any horse experts on here
07-08-2007, 01:02 PM
#16
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I grew up around horses.
Find a good farrier for your horse.
Make a bad mistake working on a horse's hoof and things can get infected and the horse can become lame pretty quick. An injury to a hoof can lead to numerous other physical breakdowns.
Good luck,
DT.
Find a good farrier for your horse.
Make a bad mistake working on a horse's hoof and things can get infected and the horse can become lame pretty quick. An injury to a hoof can lead to numerous other physical breakdowns.
Good luck,
DT.
My wife had her niece's boyfriend come out and shoe our daughters horse,
he supposed to have grown up around horses and knew what he was doing. This horse is very gentle except for one thing , He does not like people jacking with his legs and hooves. so after 4 hours of cussing, drawn blood and going to get the neighbor to give the horse a shot to calm him down, he only managed to trim and shoe the front, even after the shot the horse would not let Him mess with his hind legs. after giving up He tells my daughter that they only shoe the front on their roping horse and he is fine to ride anywhere like he is, Is that right?
he supposed to have grown up around horses and knew what he was doing. This horse is very gentle except for one thing , He does not like people jacking with his legs and hooves. so after 4 hours of cussing, drawn blood and going to get the neighbor to give the horse a shot to calm him down, he only managed to trim and shoe the front, even after the shot the horse would not let Him mess with his hind legs. after giving up He tells my daughter that they only shoe the front on their roping horse and he is fine to ride anywhere like he is, Is that right?
07-08-2007, 01:39 PM
#17
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On another note tho, it is YOUR responsibility to have a horse that will let his feet be picked up and worked on. This isnt hard to teach, it just takes time and consistency.
You are paying your farrier to trim, not to train, so dont expect your horse to learn it from them.
You are paying your farrier to trim, not to train, so dont expect your horse to learn it from them.
I do trim and shoe my own horses and a hadfull of friends horses. To be able to do this properly, I have spent (and still spend) countless hours with 3 local farriers running around and helping them in order to learn. There have been many occasions when we arrive to trim a horse that gets very unruly, we simply say "I'm sorry, but we are going to leave and don't call back till that horse is trained." Most full time farriers will not deal with an ignorant horse without proper precautions and time allowed. It is not worth the risk of getting injured for a full time farrier to be out of work.
If your farrier could not handle the horse properly, You're right, he should have walked. He was correct in stating that the horse could probably get along fine with only front shoes. (Depending on where you are going to ride) I often times only put front shoes on my horses and I let them go barefoot very often. I think it is better for the horse to go barefoot when they can.
07-08-2007, 02:32 PM
#18
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Sorry, I was referring to horseman as being more than just a rider, but as someone who can keep a horse doing what you or he wants, not just someone who starts pulling out bigger and badder twitches when the horse starts acting up that he doesn't already know (If he knows from previous dealings that the horse needs the extra equipment to get the job done go ahead. But I'm also of the belief that do what it takes the first time and do less the next time to get what you want to come easy.) , or the other end of the spectrum, like this guy, who was a glutton for punishment and didn't try to do what was necessary as quick as what was needed. (That's what I've got off this conversation anyway)
07-08-2007, 03:55 PM
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Well, I guess it's time for me to pop back into this conversation again. I should have also given my perspective on both sides.
I am also a horse owner, trainer, etc - that's what led me to learning shoeing, one more thing to add to my horse skills. As an owner and trainer, I saw it my job to train my horses for foot handling and from the day they were born their feet were picked up, cleaned out, handled a lot. Trimming and shoeing is hard work, fighting a horse makes it harder. It is a dangerous occupation and a good shoer IS a blessing and hard to find. I also went out of my way to create a very safe working area for shoeing and trimming. My horses were/are trimmed/shod on a 6-8 week schedule depending on thier individual needs. I never put a farrier under a horse I would not work on myself, and if I had one that was skiddish about their feet, they got twice as much foot training time. When my once-in-a-lifetime, excellent farrier retired, I could not find another even half as good, half as reliable, so that was my impetus to learn and do it myself.
