BlackSunShyne

They don't? So when their children attend our schools, for which their parents pay no taxes to support, they are not taking our taxes? Or how about when they are injured or become ill, and go to our hospitals or emergency rooms to receive medical attention, for which they do not pay, but IS picked up by our government, to which they do not pay taxes, they are still not taking any of our tax dollars? Or we could talk about the increased border patrols required, which......wait for it......are paid by our tax dollars. What about when they have problems and have to call/have called on them, law enforcement of the locality, county, or state. Are they not using our tax money then??

These are just a few examples, but I think it is totally fair to state that, yes they do take quite a bit of our taxes, without contributing any back in return. Now I don't know about anyone else, but I am willing to pay extra for some oranges or grapefruit in order to stop this drain on our nations infrastructure.

cheff

You are talking about a minority of the immigrants. Like I said most don’t bring their families, and go home after the season. 90% of the expense on welfare is sucked up by US citizens not the immigrants. Immigrants can’t collect welfare, unemployment, disability etc.

PistolWhipt

The reason our own people won't hit the fields to pick veggies for a low wage is because they don't have a reason to. Back in the days of the depression, people had a need to. Why should young Johnny pull an honest wage when we have the money to hire Juan to do it for half the cost ?

I am not against the folks from Mexico coming over to work ... there just needs to be a better way of keeping track of them. Heck, we can't even keep track of our sex offenders and foster children ... what makes us think we can keep track of several thousand Mexican laborers ?

I do see the positives and negatives of both sides of the issue.

If they want to become citizens, fine ... go through the correct channels and I will be the first to welcome them as a fellow American.

But, I don't sneak benefits when I am in someone elses country (like not paying taxes, etc ...) ... I don't see why they feel the right to do it in mine.

I don't like the message that the wall sends out. It doesn't FIX the problem ... kinda like using a band-aid after a frontal lobotomy surgery ... don't make much sense.

Well, enough from me. I don't have a solution, so I will shut up.

PISTOL

candndelivery

Well spoken, close the borders, build it big, I'll pay higher OJ prices as long as they put razor wire on top.

That's right, I'm a crazy right wing conservative, stick around you might get Hannitized!!!

fredbert

Nah, I prefer two tall chain link fences about 100' apart separated by a mine field. The razor wire is a nice touch though.

crobtex

Wrong! Go check the facts.
The hospital systems in your state, my state, Arizona and New Mexico are being overwhelmed and closed down by the illeagles. They go broke and close down because they can't turn them away, none of the illeagles pay their bills and they can only get so much tax money and grants. Granted, we have too many of our own "welfare rats" to support. I don't like supporting them either, but at least they are U.S. citizens.
I have been reading newspapers and police reports from all over Texas and Colorado for several years, and the number of problems coming up with Hispanic names has multiplied significently. Another drain on the tax payer.
My BIL is a Mexican, and he will be the first to tell you that the illeagles are killing the public systems in the Southwest and that it needs to stop. He even includes his family members that he says come back and forth like "sewer rats". His (a Mexican) words, not mine. He contends that his family came up here, went to work, got their citizenship, and became productive citizens. Why can't the others?

Doesn't the Mexicans have a labor union that guarantees them higher then minimum wage when harversting crops in Cali?

HiJenks

That used to be true, now they make enough money to get their families up here and take up residence. They most definitely do collect welfare and disability and the Mexican government wants them to collect Social Security also.

The "wall" would not do away with "ports of entry" and legal entry would not change.

candndelivery

First off we need to stop the illegal crossing (fence or wall), then we deport all the aliens but give the choice of becoming legal US citizens, then we reform the citizenship process so it can be more efficient but yet still document all immigrants, last but not least, they must learn the ENGLISH language, be fluent in English, we do not need to cater to them If I wanted to speak Spanish I would move there, we shouldn't have to be bilingual to work in our own country.

Everyone have a Merry Christmas

crobtex

SS and illeagles is also a HUGE problem. I've seen it first hand and taken the time to look at the SS website. Want a BIG shock....take a look. If some of you pre baby boomers wonder why you won't have SS, take a look at the site and see who is getting YOUR money.

I've posted extensivly on this subject before.

yarddog

I like this idea the best. Mexico has a lot of great natural resources that could benefit people in both territories. Unfortunately the Mexican government is so corrupt that it can't help benefit it's own people. Lets annex it and take over government controll and call it good. We could funnel those resources back into the economy to offset the drain illegals have on wellfare and health care. I don't have a problem with the Mexican people and have good friends that are Mexican. They are for the most part honest hard working people that are doing whatever they can to make their lives better. We would be a much stronger nation in territory and man power. They are mostly Christian (Catholic) which doesn't hurt my feelings either.

I'm not opposed to a wall to control the illegal flow and keep terrorists out. I'm pretty confident that the terrorist are already here biding their time waiting for the order that could come tomorrow or 10 years from now. At this point a wall to keep them out is way to late.

Begle1

Because I'm lazy, I'll just repost an article I wrote earlier...

First of all: can we secure the borders? Absolutely yes, we have the full capability to do so. Hell, the Chinese did it a thousand years ago, and now we have electric fences and thermal imaging and sniper rifles and aircraft and land mines and whatnot. Of course we could.

