Biblical References
10-14-2004, 09:40 AM
#302
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Originally posted by crobtex
Finally what?
Also, how long was a "day" during the creation?
Finally what?
Also, how long was a "day" during the creation?
Finally someone gets it.
I agree with him!
Britt
10-14-2004, 03:53 PM
#304
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Here is my take on how long a “day” is. The idea of thousands or millions of years, I believe, comes from the fossil record. When we allow for millions of years, we also allow for the fossil record to be millions of years old. This creates an enormous and detrimental problem regarding the bible. The fossil record also consists of the death of billions of creatures. In fact, it is a record of death, disease, suffering, cruelty, and brutality. The Bible is adamant though, that death, disease, and suffering came into the world as a result of sin. The bible says god instituted death and bloodshed because of sin so man could be redeemed. When you allow for death, suffering, and disease before sin, then the whole foundations of the message of the cross and the atonement have been destroyed. The doctrine of original sin, then, is totally undermined.
Many use scripture to try to justify that the days of creation are long periods of time; they usually quote passages such as 2 Peter 3:8... one day is with the Lord as a thousand years ...'. Because of this, they think the days could be a thousand years or perhaps even millions of years. However, if you look at the rest of the verse, it says, '... and a thousand years as one day'. This cancels out their argument! The context of this passage concerns the second coming. In both 2 Peter 3 and Psalm 90, the whole context is that god is limited neither by natural processes nor by time. There is no reference in either passage to the days of creation. So, to answer your question, I believe the writers of Genesis did mean that a day is 24 hours long. I believe that interpretation was not doubted only until modern archealogy came along. Since the fossil record now disagrees with the bible, Christians had to find a suitable explanation. Hence, the idea of a "thousand" days now puts the bible back into agreement with science, as long as you overlook the sin argument. How convenient.
This is just one example of many contradictions in the bible that further my belief the bible is not inspired or written by god, but by man to control man's behavior.
Many use scripture to try to justify that the days of creation are long periods of time; they usually quote passages such as 2 Peter 3:8... one day is with the Lord as a thousand years ...'. Because of this, they think the days could be a thousand years or perhaps even millions of years. However, if you look at the rest of the verse, it says, '... and a thousand years as one day'. This cancels out their argument! The context of this passage concerns the second coming. In both 2 Peter 3 and Psalm 90, the whole context is that god is limited neither by natural processes nor by time. There is no reference in either passage to the days of creation. So, to answer your question, I believe the writers of Genesis did mean that a day is 24 hours long. I believe that interpretation was not doubted only until modern archealogy came along. Since the fossil record now disagrees with the bible, Christians had to find a suitable explanation. Hence, the idea of a "thousand" days now puts the bible back into agreement with science, as long as you overlook the sin argument. How convenient.
This is just one example of many contradictions in the bible that further my belief the bible is not inspired or written by god, but by man to control man's behavior.
10-16-2004, 12:38 PM
#306
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For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:8-11
10-17-2004, 07:57 AM
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submitted for consideration
Genesis 1
1. In the beginning God *created* the heaven and the earth.
*to produce out of nothing*, used again in the fifth and sixth days for the introduction of life.
The verse is ended with a period, [full stop], it is a complete statement, to say I did it and that’s all I need to say to you about it.
Stated in another place,
Isaiah 45
18. For thus saith the Lord that *created* the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
{note the transition of verbs after the created statement to formed, made, established, etc.}
Between Vs 1 and Vs 2 some thing happened and time passes……………………..no human can calculate the amount, but we know what it was(not the object of this lesson).
2. And the earth *was* without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Or *became* the same precise form is thus translated in other parts of the Old Testament, as for axample, “But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Genesis 19:26. The Invisible War- Donald Gray Barnhouse.
Begin the reconstruction, NOT CREATION.
[beyond this point “the other verbs which are used to describe the work of the six days, such as made, divide, and set, are used elsewhere of work done with existing materials, as when a woman prepares a meal or a man builds a boat. The original creation was before the forming and fashioning.”] D. G. B.
3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9. And God said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13. And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21. And God *created* great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27. So God *created* man in his own image, in the image of God *created* he him; male and female *created* he them.
28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
1. In the beginning God *created* the heaven and the earth.
*to produce out of nothing*, used again in the fifth and sixth days for the introduction of life.
The verse is ended with a period, [full stop], it is a complete statement, to say I did it and that’s all I need to say to you about it.
