Biblical References
10-01-2004, 01:24 AM
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The references:
10 Douglas, CONFUCIANISM AND TAOISM, pp. 260-271.
11 Williams C.A.S., OUTHLINES OF CHINESE SYMBOLISM AND ART MOTIVES, (Dover Publications Inc.).
12 Garrett P. Serviss, CURIOSITIES OF THE SKY.
13 Phillip L. Knox, WONDER WORLDS (Washington, DC: Review and Herald Publishing Assoc., 1964) p.61
14 Ibid.
15 Serviss.
16 Ibid.
17 Knox, p. 60.
18 Ibid.
19 MacDonell, A. A., VEDIC MYTHOLOGY, (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1974) p. 2.
20 THE KORAN, Trans. George Sale (London: Frederick Warne, 1909) pp. 5, 541.
21 Ibid., p. 567.
22 Ibid., p. 294.
10 Douglas, CONFUCIANISM AND TAOISM, pp. 260-271.
11 Williams C.A.S., OUTHLINES OF CHINESE SYMBOLISM AND ART MOTIVES, (Dover Publications Inc.).
12 Garrett P. Serviss, CURIOSITIES OF THE SKY.
13 Phillip L. Knox, WONDER WORLDS (Washington, DC: Review and Herald Publishing Assoc., 1964) p.61
14 Ibid.
15 Serviss.
16 Ibid.
17 Knox, p. 60.
18 Ibid.
19 MacDonell, A. A., VEDIC MYTHOLOGY, (Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1974) p. 2.
20 THE KORAN, Trans. George Sale (London: Frederick Warne, 1909) pp. 5, 541.
21 Ibid., p. 567.
22 Ibid., p. 294.
10-01-2004, 07:29 AM
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Originally posted by Joe N.
t-7 firefighter,
By the way, I have family living in LR and Conway. I want you to know how much I appreciate you and the other fire fighters and police officers for protecting us. You guys don't get anywhere near the recognition that you deserve. Thank you for being willing to put your life on the line to protect my family and others.
t-7 firefighter,
By the way, I have family living in LR and Conway. I want you to know how much I appreciate you and the other fire fighters and police officers for protecting us. You guys don't get anywhere near the recognition that you deserve. Thank you for being willing to put your life on the line to protect my family and others.
thank you for the kind words.
britt
10-01-2004, 04:18 PM
#78
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
I have not had time the last couple of days to compile a reply to Chaikwa that I promised. Sorry about that. Man, what a lot of infom has been submitted since I last checked. It's going to take me a week to read and digest it all.
Until I have managed to read all the submissions and come up with one of my own, here is something I 'borrowed' for y'all to read:
Top Ten Reasons For Not Being a Christian
1. "Seeing is believing. I've never seen God, so how do I know He exists?"
Nobody has ever seen the wind, but there is no doubt of its power. Nobody has seen history, but there is no doubt of its legacy. Nobody has seen a person's mind, but that doesn't make us mindless. TV and radio waves are invisible, but with the proper receiver, we can see their results.
Having never seen God is not much of a reason for rejecting Him, if you get right down to it. Let's see if we can do better.
2. "I may have broken the Ten Commandments, but I do good things for people. If God is fair, the scales will balance."
One look at "Hollywood morality" should dispel this one. They commit adultery in their youth, and then become involved in giving to AIDS research, etc., as they grow older. In their minds, they think that they are balancing the scales. They have done bad, and now they are doing good.
It doesn't work that way, even before an imperfect judge in a secular courtroom – if the judge is honest. An effort to bribe the judge with good works is still a bribe.
If you compare yourself with other human beings, you might be better than some, but worse than others.
But God has to judge us on the basis of His righteous character, which we have violated. This is why He gave us the "Big Ten." They show us how good we would have to be to earn God's acceptance by our own good deeds. This is why God cannot judge on the "curve."
God says, "Whoever keeps the whole law, yet offends in one point is guilty of all of it." (James 2:10)
Since none of us could ever be good enough to measure up to His perfect character, God elected to come to Earth in the person of Jesus Christ and die in our place under His offended righteous character. In so doing, God purchased a pardon for every person. We only have to admit we have broken His laws, turn to God and accept His free pardon.