Not to dislocate my shoulder patting my back, but I am an outstanding farrier. My work is meticulous, I take my time and have pride about the job at hand. I shod many horses in my own barn and others outside my barn for many years. I have worked on some of the most unruly horses to the most gentle horses, I never quit on a horse that was spoiled rotten, just stayed with the process until done. Most of the time I refused to shoe the unruly ones, just would trim them until they learned to stand for foot work. There is nothing like 80 or 90 stitches in your leg to teach you NOT to drive nails and shoe an unruly one. There is also nothing like loosing weeks of income for the same reason having been laid up by that unruly horse. Everyone depends on you inbetween that time, and a lot of good horses are left go till you recover from the one that hurt you.
It IS the owners responsibility to present you with a safe horse and yours to do the best job and be a good shoer. The worst horse on the ground is the safest kids horse in the saddle. The safest on the ground is the worst in the saddle. Most horses are somewhere in between and you do the dance and get the job done. I used to do trimming for the wild horse program, while those horses never had their feet trimmed in their lives, after a short session with them EVEN THEY tolerated their feet being trimmed with too much problem. Any horse that cannot learn the process has only one destiny, they will hurt their farrier or farriers, they will hurt your family or you, and they are the ones that have ALPO written all over them.
CD
I am also a horse owner, trainer, etc - that's what led me to learning shoeing, one more thing to add to my horse skills. As an owner and trainer, I saw it my job to train my horses for foot handling and from the day they were born their feet were picked up, cleaned out, handled a lot. Trimming and shoeing is hard work, fighting a horse makes it harder. It is a dangerous occupation and a good shoer IS a blessing and hard to find. I also went out of my way to create a very safe working area for shoeing and trimming. My horses were/are trimmed/shod on a 6-8 week schedule depending on thier individual needs. I never put a farrier under a horse I would not work on myself, and if I had one that was skiddish about their feet, they got twice as much foot training time. When my once-in-a-lifetime, excellent farrier retired, I could not find another even half as good, half as reliable, so that was my impetus to learn and do it myself.
Not to dislocate my shoulder patting my back, but I am an outstanding farrier. My work is meticulous, I take my time and have pride about the job at hand. I shod many horses in my own barn and others outside my barn for many years. I have worked on some of the most unruly horses to the most gentle horses, I never quit on a horse that was spoiled rotten, just stayed with the process until done. Most of the time I refused to shoe the unruly ones, just would trim them until they learned to stand for foot work. There is nothing like 80 or 90 stitches in your leg to teach you NOT to drive nails and shoe an unruly one. There is also nothing like loosing weeks of income for the same reason having been laid up by that unruly horse. Everyone depends on you inbetween that time, and a lot of good horses are left go till you recover from the one that hurt you.
It IS the owners responsibility to present you with a safe horse and yours to do the best job and be a good shoer. The worst horse on the ground is the safest kids horse in the saddle. The safest on the ground is the worst in the saddle. Most horses are somewhere in between and you do the dance and get the job done. I used to do trimming for the wild horse program, while those horses never had their feet trimmed in their lives, after a short session with them EVEN THEY tolerated their feet being trimmed with too much problem. Any horse that cannot learn the process has only one destiny, they will hurt their farrier or farriers, they will hurt your family or you, and they are the ones that have ALPO written all over them.
CD
07-08-2007, 04:38 PM
#20
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Get a mule. I don't shoe my saddle mules and they do fine, even running in rocky terrain. Still have to trim them though. I can do it, but not without bachache and not as quick and good as my farrier. So I think it is worth it to pay to have it done by someone who does it every day and knows exactly what he is doing. Good luck, just kidding about getting a mule, I like horses too.
07-09-2007, 05:21 AM
#21
DTR's Night Watchman & Poet Laureate
Well, I guess it's time for me to pop back into this conversation again. I should have also given my perspective on both sides.
