Biblical References
10-30-2004, 11:08 PM
#376
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Originally posted by bdramsey
No, never heard of him.
I guess monks always had plenty of free time in thier hands, so that folks trusted them. I do wonder though how much stuff the monks knew before Gallileo, and the others figured came along.
....................
actually Mendel was a recent monk, 19th century I think. Did a lot of experiments with colored sweet peas.
.................................................
I grow roses at home, I have several varieties, and types spaced about 3 feet apart, I have two "L" shaped rows, and I have another section that is a square.
One thing that I have been able to observe is how a yellow rose bush will produce yellow roses with speckles of red. And White roses that are speckeled with pink, and vice versa.
I have also seen that these color changes occour only within the type of rose. For example a grandiflora does'nt mix with a tea rose. The colors changes within types, but not across species. I have taken splices from a grandiflora and spliced a branch to a climbing rose, I was just foolin around. The climbing rose did not have any leaves on it, and it looked like it was starting to die. So I cut a branch from the grandiflora and cut the end off one of the stems and taped it on to the climbing rose bush.
Within about 2 weeks I saw that the climbing rose bush had produced leaves, and new branches, however after this happened the peice that I had spliced from the grandiflora died, almose immediatly.
I was surprised to see that the host bush was able to utilize the effects of the "strange" branch to fulfill it's "needs" and then discard of it. When it made roses, they were the color and type of the host plant.
Pretty neat huh?
No, never heard of him.
I guess monks always had plenty of free time in thier hands, so that folks trusted them. I do wonder though how much stuff the monks knew before Gallileo, and the others figured came along.
....................
actually Mendel was a recent monk, 19th century I think. Did a lot of experiments with colored sweet peas.
.................................................
I grow roses at home, I have several varieties, and types spaced about 3 feet apart, I have two "L" shaped rows, and I have another section that is a square.
One thing that I have been able to observe is how a yellow rose bush will produce yellow roses with speckles of red. And White roses that are speckeled with pink, and vice versa.
I have also seen that these color changes occour only within the type of rose. For example a grandiflora does'nt mix with a tea rose. The colors changes within types, but not across species. I have taken splices from a grandiflora and spliced a branch to a climbing rose, I was just foolin around. The climbing rose did not have any leaves on it, and it looked like it was starting to die. So I cut a branch from the grandiflora and cut the end off one of the stems and taped it on to the climbing rose bush.
Within about 2 weeks I saw that the climbing rose bush had produced leaves, and new branches, however after this happened the peice that I had spliced from the grandiflora died, almose immediatly.
I was surprised to see that the host bush was able to utilize the effects of the "strange" branch to fulfill it's "needs" and then discard of it. When it made roses, they were the color and type of the host plant.
Pretty neat huh?
That is the definition of a species. It can not breed outside of itself. Modern genetic manipulation of course can pass genes from anything to anything. Problem is they have not passed any long term tests of survivability or safety.
Also many plants will try to reproduce, to pass on their genes when stressed. This is why flooding rice tricks the plant into excessive seed production. There is so much interesting stuff going on it is exciting just to be alive and watch it.
Could you give me some tips on grafting. I have a good apple tree in a poor location. I had another, with inferior fruit which I cut down. The root stock grew back really healthy. I want to graft the good apples onto this rootstock and don't know how. In our prairie climate, apples on normal apple roots can't survive.
How do you make the cuts and what should they look like.
11-03-2004, 07:15 PM
#377
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I make diagonal cuts, you have to cut both stems. A good rule of thumb to consider is size, the size of the stems should be about identical, if not the same then the host should be larger than the attachment, kinda cut the center of the host and insert the attachment inside it.
11-03-2004, 09:12 PM
#378
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got a website that I was looking through, see what ya'll think of it. It covers almost everything we have discussed here in this thread.
http://www.godandscience.org
http://www.godandscience.org
11-03-2004, 09:15 PM
#379
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I did read some information on that guy, I still have alot more stuff to read......the whole life----work----pay taxes----work---pay taxes-----oops missed a step..........crap don't have time for that!
