oscaroc

Cult:
A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
The followers of such a religion or sect.
A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
The object of such devotion.
An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

it seems to me all religions are cults in one way or another!

Mexstan

Finally, my replies to the rest of what I want to comment on. This sure has taken a big chunk out of my day, time that I can't really afford, but as this is such an important sugject, felt that I needed to do it. Here goes:

DF5152. If the Jews are God's chosen people but they don’t believe that Jesus was the Messiah does that mean they will not go to heaven? And if that’s true how can they still be god's chosen people

Good question. Most Jews still do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah. That will change dramatically after the Rapture when the two messengers mentioned in Revelations start telling the Jews about Jesus. Also in the NT it talks about the 144,000. These are converted Jews who will assist in showing many Jews the way to heaven. As for the Jews that did not accept Jesus for who he was and the question about whether they will go to heaven or not, well I really don’t care as that is between Jesus and them. The Jews are STILL God’s chosen people in spite of what they did and what they believe. Nowhere in scripture does it show otherwise. The gospel was given to the gentiles to spread around the world because the Jews did not believe.
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Eskimo. Anyway...I have a question that's been bugging me for a long time. I am a doubter. I don't have much faith in anything that I can't prove, and while I do believe in God, a sign is all it would take for me to be devout for life. I'm not saying for the waters to part... something simple... move my pen an inch... make my cat meow... open a window... speak to me in a dream... something.

I don't go to church often at all, but I do give thanks to God for the good things (and the bad things in my life...everything happens for a reason), but I know I could be a much more religious person, and I would, honestly - IF i could know someone's listening.

Does this make sense? Am I wrong for asking for a tiny bit of proof?

Are you wrong in asking for proof? In a word, no. However, you are asking for material proof and it is highly unlikely that you will see your pen move or open a window. In the unlikely event this does happen, then you will need to be VERY leery that this is from God. Satan works this way, but not God. The Christian religion is based on faith. Hebrews 11:1 tells us: “Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see”. It can be seen again John 3:3, “Jesus declared, I tell you the truth, no one can see the Kingdom of God unless he is born again”. Also in John 12:46. “I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness”. Throughout the Bible there are many references to believing and acting in faith. Eskimo, be assured that God IS listening to you, but are you listening to Him?
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TurbosAmongUs. How did Noah capture 2 of every creature on earth? And how could he build something so sea worthy that no-one else could have built in his time yet he was the only vessel to survive? interesting..too bad it didn't go into more detail
You are focusing on the human side here. It was not necessary for Noah to capture 2 of every creature. Actually, if you go back and read the Genesis 7:2 it was seven of every clean animal and two of the unclean. God directed these animals to the ark. Remember, God made all these creatures and He is quite capable of directing them into the ark. Scholars have estimated that 45,000 animals could have fit into the ark. The construction details of the ark is given in Genesis 6:14-16. One bit of trivia that I find interesting. The ark was exactly six times longer than it is wide. This is the same ratio used by modern shipbuilders.
The ark was built by amateurs and the Titanic was built by professionals. However, Noah had the biggest and best professional to guide him, God.
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TurbosamoungUs. quote:

The closer your get to God, the harder Satan will try to destroy your life. He is here to steal, kill, and destroy. Then why do it? If the worse it will be in the long run...take a step back a re-evaluate that statement? Is Christianity's idea of Heaven worth that kind of torture here on earth till you die?

YES! YES! YES! It is well worth the ‘torture’ here on earth. My time here on earth is limited to a few years. You used the words “….till you die” OK, you die, but then what?
After I die I get to spend eternity in heaven with Jesus. I can’t wait! Where are you going to spend eternity?

t-7 firefighter. Does that mean that 70% (almost 900 million) of the population (the part that didn’t get to choose) goes to hell?
Christianity makes up 33% of the worlds population. So 66% of the world is going to hell?

The Bible clearly states in Matthew 7:13 and 14 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it”. So yes, the majority of the world is going to go to hell. However, somewhere along the line they will have been given a chance and will have turned it down. Heaven or hell is choice. Which one is yours?
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smiller. ALL (your emphasis) religions? Including religions (such as Judaism and Islam) which pre-dated Christianity by millennia and from which Christianity drew many of its basic premises (belief in a single god, etc.)? Are you saying that Judaism and Islam are 'man made' and when Christianity developed (beginning as a Jewish sect) it suddenly became divine? It would seem that you are saying that God originally produced an incorrect or incomplete bible (the Old Testament) and then 'corrected' or updated it later with the New Testament? Rather odd behavior for an all-knowing being...

Judaism did predate Christianity but the Islamic movement started officially on July 16, 622 AD. This was when Mohammed escaped to Medina, the Hijrah or flight. Islam is definitely man made. No, God never made an incomplete Bible and there were no corrections made between the Old and New Testaments. In fact, the Old and New Testaments support one another. The Koran on the other hand has had many changes. Arthur Jeffery alone has found 90 pages of variant readings.

Joe N.

