Geico266

Iran next yes, and we have several bases close by...

Geico266

Can't be Top! Since Al Qaeda is the group that attacked us on 9/11 there can't be other groups out there that wish us harm. According to the lefty liberals we have to wait until they kill 3-5 thousands American BEFORE we can call them terrorists. How would we know they are planning against us? Because of the proposed BAN on wire tapping we just have to wait until they strike. Why they have rights too! They have the right to build an attonic bomb and light it off in Chicago. We would NEVER want to impeed their rights to self expression.

While everyone is crying civial rights violations there are groups planning a nuclear attack on us or our allies as we speak. When they get the bomb they WILL use it.

P.J

Iran is next, some even wonder if we are still hanging out there JUST to be close by when Israel begins maneuvering on them.

Only difference here is that Iran is not going to lay down, they have good backing by China who has no real use for us except for selling Wal-Mart a billion of so a year in goods.

Israel & US vs. Iran and whomever they have support from is going to be a serious bloody mess.

I think once we loose 10 to 20 thousand in that region we'll step back and see what we think has been accomplished. We will be any safer? Of course some will say if we hadn't done all of this we'd all be dead (nuked) or living under Islamic rule and forced into slavery in a poppy field.
And then, if it blows up in G.W's face those same people will still sit back and say "Well, if he hadn't done it, everyone would have condemned him for not doing enough!" Give me a break. The man does NO wrong in 47% of America eye's??? He could take a dump on Geico's lawn the guy would praise him for the free fertilizer, clean it up and then lie to everyone that asked him about it by saying it never happened.
I want freedom; I want me and my family to be safe and sound. But, I also want a government that is ACCOUNTABLE, have yet to see that.

Only time will tell.

Begle1

I am not a terrorist. I do have rights. Geico is not a terrorist. And he has rights. You are not a terrorist. And you have rights.

Do you know how an immensly powerful and popular democracy fails? It kills itself. Every democracy in the history of the world has either been crushed by invaders, which will not happen to us, or has committed suicide by sacrificing liberty for what they feel is security. And most shockingly of all, democratic suicide is always populary supported. After all, a democracy cannot remove its own rights without popular consensus.

**** Germany is a great example of this. Hitler and his legions of ****'s led the majority of people in the country to believe that Al-Qaeda, err I mean the Jews, were planning to kill and enslave all of them and overthrow their democratic government. And then Hitler framed a terrorist attack on the capital, and what happened? Millions of Germans immediatly shouted "Save our country, Father Adolf!" and a dictator rose out of the ashes of the German constitution, all to public support. Hitler then began to remove the liberties of the Jews, to public support. After all, those Jews are trying to kill them. And then he started removing liberties of the Catholics, who were also dangers to the government. And then he removed the liberties of the union workers and other capitalists, who were obviously dangerous to the German economy. And then he attacked Jehovah's Witnesses, and Catholics, and Protestants, and everybody devout with a religion, and then he attacked those of us with racial backgrounds, with half of the European countries being considered "racial backgrounds". And then he attacked those people with family in other countries. In short, the Germans in the 1930's made the same decision you are making now; they sacrificed liberty and rights for security, and they lost their democracy to a dictator. And Hitler had popular consensus all the way; he never broke a law, even while he killed millions of innocent Germans.

The same thing can easily happen in America, and if you do not see how then you are nieve. Any national crises and Americans see no problem in throwing down their rights. It has even happened before. The first example of this in American history is the Alien and Sedition Acts under John Adams, which blatantly removed freedom of speech. Since America was predominantly libertarian in those days, the acts were very unpopular. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War, but I can grudgingly forgive that since the country had basically already committed suicide when he did that. FDR imprisoned tens of thousands of American citizens, under no charges, against their will, based on no grounds except their racial background, in World War II. The American people allowed state governments to illegally confiscate legally owned and held firearms from US citizens in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. And I'll be darmmed, but whenever the American government in the past infringed and destroyed the Bill of Rights, it really didn't make America any safer did it? And as time progresses, this stuff keeps getting less and less controversial doesn't it? Oh, darn, but at least we can assume terrorism is different.

