Biblical References
#226
Originally posted by Palmetto_kid
It doesent? What if a person believes with all his heart, mind, & soul that in one book lies the Truth of all creation. The Truth that tells him to spread the Good News, and be a tree that bears fuit. What if his faith is so great that he believes without a doubt every promise that Jesus has made to him? What if his faith is so great that he believes that Jesus is the ultimate truth?
So Mr. Miller, its ok for me to believe through faith, but I cant tell anyone else about it?
It doesent? What if a person believes with all his heart, mind, & soul that in one book lies the Truth of all creation. The Truth that tells him to spread the Good News, and be a tree that bears fuit. What if his faith is so great that he believes without a doubt every promise that Jesus has made to him? What if his faith is so great that he believes that Jesus is the ultimate truth?
So Mr. Miller, its ok for me to believe through faith, but I cant tell anyone else about it?
And I didn't say that you 'can't tell anyone else', that was not in my post. You may profess your faith to anyone and everyone you choose... I was just saying that having the strongest faith in the world doesn't necessarily make your particular belief the only absolute and correct truth.
#227
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
Originally posted by smiller
If a person's faith is great and it helps the feel fulfilled then that's fine, but a strong faith doesn't make something absolutely and ultimately true, except to the believer perhaps. How does having a strong faith make anything true? Muslims have a very strong faith too, does that add credibility to their beliefs?
And I didn't say that you 'can't tell anyone else', that was not in my post. You may profess your faith to anyone and everyone you choose... I was just saying that having the strongest faith in the world doesn't necessarily make your particular belief the only absolute and correct truth.
If a person's faith is great and it helps the feel fulfilled then that's fine, but a strong faith doesn't make something absolutely and ultimately true, except to the believer perhaps. How does having a strong faith make anything true? Muslims have a very strong faith too, does that add credibility to their beliefs?
And I didn't say that you 'can't tell anyone else', that was not in my post. You may profess your faith to anyone and everyone you choose... I was just saying that having the strongest faith in the world doesn't necessarily make your particular belief the only absolute and correct truth.
I've seen lots of opinions posted in this thread...some of which I find very sad and disturbing. Think of it this way....it's possible for us all to be wrong....but it's impossible for us all to be right. There is an absolute truth...and that truth can be found by opening your heart to God's word.
#229
Merely believing in something doesn't make it true, and simply claiming over and over again that your own personal belief is infallible doesn't change that. Can't change that.
But I do agree with Hoss in that I've also found several posts in this thread to be pretty sad and disturbing.
But I do agree with Hoss in that I've also found several posts in this thread to be pretty sad and disturbing.
#230
Thats MR Hoss to you buddy!
True...but NOT believing doesn't make it false either.....and simply denying over and over again that what you WANT to be false is NOT false doesn't change the fact that it just might be true.
Just remember....ignorance is no longer an excuse once you've been educated. "Every knee will bow".....and with that....I bow out. I have avoided this debate thus far and I don't care to get into it now. If anyone wants further discussion with me then feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Y'all take care and God bless.
Just remember....ignorance is no longer an excuse once you've been educated. "Every knee will bow".....and with that....I bow out. I have avoided this debate thus far and I don't care to get into it now. If anyone wants further discussion with me then feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Y'all take care and God bless.
#231
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Originally posted by HOHN
OK, I'll bite.
The issue of homosexual choice is one loaded with implications. One side views homosexuality as a conscious choice, which implies accountability. The other believes that sexuality is pre-ordained at birth, so therefore it would be unfair to judge someone for doing that which they are predisposed to.
OK, I'll bite.
The issue of homosexual choice is one loaded with implications. One side views homosexuality as a conscious choice, which implies accountability. The other believes that sexuality is pre-ordained at birth, so therefore it would be unfair to judge someone for doing that which they are predisposed to.
Agreed……
Originally posted by HOHN
1) The choice of homosexuality is choosing whether or not you will restrain your immoral impulses. Thus, THERE IS A CHOICE.
1) The choice of homosexuality is choosing whether or not you will restrain your immoral impulses. Thus, THERE IS A CHOICE.
Disagree…. Contrary to what you believe, homosexuality is NOT a choice no more than it is a choice for you to be heterosexual. I ask you once again: When did you get to choose to be a heterosexual???? At what point and time? I never got to choose. I have always liked females. If it is a choice that homosexuals make then it has to be a choice that heterosexuals make also. This seems VERY simple and straightforward.
Originally posted by HOHN
2) It is NOT a proven fact that homosexuals are "born that way" any more than one person is born a murderer, another is born a thief, or another a child molester. This is just another attempt to absolve someone of being responsible for their decisions. Moreover, saying that "it's a proven fact" is simply an unadulturated lie. There's no science in it, and no fact in it. It hasn't been proved. It's not something that COULD be proved, even if it were true. The "proven fact" fallacy is common among those who have little scientific training or experience, as this is nothing something that's even relevant to "proof".