Here is a quote from a book I am reading, "There are not thousands of religions in the world, but only two. All of the other religions of the world are spelled 'd-0'. Regardless of its label, every other religion tells us what we must 'do' to earn God's favor. But Christianity is spelled 'd-o-n-e'. The foundation of the gospel is not what we do for God, but what God has already done for us in sending His Son to atone for our sins."

In the Old Testament God made a covenant with Abraham and said He would bless Abraham's descendents and the Jewish nation was the result of that covenant. Abraham was justified because he believed God . The Jews were blessed as God's chosen people but they soon turned from faith and began focusing on the law and today their salvation is dependent on their obedience to the law not faith. The law was given to show us what sin is so that we might understand right from wrong. Throughout the Bible, Old and New Testaments, people were justified by their faith in God. There are many accounts in the Old Testament where God tells us of his plan and how Jesus would be a part of that plan. In the Old Testament there are many prophecies that described all facets of Jesus' life from where He would be born to how He would die. That prophecy was all fulfilled in the New Testament. They are not two different books but two parts of one book.

Christianity did not begin as a Jewish sect. Jesus came to us to be a sacrifice for us and his followers were called Christians after his death, burial, and resurrection. Christian simply means a follower or disciple of Christ.

The Bible was completed about 1900 years ago and since then many people have tried to suppress it or disprove it but no one has succeeded. I believe the Bible is right and true and I believe that all people who do not trust in Jesus Christ for their salvation will be doomed to an eternity in hell because that is what the Bible teaches. Hell is a terrible place and the thought of hell should scare us into running to God but man in his infinite wisdom wants to make his own rules. God is a God of love and has prepared a place in heaven for all who will believe in Jesus as their Savior. Heaven is a place of peace, a place of no suffering, a place of no hunger, a place of rest, and a place where God is. A perfect place.

God has given us a moral standard, an absolute truth, that shows us how sinful we are. Man objects to that truth for the very reason it shows we are guilty of sin. Man has established his religions that rely on being a good person or doing good works and so try to work their way to a better place. God says you can't be good enough because he demands perfection. Jesus was a perfect man and was a perfect sacrifice for us. It is through our faith in what God has done for us that we become perfect to Him.

Every person has the freedom to decide what they want to believe. I believe the Bible is right and true and I will share what I believe with anyone who wants to hear it but I cannot make them believe like me and it they don't want to hear what I have to say I won't push my beliefs on them. I believe that every person will spend eternity in either Heaven or hell. I believe that to say no to God is to say yes to hell.

Mexstan

Here is something that I just thought of:

Missing the Obvious

The Lone Ranger and Tonto are camping in the desert, set up their tent, and are asleep. Some hours later, The Lone Ranger wakes his faithful friend.
"Tonto, look up and tell me what you see."
Tonto replies, "Me see millions of stars."
"What does that tell you?" asks The Lone Ranger.
Tonto ponders for a minute.
"Astronomically speaking, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets.
Astrologically, it tells me that Saturn is in Leo.
Time wise, it appears to be approximately a quarter past three.
Theologically, it's evident the Lord is all powerful and we are small and insignificant.
Meteorologically, it seems we will have a beautiful day tomorrow.
What it tell you, Kemo Sabi?"
The Lone Ranger is silent for a moment, then speaks.
"Tonto, you idiot, someone has stolen our tent."

The above joke is a good lesson in missing the obvious. Chances are that you were surprised by the Lone Ranger's response. However, the first sentence of the joke tells you that the Lone Ranger and Tonto were camping in a tent. It should have been clear at Tonto's first response that he was missing the obvious.

Likewise, those who have already decided that God does not exist and that all processes must have a naturalistic explanation, do not see the obvious evidence that the universe was designed, rather than happened by chance. Same thing applies to those who cannot or will not see that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way into heaven.

Have you checked your tent lately?

t-15 firefighter

so since 66% of the worlds population is not christian and i would say a great number of those don't have the option of becoming one they are going to hell?

seems pretty closed minded to me.

it would be pretty hard for me to believe in a god that would exclude that many people.

i know what the bible says and every one is going to fall back on that. the only way to heaven is through etc. etc.

i'm trying to compile all of the sceintific facts to post later.

i'm at work so it might take a while. not that it is going to change any ones mind (and i don't want to) but since everyone is stating all of the bible quotes i will try to state all of the scientific facts.

britt

smiller

Closed minded? These guys? Whatever would give you that idea?

I applaud your effort, but do you really think that scientific methods of investigation will receive even the slighest recognition by anyone whose entire reality and world view is based solely upon the premise "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it"?

I will have to give religious fundamentalism one credit though... it is an amazingly effective form of mind control.

t-15 firefighter

no not really....

bdramsey

close minded? no. but then again I guess that an engine does NOT require fuel to run.....

God won't exlude that many people. Reward choices are equal for all people.