Must work and pay taxes..............
Must work and pay taxes..............
11-04-2004, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by bdramsey
I make diagonal cuts, you have to cut both stems. A good rule of thumb to consider is size, the size of the stems should be about identical, if not the same then the host should be larger than the attachment, kinda cut the center of the host and insert the attachment inside it.
I make diagonal cuts, you have to cut both stems. A good rule of thumb to consider is size, the size of the stems should be about identical, if not the same then the host should be larger than the attachment, kinda cut the center of the host and insert the attachment inside it.
Thanks for the information. What do you suggest for a covering or bracing?
11-04-2004, 01:52 PM
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some folks get all fancy when it comes to coverage, I figure you can wrap with a piece of tape, the kind that breathes, like the stretchy kind used for injuries. As far as a brace goes, a couple of regular hose clamps should do the job. Let your imagination soar. I don't officially fetilize my trees, or my roses. once or twice a year I soak the base with miracle gro and then about a week later I dump a scoop about 1/4 cup of fertilizer, Lesco is my favorite even though it is for grass. Then any other fertilizing or feeding gets done when I fertilize the yard. which is about once a month. If you use the 1/4 cup of fertilizer be sure to spread it out all the way around the plant, don't leave it concentrated in a pile at the base cause it will burn the plant.
11-05-2004, 08:59 PM
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Originally posted by bdramsey
some folks get all fancy when it comes to coverage, I figure you can wrap with a piece of tape, the kind that breathes, like the stretchy kind used for injuries. As far as a brace goes, a couple of regular hose clamps should do the job. Let your imagination soar. I don't officially fetilize my trees, or my roses. once or twice a year I soak the base with miracle gro and then about a week later I dump a scoop about 1/4 cup of fertilizer, Lesco is my favorite even though it is for grass. Then any other fertilizing or feeding gets done when I fertilize the yard. which is about once a month. If you use the 1/4 cup of fertilizer be sure to spread it out all the way around the plant, don't leave it concentrated in a pile at the base cause it will burn the plant.
some folks get all fancy when it comes to coverage, I figure you can wrap with a piece of tape, the kind that breathes, like the stretchy kind used for injuries. As far as a brace goes, a couple of regular hose clamps should do the job. Let your imagination soar. I don't officially fetilize my trees, or my roses. once or twice a year I soak the base with miracle gro and then about a week later I dump a scoop about 1/4 cup of fertilizer, Lesco is my favorite even though it is for grass. Then any other fertilizing or feeding gets done when I fertilize the yard. which is about once a month. If you use the 1/4 cup of fertilizer be sure to spread it out all the way around the plant, don't leave it concentrated in a pile at the base cause it will burn the plant.
11-12-2004, 01:59 PM
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Tell me what ya'll think abou this. I was thinking about the belief in the catholic church that by praying to the departed saints, they would gain God's ear and pass thier prayers/requests to God. This is a link that I have made between necromancy and different religions.
From www.m-w.com
Main Entry: nec·ro·man·cy
Pronunciation: 'ne-kr&-"man(t)-sE
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of Middle English nigromancie, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin nigromantia, by folk etymology from Late Latin necromantia, from Late Greek nekromanteia, from Greek nekr- + -manteia -mancy
1 : conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events
This would pertain to the instance such as "Saint Peter help me pass this test" etc.
Quote from the Bible:
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to
pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an
enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard,
or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the
LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out
from before thee. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
The above covers the old testament.
This one here covers the New Testament.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)
From www.m-w.com
Main Entry: nec·ro·man·cy
Pronunciation: 'ne-kr&-"man(t)-sE
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of Middle English nigromancie, from Middle French, from Medieval Latin nigromantia, by folk etymology from Late Latin necromantia, from Late Greek nekromanteia, from Greek nekr- + -manteia -mancy
1 : conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events
This would pertain to the instance such as "Saint Peter help me pass this test" etc.
