t-15 firefighter

Okay,

You still didn’t answer my question about Job. I guess I’m not going to get a straight answer. Everything you wrote I understand. I’ve heard it over and over in church but that wasn’t my question.

My question is: Who wrote the story of Job and how would anyone know what god and satan were doing? How do we know any of their conversations? Did god come down and tell someone “Hey this is what satan and I was talking about…. Now write this down”????? How do you know that the story of Job or any other far-fetched stories in the bible are true? Everyone keeps quoting scripture but not answering the real questions.

Oh yeah, Job was in the old testament and Jesus was in the new. I doubt Job cared what Jesus thought since he wasn’t around yet. Maybe god though.

No one knows who wrote it? They are just guessing?

“But one thing is certain: it was given to us by the holy sprit”

If we don’t even know who wrote it then how can we be sure it was given to us by this holy sprit????

I realize religion is something that just has to be taken on faith alone. It would be nice if there were some facts supporting it. Any of it. Especially the old testament.



Britt

Begle1

Old testament has lots of facts. Old Romans talking about it from different points of view, archaelogical evidence and everybody in proximity to the Middle East at the time knew something was going on.

Nobody really knows where Job comes from; people think it was written by Job, Soloman or Moses somewhere in the Palestinian area and don't really know when it was written. (Although Jesus wasn't around yet. )

I think it's one of those books in there for the story, not for the apologies. Then again, its kind of intresting how they picked the books to go into the Bible to begin with. The Catholics supposedly have the other couple dozen gospels locked in a vault some where...

bdramsey

The WHOLE KEY to salvation is FAITH without faith it is ALL futile and useless. The Bible clearly states what will happen to the UNBELIEVING.

Begle1

I thought that the key to salvation was to live for love and selflessness, whether it be for God or other humans. Faith in the Bible is more of a theme in WHY human's should live out of love rather than greed. Faith is WHY you live that way, not HOW you live. And once you live in the bliss which is love, you need no faith, it is real and you cannot abandon it once you feel it. Love for a wife is the same as love for God, and living for this love instead of for yourself is what gets you to heaven. Faith, in and out of itself, is a rather overstressed part of the Bible.

bdramsey

The key to salvation is believing in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead (which requires faith, since not a single one of us was there), and confessing with your mouth the admission and repentance of being a sinner (which by faith that your sins have been forgiven)
And it all hinges on faith which comes from God alone, we don't have any faith of our own, we just have what God gives us. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the word of God. And as far as love goes, God is love, and only those that love are of God.

Faith is not neccisarrily overstressed, but very important, so important that so many examples, and instances invole faith, because it is so essential to salvation.

dieselminded

Will this thread go on forever ??

I wonder witch thread has got the most views/replies???

This has got to be close GJ- BD

DM
GOD -'04

Begle1

Love is the viewing of something as perfection... When humans view something as perfection, they become selfless towards it... When a human is selfless out of love it is the only time on the world that a human may reach a state of infinite ecstasy, a bliss resulting from being in the presence of such perfection. This is what the Bible teaches above all else. You must abandon self intrest to reach happiness, and once you forget about yourself, you reach a state of heaven on Earth. The trick is, this is a plateau of joy which cannot be reached out of self-intrest, only a total lack thereof.

Anyways, if you live out of love, you are living as God desires you to. If you don't, you can't get to heaven.
If you don't believe in God and Jesus, you can't get to heaven. So you are true, you must have faith to reach heaven. But love is so much more important to find- in my experience, at least, it was the love for a woman which caused me to find faith, not the other way around. You cannot understand Jesus, a man who broke every human algorithm in the book out of love for humanity, and went to hell for it; a man who acheived a state of infinite anguish out of total love, without experiencing love itself. And that is of utmost importance. If only it wasn't such an arbitrary emotion.

bdramsey

Both are very essential, faith and love, they work hand in hand. The greatest commandment and the second equally important. So we are both right

winkle

t-7 firefighter


Your question was, who wrote the book of JOB? I don't know, only God knows the real truth. If you knew who wrote it then would you belive it?

We know that Moses wrote the book of Gensis, do you belive what was writen in that book?

There are a lot of things that are writen in the bilble that I myself find hard to under stand. I belive it on faith, the same way that I belive that Clombus founded America, or Lewis & Clark and there travles. I wasn't there so I really don't know if it really happen I just have to have faith that what is writen in history books is true. I have that same faith in the bible because it is backed up by 1,000's of scrolls by many differnt authors writen in differnt time periods of the same accounts but differnt points of veiw. It's really hard for me NOT to belive that so many writers from differnt time periods could write about events that happen and have there account of what happen coincide with each other, to me that could only happen by some divine intervention, which brings me back to how Job was writen.

t-15 firefighter

No probably not, but it would at least be a start. My other question about Job was how do we know what god and satan were talking about. How do we know what their conversations were? At some point and time we would have to believe that god came down and said “here it is boys write it down!” Now I know that some of you will say that he did through the burning bush but that is just a fanciful story to me.




