pepperoni

I have a question for the folks who have traveled to ID and bought from Dave Smith Motors. I'm from the Seattle area and have been told the place to go to buy new is Dave Smith in ID.

The question I have is, how much hassle do you go through with "local" dealers if you need service or warranty work? I'd like to buy local, but nobody can touch Dave Smith's pricing. I hear they have a airport shuttle from Spokane that brings you to the dealer. Seems like a pretty neat service.

Thanks.
John

joel

I've called DS a couple of times and have not been impressed with their pricing. Check out Burlington Dodge/Karmart up in Burlington, near Mt. Vernon. You can go through their fleet department and with no hassles go $59 over invoice - and you get the rebates on top of that. If you work a little harder (maybe not there, but other dealers will) you can go even a little under invoice.

I got mine from them and had good service when I needed it and generally think they are a good dealership. And a lot closer than ID!

doug

I'd have to 2nd Joels comments wrt the perceived DS advantage. Maybe its a regional or otherwise local thing (and its certainly personal preference), but I find no advantages and all disadvantages in going with Dave Smith. Really. there is not one solitary reason in favor of doing so, in my opinion and consdering what's important to me. Here's why:

1. I find that I really do value the relationship with a local dealer. Those that are lucky enough to have such a dealer and foster a relationship with them will know what I mean. I deal with vendor relationships all the time in my profession, and find that my dealer will almost spit nickles for me now because they know me and consider me a valuable customer. Yet they've hardly made a pittance in profit from me on the bottom line from my new vehicle purchase.

2. DS Dodge has a very scary approach to trailer hitches in my opinion. First, they don't put on factory hitches on their trucks -- they order them in w/o the hitch and then install after market parts. thats ok, but its more back-end $$ for them, and potentially more expensive for you if you do it after market. that means no factory wiring, too. Furthermore, they DRILL HOLES INTO THE NEW FRAMES FOR 5TH WHEEL HITCH INSTALLS. Sure, its just a hole in the upper frame wall and not all the way through, but I'm sorry, no way jose' for me, baby. any question on frame integrity and your warranty protection is just shot to pieces. You CAN get a NO DRILL hitch solution and preserve your frame warranty. I am definately not my own warranty station when it comes to the frame!

3. Their price isn't anything to write home about. nearly $300 over invoice, including doc fees, all for perhaps 30-60 minutes on the phone and then bye-bye-for-now. Their making an absolute killing. I didn't pay that much for my 02, and that was from a full service dealer (Peterson Stampede Nampa ID) with whom I have had great success, both from a sales and from a service perspective.

4. reality of service. Sure, if you want a 'completely by the book', experience, yes -- you can take your DS truck to any dealer and they have to service it. and yes, you can complain to DC if they don't and all of that. But in reality, what I really want is to know the service manager and service writer(s), to be able to talk about TSBs, the nature of the repair, why something failed, and all of that. That takes relationship building, including the service manager's knowlege that you bought the vehicle from them. Remember that the dealer service manager has some authority to make warranty coverage decisions, and to represent you if your warranty stance is marginal or fuzzy. Find a good dealer and get to know the service manager!

I will say this much -- I would never have been able to trade up from 02 to 04 were it not for (a) having bought my 02 at Peterson in the first place (b) Peterson having serviced it from day 1 except for oil and fuel filter changes which I do my self, (c) a strong relationship with the service manager who has bent over backwards for me on more than one occasion, and (d) a strong relationship with the dealer GM who has also bent over backwards for me.

you're probably thinking I have had a 100% fabulous, perhaps unreal experience with my dealership. not so. they've made a few mistakes that I thought were uncalled for, and I've had to be w/o my truck when I shouldn't have had to. Once, the service writer got chewed out in my hearing by the service manager for not following up on a repair to make sure it was complete before giving the truck back to me. but you know what? humans make mistakes and I always go back to the same service writer because he knows me and my truck, and understands the details that are important to me.

I like having a service manger who is straight-up with me, listens to and appreciates my questions and comments, and welcomes me into his office to talk about AA axles, mild fueling boxes, or just a recent TSB. I also like having a service writer who tells me he likes working with me and demonstrates that by the way he orchestrates my service, a GM who recognizes me, wants my business and isn't expecting me to post this, on and on and on. I also know the parts manager, the sales manager, the new-car ordering guy, the finance guy, etc. I think its great.

well, guess what happend when I decided to trade my 02 in for an 04? the service guys were able to vouch for me and my truck, how I take care of it and its history. I got more in trade than I could sell it for myself. benefits of a good relationship with the service department.

