Mexstan

Starting with your first comment. Sorry, I don't agree that the Mexican leaders have used the money coming from the states to prop up the Mexican economy instead of fixing the problems in Mexico. There ARE major problems in Mexico, no argument there, but in other ways the US has problems just as big and bigger. The problems are just different. Many of the long term problems here are being fixed, slowly but surely. What you are looking at are SYMPTOMS of much deeper problems of a kind that I am not prepared to go into on this thread. Maybe the root causes are not known or understood by the people who are in charge. I certainly don't understand most of it.

Me, a sage???? NO WAY!!!!!!!!! Please do NOT think of me that way! I'm just an old fool who bumbles his way around on this site, stirring the pot occasionally to see what floats to the surface.

Again, I am not going to deny the shortcomings of my adopted country. I wish I had all the answers for you. My ability to help is VERY limited, but if I can where I see problems, try to show them to you. Hopefully you will see what I see and do something about it before it is too late. I do not talk very much about the ongoing problems in Mexico very much on this site. Why? Because the problems you have could result in bad things happening to your neighbors on both sides of your borders. In my small way I am hoping to get y'all to see the light before you get it turned off here. Does this make sense?

gobucks

I think we already discussed the evils of unions on a couple of other threads. I also didn't say everybody is replaceable. The point I was making was in direct response to anyfx; comparing laborers to brain surgeons is like comparing apples to oranges. They both have worth, but one carries greater worth and that is directly attributable to the fact that one is in higher demand. Why is a doctor in higher demand? Because there are less of them. Case in point, right out of high school, I worked my way through college as a laborer for a local construction company. Conversely, you don't see a lot of high school grads working their way through college as a brain surgeon. Sorry, these are the facts of life. I don't make them up.

I agree companies are only as good as their workers. And, at least around here (this is going to draw a ton of fire), I believe non-union companies on average have happier workforces. Often times, union are very successful in driving a wedge between the company and the workforce; making it an "us against them" situation. It's no secret unions are finding it more and more difficult to unionize new companies. I don't necessarily mean new, as in the formation of the company, I mean new as in previously un-unionized. There is a reason for this.

By the way, George W. Bush does not have a presidential library yet. I would assume you are talking about donations George H.W. Bush received from individuals, one of whom may have been from the UAE. Through a very simple Google search you will find out that Bill Clinton's library received more money from the Middle East for his library than any President in our Nation's history; including from the governments of DUBAI, Kuwait and Qatar. One prominent Bush Basher and Clinton supported responded when asked about the donations to Clinton, "It would be surprising if they didn't give. The Saudis have given to every presidential library for the last 30 years, Republican and Democrat." This guy also wrote the book, "House of Bush, House of Saud."

I guess in response to your question why nobody has been questioning Bush's close relationship with UAE...would be because you would have to actually question our Country's close relationship with UAE. Anybody that has been paying attention before the last week would know that they have been an ally for a long time. There have been a few instances that folks have pointed to where this country has supported terrorism, but it is hardly state sponsored...this country has breeded it fair share of terrorists; there were just three guys in Toledo arrested for funneling money to terrorist organizations through US Banks. Does the US sponsor terrorism?

gobucks

When you discount the millions of dollars going to US companies and former presidents from Arab nations, but then use the same sort of ties to reason some sort of inaccurate correlation...that sounds like a conspiracy theorist to me!

bama

if you were to keep up with this for more than the past week,,you would also know that this is the same thing conservatives stirred up on the clintons just a few years ago.same argument then,same now...i guess you can only argue it one way though.that was my point,nobody has brought it up now,although everybody did when used against the clintons when their library was first opened..........and if i went astray on your comment about workers,sorry about that,nobody is comparing laborer pay to doctors pay,that would be ridiculous....i was talking strictly blue collar pay scales..........i really liked your last sentence though go bucks on the 3 guys from toledo,,,,i think everyone should read that,and really think about it.......you say you cant blame the entire US for what some people in it do.............bama

herb

Originally Posted by gobucks
Speaking of a countries too dependent on other countries...I read somewhere once that Mexican illegals in the US sent home over $16 billion in 2004, which is somewhere between 15-20% of Mexico's GDP. So, to put that in a US perspective, if we had Americans working illegally in a foreign country sending home that percentage it would be about $200 billion. This just illustrates how Mexican leaders have long used the US as a means to prop up their government avoiding real economic or governmental reforms, which their country sorely needs.

Mexstan, it always amazes me how you can point out the shortcomings of the US and always seem to have the answers. Many people on here looked to you as some sort of sage. But, yet, you live in a country whose list of shortcomings dwarfs the US'. Not just in areas as complex as the global economy or foreign relations, but the UN has pointed to severe problems in areas as basic as human rights, such as torture, extrajudicial killings, "disappearances," arbitrary arrest, labor-rights violations. The US State Department made sad commentary relating to the Mexican court system as a whole, stating "corruption, inefficiency and disregard of the law are major problems. The wealthy and the powerful generally benefit from impunity."

Herb and the other bashers & conspiracy theorists will get on here and make their claims about these problems running rampant in the US too, but it is simply not fact. We may not have a perfect system here, but it’s one of the best around and keeps our politicians “relatively” honest. Believe me, we have had our fair share of “bad apples” here in Ohio and nationally in recent years and they are currently “paying the piper.” In other countries, this is the way government business is conducted so it goes on without any repercussions.