Absolutely not. In no way do I think that the earth was formed in this way. I don’t believe that woman came from the rib of a man. Nor do I believe in a talking serpent or the great flood. These are all impossibilities given all of the scientific fact supporting otherwise (I know I will get creamed for that comment).
I tend to believe in the general evolution of man and all living creatures. Not that we came from apes but just that living things evolve to their surroundings. Some species made it some didn’t. We did and that is a proven fact.
I do believe in a god. I don’t think this all just happened. I just take a more moderate stance when it comes to religions. I don’t believe anyone has it right but I don’t believe anyone is completely wrong either.






The difference in the stories in the bible and real history is there isn’t any far-fetched tales in regular history. I don’t remember studying Lewis & Clark and reading in their journals about a burning bush or the Indians parting the Missouri River so they could get across. We can still trace their journey with their journals and it is accurate so you really didn’t have to be there. Same thing with John Wesley Powell and his journey through the Grand Canyon. We weren’t there to see that but we all know it took place though his journals.
Columbus discovering the Americas. We’ve got a pretty good idea on this but no one is completely sure where he actually landed. The best theory is the Plana Cays, but no one knows for sure. Now this is something that happened a little more than 500 years ago and is a pretty popular story wouldn’t you say? But we are not sure exactly what happened. This story has also been written about thousands of times but we are still not sure.

So to me the theory of all the different translations and all the scrolls doesn’t really hold water. There are just as many discrepancies as there are agreements in the bible.

Someone made a very good point earlier in this thread: It is like that game you played when you were a child. Someone would tell you a word and you would have to repeat that word to the next person and so on. By the time it made it back around it would NEVER be right. Same thing with all the different translations of the bible.

You are right though. You must be able to take it on faith. If this story didn’t have anything to do with religion, people would never believe it.


Once again…. Just my take.



Britt

Hannibal

t-7 I have to agree with you on the Genesis thing. There are literally milllions of different species of animals and plant life from microscopic to mamoth. That alone discounts both Genesis and Noah's ark. But to suggest that God created woman for Adam without knowledge of right and wrong only to punish her and Adam for eternity for eating of the tree of knowledge thereby learning the difference between right and wrong, is contradictory. How could she be held accountable for doing wrong if she didn't know the difference until after the fact. Sounds like she was baited and framed. What a convenient way to blame women for all our ills.
Then Cain brought offerings of berries and fruit to God while Abel brought flesh of animals he had killed. God favored the dead animal flesh so Cain slew Abel? For one, I wouldn't favor one child over the other for their different offerings if they were genuine from the heart. However, if one of my children brought me fruit and berries and the other one killed my dog to bring me some of his dead flesh, guess which one I'd be upset with. The first two children born on earth and this is how it ends up. At least Seth turned out ok...

t-15 firefighter

Did I suggest that? If I did I sure didn’t mean too. Maybe I’m misunderstanding your quote.


I don’t believe any of Genesis.

I’m sure I’m misunderstanding.



Britt

Hannibal

No no no... The book of Genesis suggests that, not you...

ftltmp

t-7 firefighter
To answer your question , Job wrote Job, if you read the book of Job you will find that it is written in 1st person "I" if someone else had written it , it would have said "he, him , etc".

Haulin_in_Dixie

T7 you need to look into history better on the flood issue. It is fairly well documented in all ancient texts of any religion or civilization. There are several theories on how this could have happened. One that sounds fairly realistic follows.

Before the flood there was no rain "for a mist used to rise to water the plants" There also was no sunshine proved by the fact that no rainbow had been seen. Men also lived many times as long. Sun is the aging process, no sun, not as much aging.

Other religions and ours also, along with other documents and beliefs, refer to the Canopy of heaven. An actual canopy that was above the earth. A canopy as in the ice rings around Saturn, that shielded the earth from the sun. Something happened causing the collapse of the rings or canopy, causing rain in immense amounts and finally allowing the sunshine in the area of the recorded Biblical events.

This rain both from the weight and the cooling effect on the earth caused a cataclysm that more or less reformed the proportioning of the dry land and ocean levels and areas.

Is this a fact, I certainly don't know, but it is a plausible reasoning to the events recorded in hundreds of writings around the earth. After it was over, the rainbow appeared. It is also promised in no uncertain circumstances that this could never happen again, and man then was to live 70 years from that point on.

Food for thought if noting else.

T7 you have just never had that serious a disaster in your immediate family, that is where you kneel and pray in desperation. I have seen the miracle happen, and I am not even referring to my grandson this year. A much more dramatic situation.

It only takes on instance in pure desperation to cause you to have faith and believe.