bdramsey

t-7 That is a beautiful rig!


Stylin!!!!!!!1

smiller

Thanks for putting up with all of my questions! But... it's hard to get a clear understanding when I can't seem to get a clear answer to these few questions I have asked. These questions seem kind of central to our discussion so it seems kind of important that the answers be well understood.

Is it permissible to stone a rebellious son to death as stated in Deuteronomy 21:18-21? Yes or no? So far I have received a response about this being in the Old Testament, but I'm not sure why that is important. Can items in the Old Testamant be ignored?

Is it required that your wife never speak in church as stated in Corinthians 14:34-35? Yes or no? I have received a response that 'some' Christians follow this tenet. Do only 'some' have to obey the bible, or all?

I have received a response that questions can be answered by talking to a pastor or through prayer. Can man (even a pastor) modify what is said in clear text in the bible? If the results of an individual person's prayers conflict with the bible, is the individual allowed to do as he sees fit?

Is the bible to be taken literally and obeyed as the infallible word of God, as has been stated by many, or can one pick and choose? Is it ever permissible to ignore biblical law and use contemporary standards in their place? If so, how do you know which laws can be modified to suit modern understandings and which must be followed to the letter?

I think everyone will agree that this is a critical understanding and I've tried to state these questions as clearly as possible in hope of getting a clear answer. Several of you out there seem to have a very firm understanding of what you believe, would you mind taking and answering each of these questions? bdramsey has already been kind enough to answer but I'd to like to hear from a few others as well. It would really help...

Thanks -

t-15 firefighter

i agree in america it would be difficult to find someone that hasn't heard of god and jesus. i guess you better thank your god that you weren't born in the african plain then. otherwise you would be going to hell.

if that is turly the christian belief then that religion is not for me. i could never believe in a god that practiced that type of judgement. talk about not being fair



thank you for the comment on my truck. i think those are still the pictures of my 03 but the new 05 looks exactly like it except for the tailgate badges. i keep meaning to update the pictures but i haven't had enough time lately.

bdramsey

I do got an excellent atta boy for the latter day saints church. They have an excellent variety of information out there, just free for the asking. Free bibles, and videos. And they also made that show "davey and goliath" that I grew up watching. That was excellent. It is very difficult to find anything at all for children to watch nowadays.

GIT-R-DONE

This is a great post to read and try to understand. I too have many questions concerning the bible. I am saved and pray frequently, although I do not go to a church on a regular basis. Much of the bible is hard for me to interpret and understand it is for what is written. I will have some quesions to post as they come to mind.

One of my first questions is concerning gays, especially as preachers. One post above said something about women being preachers.....what is the take on gays not only being preachers ( as I have read about in the news ) but as their lifestyle?

I do know that many times I wish I had something to go to to know where to look in the bible for different circumstances that come up in daily life. Ex. would be.....divorce. What scripture is there for people that are going though a divorce that would comfort them in knowing that it is ok, or better that they will be ok.

Do yall understand what I mean by that? Daily life scriptures...comforting a child when his pet dies......grandparent dies, parent. Is there a web site that has something like that, that also explains it as well?

I am just getting started on this subject......great post......or did I already say that?

bdramsey

welcome aboard GIT-R-DONE

I'll give my take on what I think you are asking, not everyone here agrees with my rationalization, but then again I don't agree with everyone elses rationalization either. But we want to keep this thread civil, and considerate. So far we have all been able to do this, and I hope we can keep it up.

Gays as preachers-
I'm not gay bashing. I don't agree with gay bashing. If somone is gay, then that doesn't make them a bad individual. But, the same thing goes for a liar and a thief. They are not bad people either.
Some people will through the bible at gay people, and then wonder why they are called bashers.
Besides the obvious drawbacks of the gay lifestyle. i.e. unable to have any possibility of reproduction, having two hardwired thinking processes. Then what is left for a relationship? Does the word of God say that homosexuality is wrong? No, it doesn't. It says that it is an abomination to God. Does God love homosexuals? Yes, he does. It is discussed in both the old testament, and in the new testament. If you want the references I can provide those.
If homosexuality is wrong as a lifestlye, then it would be wrong in a leadership role also. i.e. preaching.