3. "Christianity is oppressive to women."
This objection comes up in confusing the context of the Christian model for marriage. Ephesians 5:22 says, "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as unto the Lord." But the skeptic's objection collapses when the passage is taken in its full context.
Ephesians 5:25 commands husbands, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it."
It is hardly "oppression" to submit to someone who loves you with a sacrificial love. Instead, it is a textbook definition of love – a key ingredient to a successful marriage.
4. "The Bible was written by men."
As an objection, this is by far the silliest. When you write a letter, are you writing it, or is the pen? As I type this column, am I writing it, or is my computer? Clearly, the pen, or the computer, is the instrument, not the writer.
The same principle applies to the writers of Scripture. They were instruments, but God's Spirit is the Author.
The Bible declares of itself that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God." (2 Timothy 3:16) and the proof is in the pudding. The writers of Scripture ranged from shepherds to kings to fishermen, but the 66 books that make up the Bible read as a single, harmonious narrative emanating from a Single Author.
God threw down the gauntlet concerning how to know whether His Word is true or not. God said to Moses, "You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken." (Deut. 18:21-22 NIV)
Every prophecy made in the Bible about specific events, places and times have come true to the letter. Some are not yet fulfilled because it is not yet the time. But the record in history is 100 percent accuracy.
This is why we have only the books in the Bible that have been authenticated by fulfilled prophecy. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah.
5. "Churches are full of hypocrites."
The word "hypocrite" comes from the Greek word for "actor" or "pretender." Hypocrisy is "the practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold."
The Body of Christ consists of true believers – "churches" are buildings where people congregate. Sitting in a church no more makes one a Christian than sitting in a garage makes one a car.
Jesus will sort out the true believers from the pretenders in His time. The question is not what church you go to, but rather, whom do you trust for your salvation? A church? Or Jesus Christ?
6. "Christians think they are better than non-Christians."
This is another objection borne out of ignorance of both the teaching of Scripture and the nature of salvation. Nowhere do the Scriptures say that a Christian is a better person than a non-Christian. A believer in Jesus is a forgiven sinner. The unbeliever is not forgiven. But a true Christian knows that he is forgiven by the unmerited grace of God.
Peter betrayed Jesus by denying Him three times. Judas betrayed Him only once. But Peter is infinitely better off. Peter believed and was forgiven. Judas did not.
Two murderers were crucified alongside Jesus. One repented and expressed his faith by saying, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus immediately replied, "Truly I say to you, Today you will be with me in Paradise."
By way of analogy, consider two skydivers. One has a working parachute; the other does not. That doesn't make the skydiver with a working parachute a better skydiver. But he is certainly wiser than the other guy.
7. "There is too much suffering in the world for there to be a loving God."
The Bible tells us that God cursed the Earth because of Adam's transgression. Weeds are a curse. So is disease. Sin and suffering cannot be separated. The Scriptures inform us that we live in a fallen creation.
Those who understand the message of Holy Scripture eagerly await a new Heaven and a new Earth "wherein dwells righteousness."
In that coming Kingdom there will be no more pain, suffering, disease or death. If it didn't exist here, then its abolition then would be meaningless. The sacrifice of Christ would be unnecessary.
A loving God? John 15:13 says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
8. "Christianity isn't fair. What about all those people who have never heard the Gospel? Will they all go to Hell because they haven't heard about Jesus Christ?"
No one will be lost because he hasn't heard of Jesus. God says, "The wrath of God is being revealed from Heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:18-20)
He also promises, "You will seek Me and find me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)
You see, God brings everyone to "God-consciousness" through the witness of creation. When a person anywhere, in any culture comes to God-consciousness – and then desires to know this God, He will move Heaven and Earth to get the true message to him. If he dies without hearing about Jesus Christ, it's because he did not want to know the true God.