I am also a horse owner, trainer, etc - that's what led me to learning shoeing, one more thing to add to my horse skills. As an owner and trainer, I saw it my job to train my horses for foot handling and from the day they were born their feet were picked up, cleaned out, handled a lot. Trimming and shoeing is hard work, fighting a horse makes it harder. It is a dangerous occupation and a good shoer IS a blessing and hard to find. I also went out of my way to create a very safe working area for shoeing and trimming. My horses were/are trimmed/shod on a 6-8 week schedule depending on thier individual needs. I never put a farrier under a horse I would not work on myself, and if I had one that was skiddish about their feet, they got twice as much foot training time. When my once-in-a-lifetime, excellent farrier retired, I could not find another even half as good, half as reliable, so that was my impetus to learn and do it myself.
Not to dislocate my shoulder patting my back, but I am an outstanding farrier. My work is meticulous, I take my time and have pride about the job at hand. I shod many horses in my own barn and others outside my barn for many years. I have worked on some of the most unruly horses to the most gentle horses, I never quit on a horse that was spoiled rotten, just stayed with the process until done. Most of the time I refused to shoe the unruly ones, just would trim them until they learned to stand for foot work. There is nothing like 80 or 90 stitches in your leg to teach you NOT to drive nails and shoe an unruly one. There is also nothing like loosing weeks of income for the same reason having been laid up by that unruly horse. Everyone depends on you inbetween that time, and a lot of good horses are left go till you recover from the one that hurt you.
It IS the owners responsibility to present you with a safe horse and yours to do the best job and be a good shoer. The worst horse on the ground is the safest kids horse in the saddle. The safest on the ground is the worst in the saddle. Most horses are somewhere in between and you do the dance and get the job done. I used to do trimming for the wild horse program, while those horses never had their feet trimmed in their lives, after a short session with them EVEN THEY tolerated their feet being trimmed with too much problem. Any horse that cannot learn the process has only one destiny, they will hurt their farrier or farriers, they will hurt your family or you, and they are the ones that have ALPO written all over them.
CD
I am also a horse owner, trainer, etc - that's what led me to learning shoeing, one more thing to add to my horse skills. As an owner and trainer, I saw it my job to train my horses for foot handling and from the day they were born their feet were picked up, cleaned out, handled a lot. Trimming and shoeing is hard work, fighting a horse makes it harder. It is a dangerous occupation and a good shoer IS a blessing and hard to find. I also went out of my way to create a very safe working area for shoeing and trimming. My horses were/are trimmed/shod on a 6-8 week schedule depending on thier individual needs. I never put a farrier under a horse I would not work on myself, and if I had one that was skiddish about their feet, they got twice as much foot training time. When my once-in-a-lifetime, excellent farrier retired, I could not find another even half as good, half as reliable, so that was my impetus to learn and do it myself.
Not to dislocate my shoulder patting my back, but I am an outstanding farrier. My work is meticulous, I take my time and have pride about the job at hand. I shod many horses in my own barn and others outside my barn for many years. I have worked on some of the most unruly horses to the most gentle horses, I never quit on a horse that was spoiled rotten, just stayed with the process until done. Most of the time I refused to shoe the unruly ones, just would trim them until they learned to stand for foot work. There is nothing like 80 or 90 stitches in your leg to teach you NOT to drive nails and shoe an unruly one. There is also nothing like loosing weeks of income for the same reason having been laid up by that unruly horse. Everyone depends on you inbetween that time, and a lot of good horses are left go till you recover from the one that hurt you.
It IS the owners responsibility to present you with a safe horse and yours to do the best job and be a good shoer. The worst horse on the ground is the safest kids horse in the saddle. The safest on the ground is the worst in the saddle. Most horses are somewhere in between and you do the dance and get the job done. I used to do trimming for the wild horse program, while those horses never had their feet trimmed in their lives, after a short session with them EVEN THEY tolerated their feet being trimmed with too much problem. Any horse that cannot learn the process has only one destiny, they will hurt their farrier or farriers, they will hurt your family or you, and they are the ones that have ALPO written all over them.
