Begle1

Let me rephrase- I don't need any "unnessecary" saftey features. When you look at companies selling their propane kits, their always trumpeting about how safe their contraptions are. I'm not exatcly going to get into a collision and car fire, here, so I don't really care unless the contraption won't work long enough without the said safety contraption. Anyways, the only honorable death is one that leaves a big crater...

I've seen Ford's with "backyard fumigation systems", and I would like to know how they make them. So can you please answer the question of how you put together a propane system, for as cheap as possible, when you don't really care about an accident or the engine?

Wouldn't a venturi or something fumigate air at a set ratio to passing air? I have access to emissions monitoring equipment, a shed surrounded by a redneck with a shotgun and electric fences, and I don't think my measurements need to be precise enough to need a controlled environment. I just need to know how propane is injected into an engine and how I can rig up a system to do so.

oscaroc

12valve@heart

I think it's "something" in this case. Probably the motor, possibly himself.

oscaroc

Begle1! You crack me up! I hope you don't get hurt.

Begle1

I'm trying to be serious... Is that sad or what?
What comes in those professional propane kits, and how can I jury rig one of them?

tempforce

don't use a barbecue regulator.
use a welding pressure regulator. start with 1/2 lb of pressure of propane into a 1/4" nozzle, or mixing unit. you can continue increasing pressure until a slight pinging occurs under load. then reduce the pressure at least a lb. i would reduce it more to be safe. a micro switch on the throttle and a solenoid for the on/off of the propane flow, when not needing the gas. a on off switch on the dash would be handy, wired through the micro switch.
using propane will lean out the air fuel mixture.

"note this not a complete description on setting up a propane injection system, and should not be construed to be. no liability is assumed for anyone trying to use these suggestions. doing any home / backyard projects without the proper knowledge/safety/skills are not to be held against this contributer).

AlpineRAM

Begle1: What are you trying to find out by your experiments?
The real basic principle of propane injection in a diesel is to let the engine "sniff" propane. A simple nozzle in the air filter housing (pre-filter, so the filter acts as a mixer and holds back any droplets until they evaporate).Then add some flow regulator and adjust as you like. The downside of that "system" is that there is no provision to avoid blowing yourself up with the grid heaters on a cummins, no way to regulate the amount of propane according to load (except you want to have to turn the regulator in sync with the movements of the "go" pedal- which is perfectly acceptable on a dyno but not on the streets). The system does also completely circumvent the rev limiter built into diesels, so a mistake can blow up the engine.

Most of the features found in the commercial systems aren't necessary for you. If you just want to see what propane ingestion does to an engine use a camping stove and place it in front of the air intake. That way we used to start our old IDI Nat. asp. diesels in very cold weather- we used a gas blowtorch not lit to get a good shot of propane into the air filter and when it had evaporated we cranked. To keep the engine alive until warm enough some judicious shots of propane were needed, do one shot too big and you'll rev the engine up and it will come down and be dead.. (Sometimes a rod would stick somewhere it should not be, like a fender )

"note this not a complete description on setting up a propane injection system, and should not be construed to be. no liability is assumed for anyone trying to use these suggestions. doing any home / backyard projects without the proper knowledge/safety/skills are not to be held against this contributer).

"note: Stealing tempforce's disclaimer is my way to say that I like it. Copying is the ultimate endorsement."

AlpineRAM

Begle1

So all you need is a little nozzle stuck in the air box before the air filter, and a regulator before that. Nothing needs to be pressurized that way. What kind of nozzle could I use?

I wasn't even planning on running under load, but that'd probably be a good idea. I was basically just going to measure CO2, NOx and SOx emissions before and after certain levels of propane, to see if propane had any bearings on emissions. This is something that I don't know of being tested before, so I have the edge.
Then again, there is probably a reason it hasn't been tested before.

AlpineRAM

Well, I may be able to answer part of your questions:
CO2 will be a function of total fuel ingestion- at a diesel directly proportional to load, until a limit of the total O2 available is reached.
NOx will rise with propane, depending on the compression ratio. (The higher the more NOx)
SOx will be reduced if the propane is claen- simply because you use less diesel and therefore less S is put through the engine.
At idle you'll see weird results since the injection pump will see that you are at idle and if the rate goes up (propane gives energy) it will defuel. (try to get the revs down)- depending on the compression ratio, eventual carbon buildup, engine temp etc the engine can run on propane alone too at this low rpm- but most of the engines will run rough and fall below the threshhold where the governor starts injecting fuel again.

HTH

AlpineRAM

Hoss

We KNOW you're trying to be serious. That's why we're NOT helping you. We don't want you to kill yourself.

I can hear it now as you pass your sign off to your buddy so you can start your "fumigating"...."Hold my sign. I don't wanna lose it.".

Dr. Evil

I smell a Darwin Award.....

oscaroc

Are you still alive Begle1? I haven't heard on the News about any propane explosions in Southern California!

Begle1

Won't propane cause a cleaner burn, though, and therefor lower CO2 and particulate levels?

So, I have a tank, regulator, nozzle, and generous amounts of duct tape.

What else goes into the professional systems that makes them so expensive?

westcoaster

You know, cummins does make a b series engine that has a turbo and spark plugs that runs on propane, While propane is a cleaner burning fuel, it just doesn't have the btu content of diesel.....

Hoss

I can assure you it isn't duct tape.