9. I've tried to read the Bible. I can't understand it.
The Scriptures tells us that the "natural man" cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. Most Americans would find it difficult to understand the Chinese language. However, a child who is born into a Chinese family can understand every word.
Every person is born physically alive, but spiritually dead. God is a "Spirit" and we must have the same kind of life to perceive Him.
This is why Jesus said to a very religious man, "Unless a man is born from above, he cannot perceive the things of God."
When even an uneducated person believes in Jesus and is born spiritually, he can immediately begin to understand the Bible.
10. Christians are sinners, according to their own teaching. So what is the difference between a Christian who sins and a non-believer?
This objection misses the point. A Christian receives a new nature and the Spirit of God comes to dwell in him it at the point of the "new spiritual birth." He still has an old nature that wants to sin. When the Christian fails to say no to temptation and depend upon God's Spirit, he sins.
The difference, however, is that a Christian cannot be happy anymore living in sin. He becomes miserable and wants to return to fellowship with God. As soon as he confesses his sin to God, he is forgiven and brought back into fellowship.
But though the Christian can get out of fellowship, he cannot lose his relationship with God. That has been secured forever by the death of Jesus Christ in his place. God will not disown a child that He purchased with His own Blood.
The 10 reasons for not being a Christian, therefore, are really 10 reasons why, if you haven't already, you should be on your knees – right now – receive the gift of pardon that Jesus purchased by dying in your place.
You won't become perfect in this life, but you will have new desires and power that will make you progressively better.
And at the end, you will go to be with God forever.
Until I have managed to read all the submissions and come up with one of my own, here is something I 'borrowed' for y'all to read:
Top Ten Reasons For Not Being a Christian
1. "Seeing is believing. I've never seen God, so how do I know He exists?"
Nobody has ever seen the wind, but there is no doubt of its power. Nobody has seen history, but there is no doubt of its legacy. Nobody has seen a person's mind, but that doesn't make us mindless. TV and radio waves are invisible, but with the proper receiver, we can see their results.
Having never seen God is not much of a reason for rejecting Him, if you get right down to it. Let's see if we can do better.
2. "I may have broken the Ten Commandments, but I do good things for people. If God is fair, the scales will balance."
One look at "Hollywood morality" should dispel this one. They commit adultery in their youth, and then become involved in giving to AIDS research, etc., as they grow older. In their minds, they think that they are balancing the scales. They have done bad, and now they are doing good.
It doesn't work that way, even before an imperfect judge in a secular courtroom – if the judge is honest. An effort to bribe the judge with good works is still a bribe.
If you compare yourself with other human beings, you might be better than some, but worse than others.
But God has to judge us on the basis of His righteous character, which we have violated. This is why He gave us the "Big Ten." They show us how good we would have to be to earn God's acceptance by our own good deeds. This is why God cannot judge on the "curve."
God says, "Whoever keeps the whole law, yet offends in one point is guilty of all of it." (James 2:10)
Since none of us could ever be good enough to measure up to His perfect character, God elected to come to Earth in the person of Jesus Christ and die in our place under His offended righteous character. In so doing, God purchased a pardon for every person. We only have to admit we have broken His laws, turn to God and accept His free pardon.
3. "Christianity is oppressive to women."
This objection comes up in confusing the context of the Christian model for marriage. Ephesians 5:22 says, "Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands, as unto the Lord." But the skeptic's objection collapses when the passage is taken in its full context.
Ephesians 5:25 commands husbands, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it."
It is hardly "oppression" to submit to someone who loves you with a sacrificial love. Instead, it is a textbook definition of love – a key ingredient to a successful marriage.
4. "The Bible was written by men."
As an objection, this is by far the silliest. When you write a letter, are you writing it, or is the pen? As I type this column, am I writing it, or is my computer? Clearly, the pen, or the computer, is the instrument, not the writer.
The same principle applies to the writers of Scripture. They were instruments, but God's Spirit is the Author.
The Bible declares of itself that "all Scripture is given by inspiration of God." (2 Timothy 3:16) and the proof is in the pudding. The writers of Scripture ranged from shepherds to kings to fishermen, but the 66 books that make up the Bible read as a single, harmonious narrative emanating from a Single Author.