2) It is NOT a proven fact that homosexuals are "born that way" any more than one person is born a murderer, another is born a thief, or another a child molester. This is just another attempt to absolve someone of being responsible for their decisions. Moreover, saying that "it's a proven fact" is simply an unadulturated lie. There's no science in it, and no fact in it. It hasn't been proved. It's not something that COULD be proved, even if it were true. The "proven fact" fallacy is common among those who have little scientific training or experience, as this is nothing something that's even relevant to "proof".
Disagree…. I don’t remember calling you a liar as you have done in this quote. It IS a PROVEN FACT. It can be PROVED over and over again. Did you know that the human species is not the only species with homosexuality in it?
Here is a quote:
National Geographic special, "The New Chimpanzees" which aired September 6, 1995 - "Diverse and frequent hetero- and homosexual contact occurs among the animals. . . . Not only does homosexual behavior exist in nearly every species of every order of animal known to science (a fact demonstrated repeatedly by uncounted studies beginning with Konrad Lorenz, the father of modern zoology) but as one ascends the evolutionary ladder from less sophisticated creatures to hominids, homosexual activity increases in frequency."
Just because you choose to ignore the FACTS does not make it untrue.
I also resent this accusation
Originally posted by HOHN
The "proven fact" fallacy is common among those who have little scientific training or experience, as this is nothing something that's even relevant to "proof".
The "proven fact" fallacy is common among those who have little scientific training or experience, as this is nothing something that's even relevant to "proof".
I could give you countless examples of proof but would you believe them? Even if it was the most infallible proof you would not believe it.
Originally posted by HOHN
3)Christianity is inherently closed-minded.
3)Christianity is inherently closed-minded.
AGREED!!!!!
Originally posted by HOHN
At least you had this part right:
If you are not Christian then you are going to hell. If you are a homosexual you are going to hell. If you don’t repent your sins you are going to hell.
At least you had this part right:
If you are not Christian then you are going to hell. If you are a homosexual you are going to hell. If you don’t repent your sins you are going to hell.
According to your belief. Not mine. You can never make me believe that someone that hasn’t had a chance to learn about Christianity is going to this so called hell.
Justin,
You started off strong in this post. You brought up some really good points, some that I haven’t considered. Your post was well thought out and very detailed. I know that you and I differ in our beliefs and probably always will.
The ending of the post left something to be desired though.
Britt
#232
Originally posted by Hoss
True...but NOT believing doesn't make it false either.....and simply denying over and over again that what you WANT to be false is NOT false doesn't change the fact that it just might be true.
Just remember....ignorance is no longer an excuse once you've been educated. "Every knee will bow".....and with that....I bow out. I have avoided this debate thus far and I don't care to get into it now. If anyone wants further discussion with me then feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Y'all take care and God bless.
True...but NOT believing doesn't make it false either.....and simply denying over and over again that what you WANT to be false is NOT false doesn't change the fact that it just might be true.
Just remember....ignorance is no longer an excuse once you've been educated. "Every knee will bow".....and with that....I bow out. I have avoided this debate thus far and I don't care to get into it now. If anyone wants further discussion with me then feel free to PM or e-mail me.
Y'all take care and God bless.
Just remember....ignorance is no longer an excuse once you've been educated.
Anyway, I'm outta here too. Everyone have a good life, afterlife, or whatever...
#234
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Re: I'm in trouble now....
Originally posted by HOHN
I know I'll catch flak for this, but I've always considered Mormonism to be a cult. It has all the earmarkings of a cult.
Do the research. If you haven't even heard of the "salamander letter" then you have more research to do.
Speaking with excommunicated Mormons who have since accepted Christ on a personal level has revealed some interesting things about the "church", its history and its leadership-- it's both eye-opening and frightening.
Justin
I know I'll catch flak for this, but I've always considered Mormonism to be a cult. It has all the earmarkings of a cult.
Do the research. If you haven't even heard of the "salamander letter" then you have more research to do.
Speaking with excommunicated Mormons who have since accepted Christ on a personal level has revealed some interesting things about the "church", its history and its leadership-- it's both eye-opening and frightening.
Justin
The adage, "if it walks like a cult, quacks like a cult, it must be a cult" pretty much fits.
Yes, there are some strange traditions and rituals,
but don't all organized religions have traditions and rituals that to an outsider would appear quite odd?
Excommunicated folk aren't the best sources of information.
They're not going to have anything good to say about the group that booted them.
They are also known to exaggerate some facts, if not out and out making them up.
Talk to excommunicated members of any religion, and you'll hear much of the same talk.
