks, is that I really did do my home work and still got taken. I did not know to look on the side of the engine cover. Had I, I would have known. Perhaps I should build a website dedicated to the identificaton of authentic Cummins 600s.
Thanks again for the good advise!
12-06-2004, 01:11 PM
#25
Where it's been 4 months now....
And unless you've parked the truck and not driven it, you're likely to be SOL.
It would be incumbent on you to contact the dealer IMMEDIATELY when you discovered it. But it's 4 months now and how many miles?
Man, I don't want to be on the dealership side and I'm not. I wouldn't buy ANYTHING that the dealer says about not knowing. It's their JOB to know. They should AT LEAST be able to spout vehicle options (including powerplants).
Lastly, if you can prove that you SPECIFICALLY asked about the engine on the truck you bought (witnesses would help here), then you might have a chance. Merely saying that you told them what you wanted I don't think will be enough. You may have more luck claiming "bait and switch" which the BBB WOULD like to hear about.
It would be incumbent on you to contact the dealer IMMEDIATELY when you discovered it. But it's 4 months now and how many miles?
Man, I don't want to be on the dealership side and I'm not. I wouldn't buy ANYTHING that the dealer says about not knowing. It's their JOB to know. They should AT LEAST be able to spout vehicle options (including powerplants).
Lastly, if you can prove that you SPECIFICALLY asked about the engine on the truck you bought (witnesses would help here), then you might have a chance. Merely saying that you told them what you wanted I don't think will be enough. You may have more luck claiming "bait and switch" which the BBB WOULD like to hear about.
12-06-2004, 02:34 PM
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Finally, I would like to add that I have settled part of my claim with the dealer, the part concerning their misrepresenting the vehicle. In the end... after legal fees, it was nearly a wash. There are 5 additional 93A violations that have not been settled. I have also decided to go after Daimler Chrysler for their part in this. The bottom line is that these practices are wrong, we all are aware of the diffuculties inherent in automobile purchases-- evidence for this is in all those posts, which suggest proceeding very cautiously when dealing with automobile dealers. The world does not have to be like this and I am not going to lay down. Ultimately, what I am doing is for all of us. I like so many others went to a dealer asked for a specific vehicle and was dupped into something else. This is wrong. Both the dealer and I know that it is my word against theirs (and the word of the a reporter friend who happened to be with me on one of my visits to the dealership). He writes for the largest paper in New England and would really like to be left out of this, but never the less, he was there and they know he was there. Their specific response to my initial questions about the vehicles equipment (ie. the axle gear ratio, and Cummins was faxed to me in writing. And in the end even if it were my word against theirs, Who would you believe. How many of you have I cheated or lied to, none of you, I'm pretty credible. One the other hand how many of you have been cheated, dupped, or found yourself in the middle of web of games at a car dealership or at least known someone who has. How many of you would let your mother, wife or sister go into a car dealership alone. If you wouldn't, why wouldn't you. We all know the answer to these questions. The dealer knows these things. They know who they are and they know who they are accused of being. So, whether my dealer recalls their fax or my reporter friend, I do not know, but, they offered a settlement. Had, I had more time, patients, and money I would not have accepted it and would have taken them to court. I did in part because I knew I still had 5 additional 93A violations in my pocket and claims against Daimler Chrysler. But really, I had dropped this about 1 month ago. It was only when I read the post by Gonzy entitled "engine question" that I thought I should speak out. It seems that Gonzy found himself in a similar situation right here in MA. Someone said that we have all made mistakes and been taken... You know what, that does not make it right. If it did it would be a license for retailers to prey on consumers. Waiting at bay for one who is not at their best, for someone a little too kind and trusting, etc... We do not have to accept this. So if this happene to you, I'd love o hear about it.
Thanks again for your advice and support.
Thanks again for your advice and support.
12-06-2004, 04:04 PM
#28
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Kingston,
Next time you are in the market for a truck, request from the dealer a 'build out' list based on the VIN# of the truck you are interested in. This list details every option that is in the truck as it rolled off the assembly line. Saves any guess work on your part and prevents any mistruths by the dealer/salesman.
Next time you are in the market for a truck, request from the dealer a 'build out' list based on the VIN# of the truck you are interested in. This list details every option that is in the truck as it rolled off the assembly line. Saves any guess work on your part and prevents any mistruths by the dealer/salesman.
12-06-2004, 05:09 PM
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No one is going to like this reponse, so flame me if you want, but I am sick of frivilous lawsuits and no one wanting to take responsability for thier actions.
It's too bad what happened, but you knew before you bought the truck that they had just switched engines in MA, you joined here before you bought it, if you were so concerned with getting a 600 you should have found out how to verify what engine it had before you bought it. That has been covered a hundred times on here.
In the end it seems like a lot of agravation for nothing, you still have the truck, and you said it was a wash between lawer fees and what the dealership settled on. I doubt the dealer has changed any practices or how they represent thier product. And as far as doing this for all of us, frivilous lawsuits only drive up the cost of products when companies have to defend themselves and carry insurance to protect themselves against them. If it was me I would have chauked it up to the dealer putting one over on me and tried to make sure it did not happen again, in the end you are the buyer no one forced you to buy the truck.
Flame suit on.
It's too bad what happened, but you knew before you bought the truck that they had just switched engines in MA, you joined here before you bought it, if you were so concerned with getting a 600 you should have found out how to verify what engine it had before you bought it. That has been covered a hundred times on here.
In the end it seems like a lot of agravation for nothing, you still have the truck, and you said it was a wash between lawer fees and what the dealership settled on. I doubt the dealer has changed any practices or how they represent thier product. And as far as doing this for all of us, frivilous lawsuits only drive up the cost of products when companies have to defend themselves and carry insurance to protect themselves against them. If it was me I would have chauked it up to the dealer putting one over on me and tried to make sure it did not happen again, in the end you are the buyer no one forced you to buy the truck.
Flame suit on.
12-06-2004, 05:34 PM
#30
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Originally posted by Bertram65
No one is going to like this reponse, so flame me if you want, but I am sick of frivilous lawsuits and no one wanting to take responsability for thier actions.
No one is going to like this reponse, so flame me if you want, but I am sick of frivilous lawsuits and no one wanting to take responsability for thier actions.