God threw down the gauntlet concerning how to know whether His Word is true or not. God said to Moses, "You may say to yourselves, 'How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD?' If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken." (Deut. 18:21-22 NIV)
Every prophecy made in the Bible about specific events, places and times have come true to the letter. Some are not yet fulfilled because it is not yet the time. But the record in history is 100 percent accuracy.
This is why we have only the books in the Bible that have been authenticated by fulfilled prophecy. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled in the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah.
5. "Churches are full of hypocrites."
The word "hypocrite" comes from the Greek word for "actor" or "pretender." Hypocrisy is "the practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold."
The Body of Christ consists of true believers – "churches" are buildings where people congregate. Sitting in a church no more makes one a Christian than sitting in a garage makes one a car.
Jesus will sort out the true believers from the pretenders in His time. The question is not what church you go to, but rather, whom do you trust for your salvation? A church? Or Jesus Christ?
6. "Christians think they are better than non-Christians."
This is another objection borne out of ignorance of both the teaching of Scripture and the nature of salvation. Nowhere do the Scriptures say that a Christian is a better person than a non-Christian. A believer in Jesus is a forgiven sinner. The unbeliever is not forgiven. But a true Christian knows that he is forgiven by the unmerited grace of God.
Peter betrayed Jesus by denying Him three times. Judas betrayed Him only once. But Peter is infinitely better off. Peter believed and was forgiven. Judas did not.
Two murderers were crucified alongside Jesus. One repented and expressed his faith by saying, "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom." Jesus immediately replied, "Truly I say to you, Today you will be with me in Paradise."
By way of analogy, consider two skydivers. One has a working parachute; the other does not. That doesn't make the skydiver with a working parachute a better skydiver. But he is certainly wiser than the other guy.
7. "There is too much suffering in the world for there to be a loving God."
The Bible tells us that God cursed the Earth because of Adam's transgression. Weeds are a curse. So is disease. Sin and suffering cannot be separated. The Scriptures inform us that we live in a fallen creation.
Those who understand the message of Holy Scripture eagerly await a new Heaven and a new Earth "wherein dwells righteousness."
In that coming Kingdom there will be no more pain, suffering, disease or death. If it didn't exist here, then its abolition then would be meaningless. The sacrifice of Christ would be unnecessary.
A loving God? John 15:13 says, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."
8. "Christianity isn't fair. What about all those people who have never heard the Gospel? Will they all go to Hell because they haven't heard about Jesus Christ?"
No one will be lost because he hasn't heard of Jesus. God says, "The wrath of God is being revealed from Heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:18-20)
He also promises, "You will seek Me and find me when you search for Me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)
You see, God brings everyone to "God-consciousness" through the witness of creation. When a person anywhere, in any culture comes to God-consciousness – and then desires to know this God, He will move Heaven and Earth to get the true message to him. If he dies without hearing about Jesus Christ, it's because he did not want to know the true God.
9. I've tried to read the Bible. I can't understand it.
The Scriptures tells us that the "natural man" cannot understand the things of the Spirit of God. Most Americans would find it difficult to understand the Chinese language. However, a child who is born into a Chinese family can understand every word.
Every person is born physically alive, but spiritually dead. God is a "Spirit" and we must have the same kind of life to perceive Him.
This is why Jesus said to a very religious man, "Unless a man is born from above, he cannot perceive the things of God."
When even an uneducated person believes in Jesus and is born spiritually, he can immediately begin to understand the Bible.
10. Christians are sinners, according to their own teaching. So what is the difference between a Christian who sins and a non-believer?
This objection misses the point. A Christian receives a new nature and the Spirit of God comes to dwell in him it at the point of the "new spiritual birth." He still has an old nature that wants to sin. When the Christian fails to say no to temptation and depend upon God's Spirit, he sins.
The difference, however, is that a Christian cannot be happy anymore living in sin. He becomes miserable and wants to return to fellowship with God. As soon as he confesses his sin to God, he is forgiven and brought back into fellowship.