Stated in another place,
Isaiah 45
18. For thus saith the Lord that *created* the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.
{note the transition of verbs after the created statement to formed, made, established, etc.}
Between Vs 1 and Vs 2 some thing happened and time passes……………………..no human can calculate the amount, but we know what it was(not the object of this lesson).
2. And the earth *was* without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Or *became* the same precise form is thus translated in other parts of the Old Testament, as for axample, “But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.” Genesis 19:26. The Invisible War- Donald Gray Barnhouse.
Begin the reconstruction, NOT CREATION.
[beyond this point “the other verbs which are used to describe the work of the six days, such as made, divide, and set, are used elsewhere of work done with existing materials, as when a woman prepares a meal or a man builds a boat. The original creation was before the forming and fashioning.”] D. G. B.
3. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6. And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9. And God said, Let the waters under the Heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
11. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
12. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
13. And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18. And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20. And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
21. And God *created* great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
22. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
23. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24. And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
25. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
26. And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27. So God *created* man in his own image, in the image of God *created* he him; male and female *created* he them.
28. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
29. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
30. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
31. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
10-17-2004, 03:39 PM
#309
Registered User
I have not gotten into this frey and don't plan on it. I want to say just one thing. If you believe in the Bible and what God says, it will not hurt you in any way. But if it is true and you don't follow it, you are in big trouble.
Feeling lucky? Go for it... We will all know one day (even if that is 1000 years)
Feeling lucky? Go for it... We will all know one day (even if that is 1000 years)
10-18-2004, 10:15 AM
#311
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Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
I have not gotten into this frey and don't plan on it. I want to say just one thing. If you believe in the Bible and what God says, it will not hurt you in any way. But if it is true and you don't follow it, you are in big trouble.
I have not gotten into this frey and don't plan on it. I want to say just one thing. If you believe in the Bible and what God says, it will not hurt you in any way. But if it is true and you don't follow it, you are in big trouble.
I have never understood quotes like this. If you believe, it won’t hurt you? So some of you believe just to be safe? Otherwise you wouldn’t believe right?
I don’t understand how someone could believe in a god that would practice this type of judgment. “You either believe in me or I will send you to this place of fire for eternity”. Doesn’t really leave you much choice now does it????
Have any of you thought of where those stories came from in the bible? Lets take the story of Lucifer being tossed out of heaven. We have the story of this epic battle in heaven with Lucifer and his followers being banished from heaven. Thus created good and evil (this is an extremely short version I know, but you know the story). Who do you think wrote this? Man did. God didn’t just fax down a copy of the bible and say “here it is guys, do what I say”. No… some guy had a dream or thought he was talking to a burning bush or thought the sky was talking to him and he wrote it down as fact. And some of you believe it. If someone did this now you would think he was a fruit but you have no trouble accepting it because someone wrote it down a few thousand years ago. “Times were different back then” some will say. Yeah but not really. People are people and they have an innate desire to believe in something bigger then themselves. But some believe it because they say god himself inspired the writing. How do you know this? What makes you capable of believing this but not anything else? We have all of these scientific FACTS but some of you still choose to ignore them. Man came up with scientific facts also but you choose to believe the burning bush story rather than the facts.
I still stand by my argument that you will pretty much have the beliefs of your surroundings that you were brought up in.
There are some that serve the lord and church their entire lives. They live by this unattainable code that man will always fall short of. You only get one time down here. No more. Life is not a dress rehearsal. It is the real deal. These people that choose to be priest or nuns seem to me to be wasted lives. I know they do good work and are serving a noble purpose but they don’t get to come back to this earth. So I bring up the opposite question. What happens if there isn’t anything after death? These people spent their whole lives living in strict discipline for nothing. Now before I get a bunch of P.M.’s about priest and nuns… I have nothing against them. I am just using them as an example.
I enjoy my life. I don’t get caught up in the guilt that is associated with religion. I am a moral person. I don’t steal or lie, I am a good husband and I don’t cheat on my wife. I think I will be a good father to my unborn child and I will do the best that I can to help the community that I serve. If something goes wrong in my life I don't ask god why or blame him. But if something goes right I don't think that it is gods work either. I always think of the football player that prays when he makes a touchdown. Why is this? You never see him after the game saying "yeah I would have made that touchdown if Jesus hadn't made me fumble"
Don’t get me wrong… I believe religion does some people good and I think the church serves a purpose. Just not for me.
Originally posted by Haulin_in_Dixie
Feeling lucky? Go for it... We will all know one day (even if that is 1000 years)
Feeling lucky? Go for it... We will all know one day (even if that is 1000 years)
Let the flaming begin.... again
Britt