Second of all: is securing the borders the solution to illegal immigration? Not at all. To begin with, it would never happen as the benefits don't outweigh the protests and the constant maintenance of such a system. So we don't build a wall and get what we have today, which is a shoddy bureaucratic system, incredibly lax support, multiple other problems and above all else lack of tax money. (That's the real issue; it isn't overpopulation, it's the fact that so many kids go to public schools unsupported by taxes, so many people use roads and infrastructure unsupported by taxes, so many people go to hospitals without having the ability to cover themselves...)

So how do we solve the problem? I believe I can make all of the problems with illegal immigration and illegal immigration disappear in a matter of months.
All we have to do is make the immigrants citizens at the border. Make them denounce Mexican citizenship and give them free US citizenship. Why not?
Doing so would
(A) Erase undocumented immigration. Immigrants really don't want to make a fast one over on the US, they want to make their lives better and have a great quality of ambition to work in and respect for the US. (It's not like it's taboo to come to the US illegally; it's about as illegal as license plate racks.) I live in illegal immigrant central and I don't believe anybody would turn down free citizenship. (There are those few that come and save their money in order to go and buy land in Mexico, but they're the minority and will be addressed with... See below...)
(B) 'Force' immigrants to pay taxes. They're citizens, so they got the IRS too. They would pay taxes like everybody else, therefore covering their children's schooling expenses and give the states enough money to embezzle, err, fix the freeways.
(C) 'Force' employers to respect laws. If immigrants are all citizens, then they all are subject to the same insurance, minimum wage and other employment laws as their counterparts. It would force immigrants to play by the same rules as everybody else, ending any kind of native-immigrant conflict in that area.
(D) Allow the health-care system to regain some kind of sustainability. ER's are shutting down around my area because they keep getting burned after the illegals they fix up don't have insurance, but if those illegals worked legally for employers, then they would have to have insurance and it would be a non-issue.
(E) Promote the integration of cultures. Yes the culture around here will become very much Mexican-related, that is precedented with every immigrant group in history and I like the Mexican culture. (Tacos- need I say more?) Actually illegals are already integrated into the culture; there are so many that they can't all clump together into "Little Mexico". (The only problem is that there are so many that many don't need to learn English. While Spanish is a very sexy language, the cornerstone of a civilization is a common language. So do what the Romans did- require and enforce that every piece of official documentation is in English. All vehicle registration, tax forms, legal documentation, road signs, etc. MUST be in English, not bilingual, ENGLISH. Problem eventually solved...)
(F) Greatly help the economy. Immigrants are very ambitious as a general rule of thumb; it's not the slackers that leave everything they have behind, hop over a fence into a new country with nothing but a big hat and pair of pants and start a new life from scratch. Yes, they are hard workers, as anybody around here can attest to. (They also have a habit of stealing things, but if they no longer have a Mexican citizenship at the border that should eliminate the problem of "fleeing to Mexico".) An ambitious worker is a specialized and valuable worker who helps the entire economy- we NEED those. The process of immigration filters the lazy people out- we're left with the cream of the crop!

I personally think that it would solve the entire problem. I didn't cover the counterarguments in advance because I figure that ya'll could come up with those your own, and because I really have to go pee and have to wrap this up...

Tell me if I missed anything...

pmtg

im going to Alaska and homesteading...

newriverSpecon

I have seen the changes in the last 20 years. The effects of the illeagals. I make no issues about the ones that want to work and come here legally, no problem. crobtex has listed a great number of issues.

Here are mine. You talk about the price of labor. Want to take a guess at how much ILLEAGAL have cost ME DIRECTLY THIS YEAR? Over $5000! Add that to taxs I already pay. I had a vehicle stolen and totalled 29 days after we bought it and lost our down payment/one months payment/ and deductible. Guess what happened to the vehicle. It was found 15 miles from the border the backseat removed and an extra antenna through the roof. With just over 200 miles driven on it. That means they probably made a couple of trips. That was in May. In Oct. someone tried to steal my 99(as well as a v-10 4x4 in te complex). What about the shoot outs on the freeway between TUS and PHX that end up involving innocent civilans.

My B-in-L got a letter from the IRS asking why one of his 5 year old twin daughters had not filed taxes. Guess who was using it? But your right the cheap labor that has not respect for our contry, who crash vehicle into light poles and take off running, whos kids that DO come with them have zero respect for anyone else is worth saveing 10 cents on a pound of lettuce.

Randy

Mexstan

Begle1, your ideas would never fly. Why? Because the destroyers of America (the ACLU & others) would find ways to prevent things like that ever happening.

Interesting thread. I noticed the lead story when it first came out and was tempted to post it, but figured that it would lead to too many tempers being lost, bad feelings etc.
A friend of mine in Texas frames new houses and he tells me that he would be out of business if all his Mexican staff were forced to go home. He says that he is constantly trying to hire Americans but nobody wants to do that kind of work. His Mexicans work hard and work a full day without finding excuses for a break. He even has a problem making them take Sunday's off as they want to work more and earn more.

j-fox

I think we need to make every lawyer work two weeks in a labor farm.

I need to find more /better help. The young white boys only want to get high. The blacks work till un-employment kicks in, and are gone. Mexicans will be interviewed if they have green cards and the cards are verified.
Anyone, anyone, will get the law called on them if they come and apply and are illegal/wanted. Period.