But though the Christian can get out of fellowship, he cannot lose his relationship with God. That has been secured forever by the death of Jesus Christ in his place. God will not disown a child that He purchased with His own Blood.
The 10 reasons for not being a Christian, therefore, are really 10 reasons why, if you haven't already, you should be on your knees – right now – receive the gift of pardon that Jesus purchased by dying in your place.
You won't become perfect in this life, but you will have new desires and power that will make you progressively better.
And at the end, you will go to be with God forever.
10-01-2004, 05:29 PM
#80
Administrator
Thank you Mexstan. Like you, it will take me awhile to digest it all. There is certainly a new 'clearness' now however, and that's something I didn't have before all this!
chaikwa.
chaikwa.
10-01-2004, 08:24 PM
#81
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guys,
i been reading with great interest about this "hell" doctrine and i believe its christendoms scare tactic to get more people to join her churches.. please tell me how a god who is described in the bible as being a god of love burn people for 70-80 years of sinful life? what would happen if you burned your children who you claimed to love? would you not be indicted on several accounts of cruelty and sadistic acts? would not population that heard about the crime be angered about you burning your child? lets use some common sense her as i know you who drive ctds have. a god of love cannot burn someone like that for eternity. this is not a balanced sense of justice. also on this issue of being "saved" please tell me how you folks that make that claim justify that in light of mathew 10:22 and mathew 24:13. im interested to know the answers to those questions. there is no need to quote scripture, just please explain your reasonings to me
i been reading with great interest about this "hell" doctrine and i believe its christendoms scare tactic to get more people to join her churches.. please tell me how a god who is described in the bible as being a god of love burn people for 70-80 years of sinful life? what would happen if you burned your children who you claimed to love? would you not be indicted on several accounts of cruelty and sadistic acts? would not population that heard about the crime be angered about you burning your child? lets use some common sense her as i know you who drive ctds have. a god of love cannot burn someone like that for eternity. this is not a balanced sense of justice. also on this issue of being "saved" please tell me how you folks that make that claim justify that in light of mathew 10:22 and mathew 24:13. im interested to know the answers to those questions. there is no need to quote scripture, just please explain your reasonings to me
10-01-2004, 08:37 PM
#82
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Originally posted by Mexstan
1. "Seeing is believing. I've never seen God, so how do I know He exists?"
Nobody has ever seen the wind, but there is no doubt of its power. Nobody has seen history, but there is no doubt of its legacy. Nobody has seen a person's mind, but that doesn't make us mindless. TV and radio waves are invisible, but with the proper receiver, we can see their results.
Having never seen God is not much of a reason for rejecting Him, if you get right down to it. Let's see if we can do better.
1. "Seeing is believing. I've never seen God, so how do I know He exists?"
Nobody has ever seen the wind, but there is no doubt of its power. Nobody has seen history, but there is no doubt of its legacy. Nobody has seen a person's mind, but that doesn't make us mindless. TV and radio waves are invisible, but with the proper receiver, we can see their results.
Having never seen God is not much of a reason for rejecting Him, if you get right down to it. Let's see if we can do better.
Please provide a clear answer to this question as I would like to know what a true Christian believes... are all Muslims, Jews, and any other non-Christians who feel that they know their own God very well indeed but do not choose to believe in the divinity of Christ going to Hell? Just a simple answer in English please, no bible verse.
You are free to believe whatever you choose and I don't mean to ridicule your faith, although you apparently find no difficulty in ridiculing other faiths by having some kind of certain knowledge that all beliefs other than your own are somehow wrong or misguided. Believe whatever you want, but please... don't post stuff like this and then actually have the audacity to wonder why some people find these attitudes offensive and condecending.
OK, now I get to join t-7 firefighter on the 'banned' list...
10-01-2004, 09:26 PM
#83
Administrator
Go easy guys.
Stay away from any personal attacks.
Religion, like politics , is a subject that can arouse very strong opinions.
Respect those opinions regardless if you agree with them or not.
Thanks guys.
Rich.
