pepperoni

Wow. Interesting stuff. So, what's the best way to order a new truck then or buy from stock? Are you saying there's $1200 to play with on all trucks even if the selling price is "at invoice"? I just don't understand all the unknown back-door stuff yet and I obviously want a fair deal.

John

Soon2BDiesel

In Portland right now you can get a 03 3500 HO QC SLT 4 x 4 for $32,000 . A regular 2500 SLT QC CTD 4 x 4 for $30,000 or a 2500 SL QC CTD 4 x 4 for $27,000. All are with rebate included. How do these prices compare with others??? ??? I'm looking to buy within the next 3 months.

John

doug

Prices for the 04s, that is MSRP and invoice, are about the same. The advantage in picking up an 03 is the $2,500 price incentive from Dodge. this incentive has been extended and now expires September 2. There are no incentives announced for the 04 trucks at this time.

Especially for the remaining 03's, which both the dealer and DC are trying to unload, you should simply bargin from invoice price. forget about MSRP - discount, or even some quoted price which you have no idea how much profit is built into. you should be able to make a deal at or near invoice, take the $2500 from DC yourself (don't yield this to the dealer) and both you and the Dealer should be happy -- he gets $1000 or so in holdback (he really does get all of this back from DC, as consignment costs are already committed and unrelated to this), AND he gets to unload is inventory and stop the bleeding of the consignment interest.

pepperoni

Thanks Doug,
I think I'm starting to figure this out. How do you find out what the true invoice price is though? Is the information at autos.msn.com accurate, or do you need to have the dealership show you?

John,
Which Portland dealership is this? Those numbers look pretty good. Although, I'd need to pay 8.6% sales tax when I register it in WA.

Thanks.
John

doug

I can't vouch for the accuracy of publically available invoice pricing, but I have used Edmunds new car prices (bookstore) before. do your homework and gather up both MSRP and invoice prices for all the options you want. then go compare with the actual sticker. you'll find that all the options will have the same discount structure so you can infer invoice price very accurately. Also remember that invoice price will include some fuel, customer mailing, and some other hocus pocus.

you can ask the sales person if they will deal from invoice and if they will show you the invoice. a deal at or near invoice still gives the dealer some room to make expenses and a small profit.

Jonesey

Invoice is MSRP less 10.5%. This will get you real close.

Crabjoe

[quote author=jsr21 link=board=17;threadid=17845;start=0#msg167924 date=1060012126]
I think Crabjoe is saying he still got his choice of rebate or low % financing....BTW, is there really 1200 holdback in a Ram HD? Luke?..I'm a Canadian dealer and ours only have 700 HB
[/quote]

jsr21 is correct o mundo! The dealer was offering me my choice of incentive so he gave me his rock bottom price without any rebates calculated in.


BTW, does anyone know if there will be any rebates on the '04 if one was on the lot before 9/2?

Thanks!!

doug

The rebates are tied to the customer delivery date (when you take posession of the vehicle and sign everything in the business office). They don't depend on build date or delivery to the dealer.

There are no rebates at this time for the 04s, which I expect applies to any truck you drive home during the month of August. I'm not sure DC would announce something mid month, so my guess is that September is the next opportunity to announce an incentive. In other words, we should check to see if they decide to expire the 03's incentive and introduce an 04, or what.

Soon2BDiesel

Pepperoni
Sense my last comment I have seen prices for $1000 less than posted.
Town & Country Dodge ( T&C) and Ron Tonkin Dodge.
T&C Dodge came with more options like trailer tow, tu-tone,anti-spin,flat load floor,power package & more.

John

Luke S

"he gets $1000 or so in holdback (he really does get all of this back from DC, as consignment costs are already committed and unrelated to this),"

Doug, your right, we do get the holdback from DC when we sell the truck. However, we still have to pay DC interest for everyday that vehicle sat on our lot. On these $40,000 HD's it can be as much as $10-12 a day. And if you average out the whole inventory we usually don't break even on the holdback vs. interest.

"The rebates are tied to the customer delivery date (when you take posession of the vehicle and sign everything in the business office). They don't depend on build date or delivery to the dealer."

This statement is not exactly true. If you order a truck, and there is say a $1,000 rebate when you order, but when your truck arrive's it's only $500, you still get $1,000. However, if it goes up, you get the highest of the two. Also, you must take delivery of the truck within five working days of when it was delivered or that deal is off.

doug

thanks for those clarifications. I didn't mean to downplay the consignment or interest piece (not sure if you use the term consignment or not). I was only trying to point out that the holdback is not "gone" at sell time, even though the dealership might already be in the "hole" so to speak on the vehicle because of the interest. Thanks for speaking to that.

And I don't mean to imply expertise here -- I have an unusually frank and open relationship with my Dealer GM and so as a customer I probably have deeper insights than most. Its great to have you here on the forum to help with the reality checks, so thanks indeed for your participation.

The interest/holdback discussion really does help to highlight some of the business realities. That is, I sense that Dealers would not be very profitable if all they did was sell new vehicles at or near invoice. That said, it also highlights that there are other revenue sources, such as used car trades, accessories, service, etc. I guess thats why I'm an advocate of establishing a dealer relationship -- when a dealer gives me a favorable price on a vehicle which I know will bring him little net profit, I (just me personally) feel more compelled to use that dealer for all the other services and that the dealership has "earned" so to speak my future business.

and thanks for the additional information on the incentives rules. I didn't know about the 5 day policy -- so let me ask you in regards to that: you're saying that from the moment the new truck hits the dealer lot, the customer is now at the mercy of the dealer prep and sales processes, not to mention the condition of the vehicle sitting on the delivery truck, in order to see the incentive? wow, no wonder there is pressure on the customer to take delivery. I would be inclined to refuse delivery if something isn't right because I want to take delivery of a new vehicle, not a used one. So what if something was wrong with the vehicle and the dealership couldn't fix it within the 5 days?

Related to this: by what standard is the vehicle considered acceptable for delivery? The customer has to drive and accept the vehicle, and if s/he finds someting wrong, what recourse is there to follow, given the 5 day rule for incentives? A list I suppose. The enemy I would shoot at is this: the customer would be pressured into taking delivery, because the dealership has no interest in the incentives and needs to recover the holdback, close the sale, and move on. so the customer is asked to accept the vehicle on the basis that the warranty would cover anything. There is no Do List that must be completed before delivery -- the customer must take the vehicle in as-is, and then bring it in for service just as if it was a year old. The customer is out his money, but doesnt' have a new vehicle.

Certain issues like cosmetics will very quickly become hard to validate, and the used-car / service relationship begins prematurely. All the more argument to have a good relationship with the dealer, and especially the service guys!