CD
Well Said CD!
Mr. Wilson.... as a starter, i tell most new horse owners to pick up a copy of Dr. Robert Millers "Imprint training of the New Born Foal", published by Western Horseman and available at most Tractor Supply Stores, online or most tack shops.
The info in that book on how horses think, react and the PRINCIPLES of training are great... he does one of the best jobs of explaining this info in simle terms I have ever read.
There is a book by a gal named Cherry Hill, who while I dont agree with her "attitudes" about horses, does have some good info on safe handleing and basics of training and care.. but Ill be hung if I can remember the title...
When you find a good Farrier, he will hopefully be willing to demonstrate how to safely pick up a foot, and may be able to direct you to a traineir in you r area how can teach you to teach the horse..
07-09-2007, 07:59 AM
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That horse needs a trainer first and then a farrier. handling of the feet is no different than horses that won't trailer load. A good trainer and I don't mean a cowboy style trainer that thinks a twitch is training but a good trainer who knows how to work with the horse's feet and legs and get him desensitized to his legs being handled is essential to creating a good horse. If he doesn't trust you picking up his feet who do you think he will trust out on a trail when a spooky situitation occurs.
07-09-2007, 09:04 AM
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This is from Clinton Anderson. it's alot like what the wife and I use on customers horses.
For some horse owners, having your horse's feet handled regularly and trimmed by your farrier can be an easy, enjoyable process. For other horse owners, it can be downright frustrating for the owner, the horse and the farrier. If you have trouble handling your horse's feet - whether he pulls away from you, kicks at you, or is just uncooperative- the steps I am going to show you will be useful in overcoming these problems, teaching your horse to stand still and learn to relax when having his legs and feet handled. The biggest mistake people make when trying to handle their horses' legs, whether a young horse being taught to pick up its legs or an older horse with problems, is that they don't break the process into steps the horse can understand. They try to fight to keep a leg off the ground while restricting the horse. Remember, horses naturally want to lean and fight against pressure until they are taught not to do so. Owners must understand that a horse is a prey animal, and people are predators. Horses feel that any time they are trapped or restricted, they must flee. If they cannot flee, the next thing is to fight and defend themselves. This is where all the frustration begins because the owner picks up the horse's foot, and the horse wants to move away from them. The owner then tries to restrict the horse and stop them by tying the horse up and fighting with the leg; and the horse wants to keep kicking. What you have to do is break this sequence of events into small steps that take into consideration the horse's natural instincts, and complete each one before you move to the next. Whether you are teaching a horse something new or fixing an existing problem, the same principles apply. Break it into small steps at first. Once you have completed all of the little steps, you can put them together and have one big success.
The first step is to desensitize the horse's legs to something touching them - both our hands and a lead rope. I find that if a horse is nervous or frightened about having his legs handled, it's because he doesn't want his legs touched at all. If you can't even run your hands or a rope around your horse's legs and have him stand relaxed, what makes you think you are ever going to be able to pick his foot up and start hammering a shoe on? I use a 14-foot lead rope to run around my horse's legs. Stand a couple of feet from the front of the horse at a 45 degree angle, and gently and softly see-saw the rope back and forth up and down the front leg. All I am doing is showing the horse that something can move around his legs without restricting or hurting him. At this stage if your horse starts to move around, try to stand still and keep your horse's nose tipped toward you, allowing him to drift in a circle around you. While he is moving, keep pulling back and forth, see-sawing on the rope lightly and letting him know that he can walk around, but you are not going to stop moving the rope. As long as you keep the horse looking at you, he can't go anywhere - even if he backs up or moves sideways, just stay with him. Whenever a horse is looking at you with his nose tipped towards you, you can always walk or run faster than he can. As soon as your horse stands still and relaxes, you can stop moving the rope, rub him between the eyes and start again. Repeat this until you can rub the rope all over his legs and he stands relaxed without moving. Start by using a rope so you don't have to lean forward and put yourself in a more vulnerable, possibly dangerous position if the horse tries to kick or strike. Do not go to the next step until your horse can handle this one.