Stay away from any personal attacks.
Religion, like politics , is a subject that can arouse very strong opinions.
Respect those opinions regardless if you agree with them or not.
Thanks guys.
Rich.
10-01-2004, 09:33 PM
#84
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Originally posted by spudwrench
guys,
i been reading with great interest about this "hell" doctrine and i believe its christendoms scare tactic to get more people to join her churches.. please tell me how a god who is described in the bible as being a god of love burn people for 70-80 years of sinful life? what would happen if you burned your children who you claimed to love? would you not be indicted on several accounts of cruelty and sadistic acts? would not population that heard about the crime be angered about you burning your child? lets use some common sense her as i know you who drive ctds have. a god of love cannot burn someone like that for eternity. this is not a balanced sense of justice. also on this issue of being "saved" please tell me how you folks that make that claim justify that in light of mathew 10:22 and mathew 24:13. im interested to know the answers to those questions. there is no need to quote scripture, just please explain your reasonings to me
guys,
i been reading with great interest about this "hell" doctrine and i believe its christendoms scare tactic to get more people to join her churches.. please tell me how a god who is described in the bible as being a god of love burn people for 70-80 years of sinful life? what would happen if you burned your children who you claimed to love? would you not be indicted on several accounts of cruelty and sadistic acts? would not population that heard about the crime be angered about you burning your child? lets use some common sense her as i know you who drive ctds have. a god of love cannot burn someone like that for eternity. this is not a balanced sense of justice. also on this issue of being "saved" please tell me how you folks that make that claim justify that in light of mathew 10:22 and mathew 24:13. im interested to know the answers to those questions. there is no need to quote scripture, just please explain your reasonings to me
referencing your verses in mathew, To endure means basically to continue to do somthing regardless of how difficult it is. If a person lives in sin according to God's word, is it difficult for them to continue to live in sin? No it is not. On the other side of the coin, if a person lives by God's laws, the it is difficult sometimes not to sin. That is the endurance that those verses are talking about. Enduring to the end without sin, it's not easy and all will slip and stumble eventually, but because of God's mercy all we have to do is repent, and he casts our sin from his memory as far as the east is from the west.
10-01-2004, 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by smiller
In trying to make your religious beliefs understood you might do well to pay more attention to the tone of some of these posts. 'Do better'..? It's not hard to 'do better' than the statement above that contains a fallacy that any student learns about in the first week of their first class in elementary logic. Having not seen a God doesn't prove that he doesn't exist, but it obvioulsy does not prove that he does exist either. And, it's 'silly' to propose that the bible was written by men? And "If he dies without hearing about Jesus Christ, it's because he did not want to know the true God."?
Please provide a clear answer to this question as I would like to know what a true Christian believes... are all Muslims, Jews, and any other non-Christians who feel that they know their own God very well indeed but do not choose to believe in the divinity of Christ going to Hell? Just a simple answer in English please, no bible verse.
You are free to believe whatever you choose and I don't mean to ridicule your faith, although you apparently find no difficulty in ridiculing other faiths by having some kind of certain knowledge that all beliefs other than your own are somehow wrong or misguided. Believe whatever you want, but please... don't post stuff like this and then actually have the audacity to wonder why some people find these attitudes offensive and condecending.
OK, now I get to join t-7 firefighter on the 'banned' list...
In trying to make your religious beliefs understood you might do well to pay more attention to the tone of some of these posts. 'Do better'..? It's not hard to 'do better' than the statement above that contains a fallacy that any student learns about in the first week of their first class in elementary logic. Having not seen a God doesn't prove that he doesn't exist, but it obvioulsy does not prove that he does exist either. And, it's 'silly' to propose that the bible was written by men? And "If he dies without hearing about Jesus Christ, it's because he did not want to know the true God."?
Please provide a clear answer to this question as I would like to know what a true Christian believes... are all Muslims, Jews, and any other non-Christians who feel that they know their own God very well indeed but do not choose to believe in the divinity of Christ going to Hell? Just a simple answer in English please, no bible verse.