You mention that when you read the Bible, muchof it does'nt make sense. It is impossible for anyone to understand, unless God opens thier eyes. The Bible is very blunt in the way that God deals with people. It says (in layman terms) that if somone refuses to listen to God, then he will turn them over to themselves.

We all have a conscience. Our conscience tells us when somthing is wrong, or when we have done somthing wrong we feel guilty about it.
With any lifestyle, not singling out the homosexual, but all alternative lifstyles is what I mean. For example does'nt beastiality seem wrong? why does it seem wrong? It would at first, but eventually they would get over it, and it would'nt bother them anymore. The same goes for pedophilia, at first it is uncomfotable, then the uncomfotablness goes away. The same with fornication (sex before marraige).

All these things God has said were wrong, and sinful. Perversness to be exact.

Divorce is fine as long as neither one ever has sex again with somone else. Does that make it good? No. When two people are married, they are no longer individuals, but are joined together. Being divorced is like losing part of yourself. The bible does say that if a man divorces his wife and she has sex with somone else, then he will be responible for her adultry. Does that mean that God hates somone that got divorced? No it does'nt.

God hates sin. When a person repents of thier sin, when God sees us he no longer sees the blackness of sin, but the whitness of Jesus. Thier sin is remembered no more. Will that person screw up again and sin? Probably, but God looks on the heart and he knows if a person is truly remorseful for re-commiting sin. If a person is truly remoreseful and repents again, God forgives and forgets the sin again. It's not as simple as saying "I'm Sorry". It is more I'm sorry, and I will do my very best not to sin again, I need your help. We have no strength of our own, but strength from Jesus who now lives inside us.

The best way to learn the bible, is to pray first asking God to help you understand, then read it yourself. What I understand may be different than what you understand. That is because God deals with each of us differently. In a way that each of us can understand.


The verses in reference to your questions you posted are:
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Le 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
Le 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

That is a few that deal with sexual immorality

Here's one for divorce:

Mt 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

Hope that doesn't run you off, but these scriptures are a few that deal with those topics.

bdramsey

remember, this is the way that I understand it, I take the bible literally, if it says that all are born into sin, and the only way to goto heaven is by being "born again", and we are to go teach it to the ends of the earth. Then by my process of elimination, that makes sense to me that they would goto hell. I know it seems harsh, well it does'nt seem harsh it just is. But, that's the way my logic takes me. Where does yours take you?

Mexstan

There are many different versions of the Bible available. They all basically say the same thing but using different language to try and make it easy to understand. Over the years I have looked at many different Bibles and for me the one that beats the others for ease of understanding is the "Life Application Bible". It is a NIV (New International Version) but where it beats the others is that at the bottom of every page is an expansion of many verses. It which explains the meaning and often ties it in with other scriptures,
For those that have a hard time understanding the Bible, I suggest that you try this one.

There are some posts on this thread that I would like to comment on, but just don't have the time to do the research for a proper answer. Maybe for some of you that's good?

bdramsey

It seems like everyone has a grandparent that constantly dragged them to church. I was'nt that lucky. But, I was talking to a guy at work, and asked him if he was a Christian, and he told me he was, and I asked him if he where he went to church at, he said he does'nt because his grandparents dragged him to church all the time. I thought about what he said for a few minutes, and then asked him, Do you think that the old farts might have figured somthing out, and were just trying to help you? He said no, he thinks they were just trying to make him miserable. A little while later I heard him talking to somone else, just cussin up a storm. All I could do was walk off shaking my head.
No wonder people don't trust or believe us.

bdramsey

GIT-R-DONE


Here is a website that hopefully can help:

http://www.jewsforjesus.org/

This website could also answer some questions for those that question jewish history in reference to Jesus being the Messiah.