Quote from the Bible:
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to
pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an
enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard,
or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the
LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out
from before thee. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12)
The above covers the old testament.
This one here covers the New Testament.
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5)
12-09-2004, 08:50 AM
#384
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'Twas the night Jesus came
and all through the house,
not a person was praying,
not one in the house..
The Bible was left
on the shelf without care,
for no one thought
Jesus would come there..
The children were dressing
to crawl into bed,
not once ever kneeling
or bowing their head..
And Mom in the rocking chair
with babe on her lap,
was watching the Late Show
as I took a nap..
When out of the East
there rose such a clatter,
I sprang to my feet
to see what was the matter.
Away to the window
I flew like a flash,
tore open the shutters
and lifted the sash.
When what to my wondering
eyes should appear,
but Angels proclaiming
that Jesus was here.
The light of His face
made me cover my head...
was Jesus returning
just like He'd said..
And though I possessed
worldly wisdom and wealth,
I cried when I saw Him
in spite of myself..
In the Book of Life
which he held in his hand,
was written the name
of every saved man..
He spoke not a word
as he searched for my name,
when He said "it's not here"
My head hung in shame..
The people whose names
had been written with love,
He gathered to take
to His Father above..
With those who were ready
He rose without sound,
while all of the others
were left standing around...
I fell to my knees
but it was too late,
I'd waited too long
and thus sealed my fate.
I stood and I cried
as they rose out of sight,
Oh, if only I'd known
that this was the night....
In the words of this poem
the meaning is clear
the coming of Jesus
is now drawing near...
There's only one life
and when comes the last call,
We'll find out that the Bible
is true after all...
and all through the house,
not a person was praying,
not one in the house..
The Bible was left
on the shelf without care,
for no one thought
Jesus would come there..
The children were dressing
to crawl into bed,
not once ever kneeling
or bowing their head..
And Mom in the rocking chair
with babe on her lap,
was watching the Late Show
as I took a nap..
When out of the East
there rose such a clatter,
I sprang to my feet
to see what was the matter.
Away to the window
I flew like a flash,
tore open the shutters
and lifted the sash.
When what to my wondering
eyes should appear,
but Angels proclaiming
that Jesus was here.
The light of His face
made me cover my head...
was Jesus returning
just like He'd said..
And though I possessed
worldly wisdom and wealth,
I cried when I saw Him
in spite of myself..
In the Book of Life
which he held in his hand,
was written the name
of every saved man..
He spoke not a word
as he searched for my name,
when He said "it's not here"
My head hung in shame..
The people whose names
had been written with love,
He gathered to take
to His Father above..
With those who were ready
He rose without sound,
while all of the others
were left standing around...
I fell to my knees
but it was too late,
I'd waited too long
and thus sealed my fate.
I stood and I cried
as they rose out of sight,
Oh, if only I'd known
that this was the night....
In the words of this poem
the meaning is clear
the coming of Jesus
is now drawing near...
There's only one life
and when comes the last call,
We'll find out that the Bible
is true after all...
12-09-2004, 09:24 AM
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BDRamsey
In your post above, you have articulated a common misconception about the Catholic faith. You typed:
Catholics don't pray TO Saints, they ask Saints to pray FOR us. It's a big difference. We all have asked friends and family to pray for us when we are in difficult situations. Asking the Saints for their prayers is really no different.
Catholics and Protestants may have their theologic differences, but in the final analysis, we are really only splitting hairs.
Tell me what ya'll think abou this. I was thinking about the belief in the catholic church that by praying to the departed saints
Catholics and Protestants may have their theologic differences, but in the final analysis, we are really only splitting hairs.