You are free to believe whatever you choose and I don't mean to ridicule your faith, although you apparently find no difficulty in ridiculing other faiths by having some kind of certain knowledge that all beliefs other than your own are somehow wrong or misguided. Believe whatever you want, but please... don't post stuff like this and then actually have the audacity to wonder why some people find these attitudes offensive and condecending.
OK, now I get to join t-7 firefighter on the 'banned' list...
why are people afraid of getting banned because of speaking thier mind?? The first post in theis thread warns people what this thread consists of, so there will probably be some people get offended. Even myself. Should I get offended because some folks don't believe in one God, being born again to enter in heaven? That is not for me to decide.
I tend to think that the way God says to get in heaven is alot simpler and not violent than many other religions. You don't have to kill people to get into heaven, charity won't get you into heaven, money won't get you into heaven, good deeds won't get you into heaven. The bible says all you have to do is repent of your sins, be baptised, believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, and confess him with your mouth. Not too hard. No violence, not earned, not bought (already purchased). Just accepted. That's all. God is love, not strife. Our very next breath is not guaranteed, so it would be foolishness to live in sin intentionaly until on your deathbed before you repent.
10-01-2004, 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by DieselDaze
Go easy guys.
Stay away from any personal attacks.
Religion, like politics , is a subject that can arouse very strong opinions.
Respect those opinions regardless if you agree with them or not.
Thanks guys.
Rich.
Go easy guys.
Stay away from any personal attacks.
Religion, like politics , is a subject that can arouse very strong opinions.
Respect those opinions regardless if you agree with them or not.
Thanks guys.
Rich.
10-01-2004, 09:59 PM
#87
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Location: Texas
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Originally posted by DieselDaze
Go easy guys.
Stay away from any personal attacks.
Religion, like politics , is a subject that can arouse very strong opinions.
Respect those opinions regardless if you agree with them or not.
Thanks guys.
Rich.
Go easy guys.
Stay away from any personal attacks.
Religion, like politics , is a subject that can arouse very strong opinions.
Respect those opinions regardless if you agree with them or not.
Thanks guys.
Rich.
I'll mind my p's & q's, tried to warn folks with the 1st post. I'll tone down, thanks for the warning.
I was really surprised at the speed that this thread took off and also surprised at the amount of information that these posts have been.
I can honestly say I wasn't prepared for this much response. I was just trying to get a thread to contain the religious discussion since I noticed it was being involved in quite a few of the other threads.
10-01-2004, 09:59 PM
#88
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Originally posted by bdramsey
The bible says all you have to do is repent of your sins, be baptised, believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, and confess him with your mouth. Not too hard.
The bible says all you have to do is repent of your sins, be baptised, believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, and confess him with your mouth. Not too hard.
10-01-2004, 10:31 PM
#89
It's my pot and I'll stir it if I want to. If you're not careful, I'll stir your's as well!
This topic of religion is an extremely sensitive one, and only one thing is guaranteed - there will be no consensus. The committed Christians KNOW they are correct, but it is an uphill battle to convince you folks of another faith, or even no faith, that what we have is unique. Let me try and explain something. What I am about to say is an over simplification, but may give some of you an idea of what some of theses posts mean.
First, the Christian believes that the Holy Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God. The scriptures refer to the Bible as a sword, or the sword of truth. It is the basis of everything that we believe. The traditions of man as practiced in some of the churches count for nothing in eternity.
Second, Christians believe what is known as the Trinity. The word 'Trinity' is not in the Bible, but is used to show our triune God. God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Some folks may have a hard time comprehending how one person can be three, so let me use a simple explanation and compare the Trinity to a book. A book has length, width a thickness. All three make the book. Take away any one of these and you no longer have a book. Or God is made up of the three. Take away any one, and you no longer have God.
Three. Now here is where non Christians may have a particularly hard time understanding what I am about to say. The person of the Holy Spirit 'lives' in born again Christians that request His presence. The Holy Spirit makes the scriptures come alive to the Christian and gives him a better understanding. To the non-believer, the scriptures are just a form of literature and they will NEVER comprehend the truths hidden in plain view in the Bible.