You know what the Bible say.... good. Now since you disagree with the Bible and think that it is not true in it's completness. Then it is up to the scientists to prove that it is wrong...... scientifically. Scientists have been trying for years to invalidate the Bible's authenticity. It hasn't happened yet.


I will be interested to view the scientific facts that will PROVE beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Bible is false.

t-15 firefighter

i never said that the bible is false. i said don't agree with certain parts of the bible and i think i can prove that certain parts are not accurate. now i know that you wouldn't believe it even if it were proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. there is nothing wrong with that. i have just maintained that i don't believe in it.

i believe that parts of the bible are accurate. i just think that parts of it are also inaccurate.

one more thing.... lets take the story of abraham sacrificing his only son.

("After these things God tested Abraham, and said to him, ‘Abraham!’ And he said, ‘Here am I.’ He said, ‘Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you’." (Genesis 22:1-2, R.S.V.)

now WHAT kind of god would ask you to sacrifice your child??????? if god already knows what abraham is going to do then why ask?????

this is where god and i would have to part ways. if god asked me to make my child into a burnt offering it would be over.

Joe N.

The old saying, "God said it, I believe it, and that settles it" is really not a correct statement. The true statement should be "God said it and that settles it". God's statements are true whether you or I believe them or not.

t-7, if you are looking for evidence try reading the book "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. He studied law at Yale and was the legal editor at one of the Chicago papers. Mr. Strobel was an atheist and set out to prove that Christianity was not true. It is an interesting study.

smiller, you seem to be more than a little put off by Christians and maybe just a little angry. If what we are talking about offends you don't have to participate in this post but I hope you will continue to be a part of this. We all stand to learn from this dialog. Let's just do it in a civilized way.

Am I closed-minded? Yes, I guess I am. I have read some about various religions but I believe the only true religion is Christianity. I have found the truth so I don't have to search for anything else. Is a person being closed-minded if they refuse to accept or consider the teachings of the Bible? I cannot judge anyone only God can do that. God said there is only one way to heaven and that is through faith in Jesus. When Christians tell that to someone they are not trying to judge anyone they are just trying to share a plan that will save a person from an eternity of suffering.

There is an old analogy that applies - If you had a cure for cancer would you keep it to yourself or would you share it with others so that they could be cured? Christians believe we have found the "cure" to prevent eternal suffering and that is what we are trying to tell people. It is, or should be, shared out of concern and love for others.

As far as the concept of all unbelievers going to hell - many theologians explain that the Bible teaches that there are degrees of hell. All men will be judged by God according to the level of revelation they have received about God. Jesus told a parable in Luke 12:47-48 where one slave knew what his master wanted but failed to do it and received many lashes. Another slave did not know what his master wanted but still did something worthy of being flogged. The second slave received only a few lashes because he didn't know what the master wanted (that is a paraphrase not a quote). He received less punishment but he was still punished. People the have heard the Gospel and rejected it will receive more severe punishment than those who never heard but they will both be punished because they have both sinned. Still even the mildest punishment in hell will be torment for eternity. Like it or not that is what God says.

phox_mulder

What is "Faith"?
Knowing something absolutely for certain, no doubt about it? or "feeling" something is right.

Faith is believing something without seeing, hearing, smelling or tasting it.
That sure sounds like "feeling" to me.

Nothing Satan wants us to do should feel right.
The 10 Commandments for example, does breaking any of them "feel" right to a normal human being?

I'd say every organized religion can fall into the "cult" category.
Some more than others.
Nuff said.


phox

phox_mulder

My point exactly.

That's why I firmly believe,
nay, have faith even,
that if you live a good life you'll be OK in whatever herafter there may (or may not) be.


phox

bdramsey

Lu 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

the word hate is not to be taken literally, it is to be taken as if a man values his relationship with anyone other than Jesus, then they cannot serve Jesus. We can only have 1 master. Be that master God, or be that master somone or somthing else it does not matter, because we are to sacrifice our own entire life to follow Jesus.

Sacrifice your own Child.... kinda far fetched huh?

Does not an owner have a right to do with his property what he wants?

What lesson is learned from this?

The lessonI learn is God will push us to what we think our boundries are, in faith we must trust him. Just in the nick of time God stopped Abraham, and provided what was needed.
God is notorious for timing things and events to make us nervous. Each time we gain more faith, and more trust.

God wanted to test Abraham, Abraham passed, seems like an extreme test, but then again God the giver of life could have raised Issac from the dead.

bdramsey

phox-
what does your Bible show for Mt 5:20? Just out of curiosity, because as far as I can read it explains how righteousness gets people into heaven.

Not trying to start an argument, I understand different translations can give completly different meanings.

somthing so little as a comma can change the whole interpretation of a sentence.

t-15 firefighter

i guess my point was, if god already knew what was going to happen and what choice abraham was going to make, then why ask it?

timing or no timing this is an unreasonable request. if i tried to burn my child and said god told me to do it you guys would think i was a fruit. but yet it is okay for abraham to have done it because it is in the bible.

i just don't understand how christians can go with that.

this is just one of many things

britt