Do I think Dave Smith should still be there? absolutely. it keeps real dealers (those who care) honest! And for the informed buyer who just wants to buy a truck w/o the whole dealer relatioship/negotiation stuff, DS is a great option. I've just found that with Petersons, I can have my cake and eat it too. just my $.02.

pepperoni

Doug,
Thanks for your comments. I understand completely. I'm ALL FOR buying local. I work for a manufacturer that has retail stores all across the country. We don't sell direct, so all the sales and service is done through the retail network. I've heard lots of stories about the guy that drives 150 miles away from the local retailer just to save a few bucks. Then when he needs service he contacts the local store. They'll take care of him under warranty and all, but they sure won't make him a priority, and depending on the situation, they might even make it difficult for the guy. We don't condone this type of behavior, but it's just the way things work unfortunately.

When we're ready to buy this spring, we'll shop the locals and see what they have to offer. Price is obviously a big factor, but so are future service headaches I'd rather not deal with.

John

SpeedsterPaul

I just bought my truck from Karmart Dodge in Burlington last week. I shopped at about 8 dealers including Dave Smith before deciding on Karmart.
Dave Smith's prices while low and relatively hassle free can be beaten. The lower sales tax rate in Burlington saved me about 375$ alone over what I would have paid at Dave Smith.
I dealt with the Fleet Manager, Dennis Larson. All negotiations were done over the phone and I met him for the first time when he delivered my truck to me.
All in all my experience was great, no hassle, no disrespect and a great price.

Oh, and by the way, lovin every minute of driving my first CTD

Paul Hanson
P.S. I am not affiliated with Karmart Dodge in any way.

c5racer

Lynnwood Dodge offered to sell me one for invoice over the internet.

Luke S

Well, I cant speak for all dealers, but I can tell you my feelings on the issue. Of course I like to keep all the local customers I can, but if somebody actually beats me on price(they usually don't) I dont mind servicing a vehicle that has been bought someplace else. It is just more money in our pocket. Now, that said, when a local customer doesn't even price me, and then brings a car in for service, we get aggitated. We will still service their vehicle, but it will not have the priorty our customers vehicles have.

RJS

I have a friend who's bought several rigs from Dave Smith Motors and was quite impressed. So, I gave them a try. They were $740 over invoice. Not hard to beat that deal. I bought mine locally (well, 110 miles away which is local here in Wyoming) and got a much better deal.

Bob

Crabjoe

I stopped by a local dealer here in MD and was offered $280 below invoice on any HD ram on the lot or ordered. There was no negotiating.. It was basicly, here's our price, take it or leave it. The price did not include any rebates so I still have my choice on which way I want to go.

I wouldn't even think about going out of state for a vehicle unless it was within an hours drive from me. The way I look at it is that if one dealer can do it, so can any other. I doubt a dealer is going to make it worth my wild to pick one up out of state.

doug

well, 280 below invoice could be highway robbery, depending on the rebate package. I mean, last month DC was offering 2500 rebate, so in your case the dealer would get that, plus the ~ $1,200 hold back. $3,420 profit per vehicle!

jsr21

I think Crabjoe is saying he still got his choice of rebate or low % financing....BTW, is there really 1200 holdback in a Ram HD? Luke?..I'm a Canadian dealer and ours only have 700 HB

Luke S

JSR21, for example, the truck I am driving right now listed for about $42,500, and had about $1,250 holdback.

What you guys dont realize about holdback is that we dont really consider that profit. You see, we have to pay interest on all of the new vehicles on our lot, at a rate of about 1% per month. If a vehicle sits on out lot more than 90 days the holdback is gone. And the ones that do move fast the holdback goes to offset the interest on the vehicles that have been here for a year(I have several of those). At the end of the year, we are darn lucky if we break even on the holdback vs. interest.

jsr21

Luke..I do realize that. My forecasted expenses are around 1240 per new unit retailed...a lot of people do not realize the expenses of doing business....the biggest holdback we have is 700, unless you count the acr viper we had @ 1200

doug

good points re: interest. this is $$ that goes back to DC and represents cost of inventory (like a consignment cost), right?

So for special order vehicles with zero inventory time, it's appropriate to consdier the 3% holdback as dealer profit.

While I definately am sensitivve to the cost of doing business, and have no problem with the concept of holdback and inventory costs offsetting each other, I (at the same time) don't feel responsible for inventory mismanagement.

As long as we're being complete about the cash flow variables, what about volume incentives or other perks to the dealer?

jsr21

There are far more expenses than just interest. Inventory maintenence, gas, advertising, insurance, goodwill policy, support staff wages, electricity, water, heat, commisions, donations, taxes, workers compensation, medical, and on and on. Our holdback on a HD is 700 bannanas, so if we sold one for 540 over invoice, with a forecasted expense of 1240 per unit, we would be even steve. I dunno about USA dealers, but if we hit 100% of our quota by DC(called MSA), we get an extra 125 per unit.