12-09-2004, 09:42 AM
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Re: BDRamsey
Originally posted by CaughtinmyGrill
In your post above, you have articulated a common misconception about the Catholic faith. You typed:
Catholics don't pray TO Saints, they ask Saints to pray FOR us........
In your post above, you have articulated a common misconception about the Catholic faith. You typed:
Catholics don't pray TO Saints, they ask Saints to pray FOR us........
12-09-2004, 10:11 AM
#387
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if the saints are physically alive then I have no gripe. The only link I was referring to was asking departed people to intervene on a non-departed persons behalf.
What is it called when a person talks to or asks a departed person something?
Call it what you want. The definition of asking dead people to intervene is still defined as necromancy.
There is no splitting hairs.
Theological differences:
I never said that the catholic bible was incorrect, as a matter of fact, the catholic bible runs almost completely parralel to the king james version. The catholic bible has a few additional books bound inside it's covers, but what books match the king james vesion are almost identical.
Final analysis:
The fundamental foundation required by both beliefs consists of Jesus being the son of God, Jesus making payment for our sins.
the only beef I really have with the catholic church is two fold. the first is Mary being exalted. Mary was a woman, she was the one woman that God chose to bring himself to earth through. What was his reasoning? Not because Mary was perfect or sin free, Mary was a person born into sin just like anyone else in the human race. She was no different than Joseph, Joseph is not exalted because he raised God incarnate. The second is that Jesus is the only intermediate between God and man. Not a priest, or a preacher. Jesus is the only bridge to God. In the old testament there was an appointed representative of God, this was the high priest. When Jesus came and handled his business that tradition was completed, there was no need for it anymore.
But, the bottom line is that each of us must make our own decisions. We must each read our bible, catholic or protestant. since we will be held to account for our actions, I am much more comfortable reading with my own eyes rather than having it interpreted or read to me by somone else.
But, that's only my .02. To each thier own.
What is it called when a person talks to or asks a departed person something?
Call it what you want. The definition of asking dead people to intervene is still defined as necromancy.
There is no splitting hairs.
Theological differences:
I never said that the catholic bible was incorrect, as a matter of fact, the catholic bible runs almost completely parralel to the king james version. The catholic bible has a few additional books bound inside it's covers, but what books match the king james vesion are almost identical.
Final analysis:
The fundamental foundation required by both beliefs consists of Jesus being the son of God, Jesus making payment for our sins.
the only beef I really have with the catholic church is two fold. the first is Mary being exalted. Mary was a woman, she was the one woman that God chose to bring himself to earth through. What was his reasoning? Not because Mary was perfect or sin free, Mary was a person born into sin just like anyone else in the human race. She was no different than Joseph, Joseph is not exalted because he raised God incarnate. The second is that Jesus is the only intermediate between God and man. Not a priest, or a preacher. Jesus is the only bridge to God. In the old testament there was an appointed representative of God, this was the high priest. When Jesus came and handled his business that tradition was completed, there was no need for it anymore.
But, the bottom line is that each of us must make our own decisions. We must each read our bible, catholic or protestant. since we will be held to account for our actions, I am much more comfortable reading with my own eyes rather than having it interpreted or read to me by somone else.
But, that's only my .02. To each thier own.
12-09-2004, 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by bdramsey
........Mary was a person born into sin just like anyone else in the human race. She was no different than Joseph,............
........Mary was a person born into sin just like anyone else in the human race. She was no different than Joseph,............
Where does the Bible say this? My question is rhetorical because there isn't anywhere it will say this. Likewise, it won't confirm Catholics' belief that Mary was born without sin; that she was conceived as the perfect vessel to be the "Mother of God" (that should stir things up). This is a scholarly assumption that is part of the Catholic dogma.
Mary is venerated and honored (not worshipped) by Catholics as the Mother of the Church. Without her, the most basic tenet of Christianity, the Trinity would not be fullfilled.
I wish I had more time for debate as I find this to be a facinating subject, but work calls...yelling at this point.