Not sure how you get the idea i am a basher or conspiracy theorist. I did my 6 years in the military and love and appreaciate this country as much as anyone who is a true citizen of this country.
Just because some of us are able to seperate the wheat from the chaf with this King George Regiem does not make us unpatriotic. In fact i would argue that anyone who is blindly following this regiem is unpatriotic for not being able or willing open their eyes and see some of the damage being done to our country

MCMLV

I think I a changing my mind on the issue. Here is why:

Well, if our American ports are not being run by us Americans, BTW we still own them, a British company having run them in the past, and "everything stays the same, meaning employees and such" then I say let them run it.

Now could someone please tell me if everything will stay the same why is it that we do not run the ports? (Looking for calculator as things do not add up)

Can anyone add this up?

Haulin_in_Dixie

Ahhhhh perspective, perspective.... Here is some of mine. Ok capitalism is the way business is run in this country. You have a warehouse and a company comes is calling itself a management company. For part of the profits it will manage the shipments in and out, it signs a contract with the owners and goes to work. The owners no longer have to fool with the mundune stuff. Along comes another company that wants the business and buys the contract out for a good fee. The original company takes the money and goes its own way. Then a forign company buys it, now we have the UAE purchasing it. Mainly because no American business wanted to spend almost 7 billion to get it and none have the money.

This then is a business deal, has nothing to do with the President, except that the government has to sign off that it is ok. So how is that all the presidents fault? All he said is that he will not refuse to allow it. Actually did not even know about it till recently. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO APPROVE IT, he only has to not disapprove it. Other government agencies do the approving. In this case the Congress has been making noise about refusing to allow this UAE to take over so Bush said he would veto any bill stopping the sale of the management.

My perspective, I would rather have a friendly Arab country run it than the Communist Chinese, but that has been discussed in the news and it is ok for China to run ports, I disagree. Actually I disagree with forign countries running US assets but that has become the way things are being done. I listened to a talk by an official from one of the ports and he said that rarely do you ever see a Briton at a facility, that is only the way up officers. So what changes? I just don't think that this is so big a deal. One thought, wonder if UAE would allow terrorists to bomb their cash cow. UAE would lose as much as the US. Actually the only way you can justify the current noise is if you believe that Bush is in conspiracy with the Arabs to take out Americas ports. With out that, the American justice system would imprison the offenders if out of line.

Unions, everyone has an opinion just like, to be nice, rear ends. I have worked at non union shops that give you a real great deal to keep the unions out. In the past, unions were necessary to shut out sweat shops. But they got to corrupt, to strong, putting a strangle hold on business driving our proces out of competition. Mafia involvment, big money, outsourcing. So my belief, we need some union to keep business on their toes, no union and we go the wrong way, but too much union and we have bigger problems. Anyone ever read the history of the unions for instance in coal country? Not pretty. When I was owneroperator for trucking companies, the union drivers made double what I did, but I made a good living. Those companies have mostly gone out of business. Our steel production was pretty much put out of business to the Japanese due to the high labor costs of the union shops. What happened to our steel industry? What happened to the Pittsburg area? Birmingham? Monengehelia? These areas are where I made most of my living, shipping steel. Now they are empty shells of buildings with dirt poor people living where they drove Cadallics.

In Brooklyn New York, at Ryan Cement, use to deliver beach sand for the concrete. At that time a good wage was $5.00 an hour. They had a worker sweeping the side walk when the trucks would pull out. He made $14.00 an hour, stood there all day, as a truck would pull out, he swept across the sidewalk. Who pays for that garbage, you do when you get a foundation poured. Working in a machine shop as a young man, got hollered at constantly because I was working too fast, made it look bad for the other union workers. I was taking jobs away from family men was the complaint.

Mexstan

Good post HID.

MCMLV

You are right Bill, my beef is why aren't we running the ports?
I mean, we are too expensive for production labor, hence the imports and so on, but now we are above management too? If the Brits and the UAE can turn a profit on managing the ports with everything staying as is why cann't we?

It seems that we lost all national pride for the sake of convenience and bigger profits. Where is the line? Sure things change and as we advance somethings are just not worth doing, that is a fact of life, but by the same token some things do stay the same. And then some things are just too important to give up even at the cost of forsaking big profits, things like ports...

bama

"i have worked at nonunion shops that give you a real great deal to keep the unions out"........my point exactly..the union has worked for you,without you even being in the union...........the arabs,whether right or wrongly stereotyped,have in fact been stereotyped by this country.the vast majority of americans,i believe,do not want arabs controlling anything as important as alot of ports here.whether this is right or wrong,you decide....its being thought of as,,if after ww2 the japanese wouldve wanted to buy rights to control ports in the US...i know its not the same thing,but this is how many americans are viewing this................bama

gobucks

"Bush" Bashers, Herb, "Bush" Bashers. YOU ARE A BUSH BASHER, right? I am not calling anyone's patriotism into question, nor would I, ever. I appreciate your service to this country. We obviously have differing points of view. It doesn't make me right or you wrong, or vice versa.

I am not a blind follower, just a realist. If Bill Clinton were President right now and were doing this with the ports or reacted the same way to 9-11, I would support him just the same; just as Hillary supported Bush when this war started. I would agree that not everything has been handled properly, but it's easy for us armchair quarterbacks to sit back and say how we would have done it differently. Just as if George Bush disgraced the oval office with a bimbo, I would call him out.

gobucks

I agree, excellent post. I also agree, and have said it for years, organized labor is very important to keeping employers honest. But, overzealous unions can do just as much, or more harm, than overzealous employers.

herb

Complete honesty. If i could find ANYTHING i could consider positive that had been acomplished by this administration i would gladly give him credit for it.

MCMLV

Come now Herb, to paraphrase the man himself: 'Look what I have done for the publishing business alone'

herb

I can't remember the percentage but just yesterday on the news they were dicussing the publishing companys in this country and it was said that a high percentage of the publishing companys in the states have moved and are owned by foreign countries