The next step is to be able to rub your hands up and down your horse's leg and have him stand quietly. Start at the top of the horse's leg around his elbow, and gradually work your way down. If you start to work your way down and he starts to move, return to a spot where he is comfortable and continue from there. Basically, you will approach and retreat. You start at the top, rub your hand down the horse's leg and, once the horse starts to become a little nervous, go back to the top and start all over again. Pretty soon, your horse will understand that just because you are rubbing his leg, he doesn't have to panic or run away. Prove to him first that you are not going to hurt him.
Now, these first two steps might go quickly with some horses; and with others, especially young horses, it might take one or two sessions. Don't be in a hurry. Take your time, because in the long run, your patience will save time.
I like to teach my horse a cue to pick up his leg. What I do to ask my horse to pick up his leg is find the chestnut - the small, hard skin just above the knee on both the front and back legs - and put my thumb and forefinger on it and squeeze lightly. The makes the horse feel a little uncomfortable causing him to take the weight off that leg and pick it up for perhaps a split second. As soon as he does this, take the pressure off the chestnut immediately; and start to rub his leg once again. All you want the horse to do is lift his foot up off the ground for a second, then go back to rubbing his leg. You are not trying to pick the leg up. All you are trying to do is teach him a cue that when you press him, he should pick the leg up. If at any time he becomes nervous or starts to react badly, go back to the previous step(s) and do more desensitizing to your horse's legs.
Once you have your horse understanding the cue to pick his foot up, you can slide your hand down towards the fetlock and hold the foot off the ground for a second or two. As soon as he lets you hold his foot, drop it again, rub him, and repeat the squeeze. What you want to do is ask him to keep the foot off the ground a little bit longer each time. You might start with one second for the first five or six repetitions. Gradually work your way up - three seconds, four seconds and so on. What you are doing is giving the horse a chance to understand that just because he picks his foot up off the ground, it does not mean you are going to try to hold it there for a long time. Remember, especially with young horses, they have to learn to balance themselves on three legs. They can't go straight from standing on four legs to, all of a sudden, standing on three legs perfectly for ten minutes. Give them a chance to understand what you want them to do.
Now you are at the stage where your horse will lift his leg on cue, and hold it there for 10-15 seconds with your hand underneath his pastern or fetlock. With your other hand, gently rub up and down his leg and desensitize him while his leg is lifted off the ground. If at any stage your horse wants to try to move his leg around, try not to restrict him. Move back and forth with him. If you're holding his front leg and he wants to move it back and forth, gently hold it to keep it off the ground, but go back and forth with him. Do not try to keep his foot still. This will cause him to fight more and panic. As soon as he stops moving his leg, drop the foot and start all over again. Show him that as soon as he stops moving his leg, you will release his foot and put it on the ground. Now, if you horse ends up pulling his leg away from you and you are not able to keep it off the ground, this is not a problem. Just begin again going over all of the steps. Don't get in a fight with him. Treat the whole procedure as a casual game.