Terrorism can NEVER destroy the United States. What's the worst they can do? Let's say that they nuke California. The entire state of California is destroyed. It's a crater, and I'm dead. The United States still exists, albeit minus a star. But what would happen in the government after that? Can you imagine how fast civil rights would be broken on the basis of paranoia? Arabs of all sizes would in all liklihood be rounded up, and would very possibly be killed and would definitely be imprisoned. Anybody saying anything "unpatriotic" would be imprisoned. Let's say that the terrorist attack happens two months from an election; do you think that the elections would still occur? Or would the president say that the disruptions in government caused by a change of administration would open security holes, and that he'd just remain there until things were cleared up? And do you think "things would ever clear up"? The president would undoubtedly assume full control of the armed forces, and congress would become wholly irrevalent, either on their own accord (by their being "patriotic" and trusting in the president) or through coercion (the president has full control of the armed forces, remember). Judging by what happened in New Orleans recently, all guns in America would be confiscated by local cops to stop the looting, which is bound to be widespread. And no where in this instance of events is anybody making a greedy powergrab or is attempting to overthrow the US Constitution; the president is trying to protect the country, the people are hoping to be protected, people believe they are in danger. And they may be in very real danger, it doesn't matter. Regardless, it is good intentions that lead to the loss of rights. Is it an unfair leap to make that after a president has suspended the rights of speech, press, assembly, arms ownership and habeas corpus, and that after he has gained control of Congress and the armed forces, that it just might stick that way? That such a degree of paranoia and "patriotism" might overwhelm America that the Constitution is replaced by a dictator. It has happened before, and it will happen again.

Terrorists will not destroy America. They will create a fear, a paranoia, and a need to be protected that will cause the American people to deny themselves rights. When a democracy denies itself rights, it creates a power vacuum. And despite the intentions of the president at the time, he will be thrust into a dictatorship as a result of this vacuum. The democracy and freedom provided by the Constitution will be lost, and who is responsible? It is not the terrorist, it is not the terror caused by the attack. It is the American people themselves who acted on the terror, and in hopes of fighting the terrorists willingly destroyed their own freedom. And the support of wiretaps, and gun confiscation, and unwarranted searchs and seziures in order to make America safer is a result of the exact sama paranoia which terrorists are relying on to destroy the Constitution.

Neither a bomb, nor a poison, nor a plague can destroy the United States of America. The destruction of ourselves is a right held only by ourselves, and after being attacked democratic people never fail to try their best at committing suicide.

"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin

Geico266

1. Begal calls loosing California to terrorists and 70 million people dead paranoia?
2. Where can I contribute to this cause?

NHDiesel

We all know the US is the most evil nation in the world. We send more money to the survivors of the tsunami than any other nation, but we are called cheap and selfish by other nations. We are even kicked out of one country while still giving them aid.

We get bombed, but the liberals say we can't hastily defend ourselves. We have to wait, investigate (we already knew who did it), and let the enemy know months ahead of time before going over there. Months ahead of time. Gee, I wonder why we didn't find who we were looking for?

Weapons of Mass Destruction. Remember that the technical meaning is a weapon that is armed and ready to fire. At one time we found a large supply of long range missles capable of carrying nuclear or bio loads. on the same site, we found a supply of biological material ready to be loaded into the missles. We even found evidence of nuclear material and testing AT THE SAME SITE. But since material A wasn't installed in missle B, they weren't officially WMD's. Sounds like a technicality to me.

Has anyone spoken to soldiers who came back from Iraq? I have. Although some say we are not wanted there (funny, its always people who haven't been there or spoken to the people...their opinion is formed by information received from our LEFT media), the people who come back always say the same thing...the Iraq citizens...not the renegade terrorists, but the real families and citizens...are very happy we are there.