Hope it helps.

If nothing else, do a websearch using Google or another site, put in "Jesus", "Is the Bible true", Is the bible false", other things like that. You will find all kinds of websites. But, take your time and read CAREFULLY, Jesus said that there will be false Christs.

Brennan

Palmetto_kid

Giterdone,

Mexstan is right. I can not understand a King James version. It might as well be spanish, because I cant understand it. Go get yourself a Life Application Study Bible from your local Christian book store. It is NIV, and easier to read. It has foot notes that help you understand and apply the scripture to your life. It also has bio's of the different people in the Bible. These Bibles are very cool.

Also, in the back of each Bible, there should be a section that gives you different scriptures that will help you some of lifes troubles. I thinks its called the concordance. I know my Bible has it, and I dont have it with me right now, so I cant call the section by name.

While your in the bookstore, look for devotionals, and bible study courses. I recommend "The Purpose Driven Life". I have a small book with me right now called "The Bible Promis Book". It has chapters like: Anger, Fear, Gossip, Guilt, Hope & many more. It gives scripture to help with these feelings.

Gays as preachers? Homosexuality is wrong. Period.

I hope this is helpful Gitrdone.

To all the non-believers on this site, you have heard the Truth, and what you do with it is your business. If you want to know about my faith & commitment, PM me. I love my Father & His Son. I will gladly answer any of your questions the best that I can. Now lets get back to sniffing diesel!!


FWIW:

interesting reading

Here is a website a friend sent to me. Pretty cool stuff. I havent read through it all, but I figured I would share it. Maybe some of you guys have seen it before.

t-15 firefighter

I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this point. I know you will quote the bible about homosexuality but as most people know by now I don't really go by the bible.

My question is this.... when did you get to choose your sexuality? At what point did you get to choose whether you liked male or female? What age were you when you consciously chose?
I mean that’s what we are really talking about here is homosexuals have a choice right? They choose to be homosexual correct? Well if they chose to be homosexual when did you chose not to be? When????? I don’t ever remember getting to make that choice. I have always liked females.

Shoot…. I feel left out!

They got to choose and I didn’t. Darn!!!!

Homosexuals don’t chose to be homosexual any more then you chose to be heterosexual. It is a proven fact that homosexuals are born homosexual just as you are born heterosexual.

I guess my next question would be…. Why would you care? Why do you care if gays marry or serve in the military or preach? Is it hurting you in any way? It is this type of closed mindedness that turns me away from Christianity.

Jesus accepted everyone. He accepted people with diseases and women when it wasn’t popular. Yet from what I have learned from all of these posts so far are that Christians are about the least accepting people. If you are not Christian then you are going to hell. If you are a homosexual you are going to hell. If you don’t repent your sins you are going to hell. If you are born in the wrong part of the world you are going to hell. If you don’t change the oil in you Cummins you are going to hell.

Count me out



The truth according to you and how you interpret it. Not how I would interpret it.

Palmetto_kid

Thats cool. I didnt ask you to agree.

The man asked what we thought, I said what I thought. If you feel inclined to give him your input, then get after it. Thats what its all about.

This discussion has run its course. Im out.

t-15 firefighter

I apologize. I wasn’t trying to seem argumentative. I guess it just came out that way.

Once again I apologize.

Britt

bdramsey

I looked throught that wyatt site, it looks pretty interesting, I remember going through it a long time ago. It makes sense, however everything read, and seen, and heard needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Opinions are one of the things that makes America great.

What is (are) the benefit(s) of a homosexual relationship?

I'm not aware of any, would somone please tell me some?

Not to be retorical, but since some have explained the reasons for hetorosexual relationships, it would only be fair to allow the other side of the argument.

With the Bible aside, I honestly don't see any benefits of homosexual realtionships.