Having said all the above, let me now briefly try and answer spudwrenches (spudwrench's? spudwrench'? ) questions re those two scriptures.
No, God does NOT enjoy seeing people hurt, burning, going to hell and many more bad things. It is important to remember that when God made man, that HE gave man choices. If God did not do that, man would be a robot. Unfortunately, history has proven that man continuously makes the bad choices. It is the result of these bad choices that children and others are hurting so badly in this world.
God is totally fair, and if the scriptures are examined carefully AND IN CONTEXT, it will be shown repeatedly that God gives man many chances, but when man turns his back on God, there WILL be consequences. One of the consequences that will unfortunately last for ever, is that of going to hell.
Hell you say? That's just some place made up by Christians to scare more people to go to church. Wish I could say that was true, but hell is a real place, just as Satan is a real person. One of Satan's greatest tools is to convince people that he does not exist. The bottom line is that everybody who does not confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, WILL go to hell.
You non Christians may curse me or doubt if what I have just said is true, but I ask that you think about one thing. When I die, I am assured of my place in heaven. When you die, where is your soul going to spend eternity? What if you are wrong in your interpretation of the Bible? If I am wrong, big deal, but if you are wrong, then it is a BIG deal for eternity. Are you willing to risk that?
"Nuff for now. Time for my pillow.
First, the Christian believes that the Holy Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God. The scriptures refer to the Bible as a sword, or the sword of truth. It is the basis of everything that we believe. The traditions of man as practiced in some of the churches count for nothing in eternity.
Second, Christians believe what is known as the Trinity. The word 'Trinity' is not in the Bible, but is used to show our triune God. God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Some folks may have a hard time comprehending how one person can be three, so let me use a simple explanation and compare the Trinity to a book. A book has length, width a thickness. All three make the book. Take away any one of these and you no longer have a book. Or God is made up of the three. Take away any one, and you no longer have God.
Three. Now here is where non Christians may have a particularly hard time understanding what I am about to say. The person of the Holy Spirit 'lives' in born again Christians that request His presence. The Holy Spirit makes the scriptures come alive to the Christian and gives him a better understanding. To the non-believer, the scriptures are just a form of literature and they will NEVER comprehend the truths hidden in plain view in the Bible.
Having said all the above, let me now briefly try and answer spudwrenches (spudwrench's? spudwrench'? ) questions re those two scriptures.
No, God does NOT enjoy seeing people hurt, burning, going to hell and many more bad things. It is important to remember that when God made man, that HE gave man choices. If God did not do that, man would be a robot. Unfortunately, history has proven that man continuously makes the bad choices. It is the result of these bad choices that children and others are hurting so badly in this world.
God is totally fair, and if the scriptures are examined carefully AND IN CONTEXT, it will be shown repeatedly that God gives man many chances, but when man turns his back on God, there WILL be consequences. One of the consequences that will unfortunately last for ever, is that of going to hell.
Hell you say? That's just some place made up by Christians to scare more people to go to church. Wish I could say that was true, but hell is a real place, just as Satan is a real person. One of Satan's greatest tools is to convince people that he does not exist. The bottom line is that everybody who does not confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, WILL go to hell.
You non Christians may curse me or doubt if what I have just said is true, but I ask that you think about one thing. When I die, I am assured of my place in heaven. When you die, where is your soul going to spend eternity? What if you are wrong in your interpretation of the Bible? If I am wrong, big deal, but if you are wrong, then it is a BIG deal for eternity. Are you willing to risk that?
"Nuff for now. Time for my pillow.
10-01-2004, 10:54 PM
#90
Administrator
Originally posted by bdramsey
why are people afraid of getting banned because of speaking thier mind?? ....
why are people afraid of getting banned because of speaking thier mind?? ....
You may "speak your mind" all you wish... as long as you do so in accordance with the site rules.
No one is currently in jeopardy of being banned because of this thread. However, like many religious threads before this one, if the posts dont stay in line with the site rules, the thread will be locked.
Rich