Some people just don't get it that there are people out there who are so full of hate, that nothing will stop them. All they want is for everyone who doesn't agree with them to be dead. They won't listen to reason or rational thinking. They won't compramise or make any attempt to get long with other religions or nationalities. They just want to kill everyone who disagrees with them. When we run into people like that, there are few options for how to deal with them.

I suppose the solution the left wants is for us to sit around and wait to be bombed again. When it happens...and it will, sooner rather than later if its known that we won't put up a fight...we'll just fly over and hug the people who did it. When they bomb us again, we'll do the same thing. The only problem i see, is that after they bomb us enough times, there won't be anyone left to hug them.

Jim

Baja

It is amazing that there are those who still believe that Iraq and Saddam are responsible for the attacks on 9-11. ALL reports comissioned by either independent groups or our own government have ALL said that there is NO connection between the two. If you tell a lie often and forceful enough, it will be believed, and some still believe. Bush and Cheney have drumbeat this proven lie to the public, and they still buy it, amazing. ALL reports have shown that Iraq and Saddam had no WMD's whatsoever, yet that is was excuse, along with 9-11, we used to attack a sovereign nation that had not so much as injured a American, much less attack us. Later the excuse was to get rid of Saddam, now the excuse is Democracy in Iraq, sort of keeps changing, doesn't it? I am not saying that Saddam is a good guy, not at all, but just because he is a PITA, that does not give us the right to invade him. By the way, even though there is a $25 MILLION bounty on Osama, where is he, why can't we find him? I remember Bush saying "I don't know where he is, and I don't care" This is from the same man who also said we will never rest, we will never falter until we find him dead or alive. After 9-11, we had the worlds sympathy, rightfully so, in two short years, we had the worlds disgust, and still have it, because of our go it alone actions.

P.J

Anyone have a logical rebutal to this? (doubt it)
I thought it was up to 50 million?

Funny (not ha,ha) how we hear NOTHING about Bin Ladin, huh? We've moved on to other things, right?

NHDiesel

Logical rebutal? How about that Bin Ladin and his oil-rich followers have enough money that $50 million is a drop in the bucket.

"If you tell a lie often and forceful enough, it will be believed, and some still believe."

Yup, and you are proof. The left media has pounded lies into the public for quite a while, and more and more people are believing them. Where do you suppose the 9/11 attackers came from? China? France?

Jim

Begle1

Okay, how many 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi?

0

Saudi?

14


There is no definitive proof that Saddam supported anti-American terrorism. Sorry, but there isn't. I wish there was, and there very well might be, but there is no definitive proof. The second we find proof we're going to know it because overnight America will smear it in the faces of every anti-Iraqi-invasion country on the planet and we won't stop rubbing it in their faces for years. But currently all we have is what was posted originally, which doesn't amount to enough (nearly enough) for our vindication.

As for WMD's, Saddam did a great job hiding those. Of course we know he had them, HE USED THEM for pete's sake. Heck, we gave the dude some...

I'm personally surprised that we didn't find a few old suitcase nukes or barrels of toxin or something almost as soon as we invaded. I mean, how hard is it to find a few old weapons of mass destruction laying in the middle of a country that we occupy?
At least you know that we're not too crooked...

Begle1

You didn't know that 70 million people were in California until you read the "Did you know..." thread, did you?

And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean that people aren't out to get me...

P.J

Umm, Jim, if I remember correctly most of the cowards came from Saudi Arabia. I submit their is an inherient problem with the Bush's as being too buddy buddy with them anyway. We never said word ONE to the Saudi's, further proving our lust for oil and money out weighs a lot of things in the country.

FiverBob

This thread is going downhill on a greased tobaggon.

crobtex

Yep, that's what we need to do....alinate the Saudi's and quit buying oil from them. I wonder how long it would take for the economy to crumble? Cars and trucks are not the only use for petroleum products.

Begle1

Which is why we need to expand economic and political influence over Africa and begin developing their agriculture in order to ensure a supply of bioDiesel for years to come.