The Salamander Letter was proven to be one of may forgeries penned by Mark Hoffman, who confessed to forging hundreds of documents twisting the history and traditions of the LDS Church.
phox
#235
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Originally posted by phox_mulder
Mormon is the name of the prophet who wrote the first chapter.
phox
Mormon is the name of the prophet who wrote the first chapter.
phox
I figure since there is so much discord, I figure we might as well try to learn somthing about the other beliefs. Instead of this being a controversial thread, then I for one would like to be educated. Just because I disagree does'nt mean that I can't learn what other's believe.
Thanks Phox I only knew one man who was Mormon, and he never talked about his beliefs.
#236
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Originally posted by bdramsey
So the first book is'nt Genesis? Or is it the Mormon version of the Hebrew Genesis?
I figure since there is so much discord, I figure we might as well try to learn somthing about the other beliefs. Instead of this being a controversial thread, then I for one would like to be educated. Just because I disagree does'nt mean that I can't learn what other's believe.
Thanks Phox I only knew one man who was Mormon, and he never talked about his beliefs.
So the first book is'nt Genesis? Or is it the Mormon version of the Hebrew Genesis?
I figure since there is so much discord, I figure we might as well try to learn somthing about the other beliefs. Instead of this being a controversial thread, then I for one would like to be educated. Just because I disagree does'nt mean that I can't learn what other's believe.
Thanks Phox I only knew one man who was Mormon, and he never talked about his beliefs.
They also have the Book of Mormon, Doctorine and Covenents and Pearl of Great Price.
This is often referred to as the triple combination.
Book of Mormon is a record of what Jesus did after he was crucified and ressurected.
He visited the indigenous people of the New World, that being South and North America, and taught the same stuff he taught the Old World while he was alive the first time.
It is commonly believed that the Mayan were the indegenous folk.
Symbols and stories found in the Mayan ruins have been found that refer to a "being" that visited many moons ago and taught them.
Doctorine and Covenents and PofGP were written by Jo Smith and the leaders of the day back then.
phox
#237
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That does kinda make sense, since there is alot of beliefs that were in south/central america, and even here in north america. I have wondered where they came up with thier belief.
After the tower of Babel, there really is'nt anything mentioned about what led the other countries to believe in a diety. These other folks knew of a diety, but I wondered where they got the info.
Did Jesus goto these other places after his crucifixion? The book of Mormon says so, but I don't recall any mention of this in the Bible as we know it today.
I do think that there are possibly other books that were written, but alot of the New Testament consists of letters that were archived. Could there be more out there? Possibly. But then again who was responsible for deciding what the contents of the Bible as we know it today? I know that the Catholic Bible contains additional books that the Christian Bible does'nt contain. I don't remember what they are. Hmmm. Things that make ya think........
After the tower of Babel, there really is'nt anything mentioned about what led the other countries to believe in a diety. These other folks knew of a diety, but I wondered where they got the info.
Did Jesus goto these other places after his crucifixion? The book of Mormon says so, but I don't recall any mention of this in the Bible as we know it today.
I do think that there are possibly other books that were written, but alot of the New Testament consists of letters that were archived. Could there be more out there? Possibly. But then again who was responsible for deciding what the contents of the Bible as we know it today? I know that the Catholic Bible contains additional books that the Christian Bible does'nt contain. I don't remember what they are. Hmmm. Things that make ya think........
#238
If I may ask a stupid question.....................
Why did god allow the serpant in the garden of eden in the first place??
With out it their would'nt of been no temptation and it'd still be heaven on earth.
Why did god allow the serpant in the garden of eden in the first place??
With out it their would'nt of been no temptation and it'd still be heaven on earth.
#239
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God created Lucifer a perfect, sinless angel. Lucifer made a devil of himself. Freedom to choose is a cornerstone principle of God's government. God knew Lucifer would sin when He created him. If at that point God had refused to create him, He would have been repudiating that prime principle of free choice.
So, knowing full well what Lucifer would do, God still created him. The same facts apply to the creation of Adam and Eve. And, closer to home, these facts apply to you and me. God knows before we are born how we will live, but even so, He permits us to live and choose whether to endorse His government or Satan's. God is willing to be misunderstood and falsely accused and blamed for ages, while taking the time to allow every person to freely choose whom he will follow.
So, knowing full well what Lucifer would do, God still created him. The same facts apply to the creation of Adam and Eve. And, closer to home, these facts apply to you and me. God knows before we are born how we will live, but even so, He permits us to live and choose whether to endorse His government or Satan's. God is willing to be misunderstood and falsely accused and blamed for ages, while taking the time to allow every person to freely choose whom he will follow.
#240
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Originally posted by dieselminded
If I may ask a stupid question.....................
Why did god allow the serpant in the garden of eden in the first place??
With out it their would'nt of been no temptation and it'd still be heaven on earth.
If I may ask a stupid question.....................
Why did god allow the serpant in the garden of eden in the first place??
With out it their would'nt of been no temptation and it'd still be heaven on earth.
Heaven on earth, but no one to enjoy it.
phox