Now you should have your horse's foot to the stage where you can hold it off the ground, rub it with both hands while you keep it off the ground, and he is not interested in moving it around. Now start to desensitize your horse to the tapping sensation that he will feel when being shod. I usually start with my hand and tap it on the bottom of the horse's hoof until he relaxes. If, when you start tapping, the horse starts to resist, try to gently keep tapping and let the horse's leg move back and forth. As soon as the horse starts to relax and stops moving around, keep tapping for a few seconds, then release the leg to the ground. Show the horse that the quickest way to get rid of the tapping is to ignore it. Once you can do this successfully, get a shoeing hammer, a stick, a rock or anything that has some weight to it, and gently tap that on the horse's hoof. As your horse becomes calmer, start tapping harder. You are simulating and desensitizing your horse to the tapping sensation he will experience when the farrier comes. I find that most horses that don't like being shod are resistant to the hammering of the nails and the feeling of their foot being tapped and vibrated. Show your horse this is something he doesn't need to get worried about. This is an extremely good lesson for weanlings and yearlings, and if you do this leading up to the first time they are shod, their first experience is usually easy for both the horse and the farrier. Your farrier will appreciate your preparation.
Once you get to this step on both front legs, do it often. Remember, the answer is approach and retreat. If you think your horse is going to pull his foot away in five seconds, put the foot down in four seconds. Work on both front legs and get them really good before you move to the back legs. The front legs will generally be easier than the back legs.
The next step is working on the back legs. When you start this, you should follow the same steps, beginning with the rope. If he starts to really kick and thrash at any point, to where you feel unsafe, just drop the rope and start again. All you have to do is keep the horse's nose tipped towards you and that will cause the hindquarters to move away from you. As long as you are standing up towards the horse's shoulder, he won't be able to kick you.
From here, follow exactly the same steps as above.
A success tip on the back leg is that once you get to the point where you are asking your horse to keep his foot off the ground and you start to rub the horse's leg with your hand - hold the horse's leg with your hand under the horse's hoof towards the horse's toe and curl the toe backwards. If you hold it like this, you will be less likely to cause claustrophobia in the horse. Try not to grip tightly on the pastern with your hand.
COMMON MISTAKES
Don't do this when your horse is fresh. If you have not worked your horse for a few days and he has been locked in a stall, he won't have his attention on you. Try this exercise at the end of a groundwork session or riding session when you feel you have your horse worked out emotionally, physically and mentally enough to stand still and pay attention to you. These steps will work a lot better if you already have respect from your horse, as I have taught you in all the previous articles.
Trying to pick up and hold the foot up too soon. Remember, most people are trying to pick up the horse's foot and restrict it. This is the opposite of what a prey animal can tolerate unless he understands you will not hurt him. You need to tell your horse almost the opposite - that you don't want to pick the foot up. The more you rub him and desensitize the leg, pick it up in small stages and slowly start to hold it longer and longer, the less the horse will mind you holding his foot off the ground.
Not desensitizing the horse enough to your touch. Remember, if you cannot rub your horse's leg up and down with both hands, the rope, and have him completely bored and not interested in moving away or getting frightened, don't even try to pick the foot up.
Your horse tries to pull his leg away or tries to fight you. Don't try to stop the leg from moving. Move with the leg. If the leg starts to move so much that you can't hold on to it, just drop it and start the steps again. If you have the rope around your horse's leg and he starts to move or kick towards the rope, move the rope further up the horse's leg and tip the horse's nose towards you. Remember, when you see-saw the rope, don't do it so hard that it might cause the horse a rope burn. Once he understands the rope won't hurt him, he will stop kicking. Try not to reprimand him, as it will only make him feel more defensive at this point.
Don't do this in a restricted area like a stall or tie the horse. Give your horse plenty of room to move around. Ideally, do this in a 50-foot round pen or an arena. Remember, when the horse wants to move, let him; and as long as your keep his head tipped toward you, he can't run away. Even if he drifts sideways or backwards, go with him.
TROUBLESHOOTING
Your horse walks around and doesn't stand still when the rope is around his legs or when you are rubbing him - he begins to panic. Be patient and persistent - stay in position and keep rubbing his legs until he starts to relax. Remember, start at the top of the leg and work your way down. If you are rubbing on your horse's leg and you get down towards his knee or hock and he starts to get nervous, just move back towards the top of the horse's leg again. Start where he is comfortable and work down from there. As soon as he relaxes, take your hands away or stop moving the rope, pat your horse and repeat it again.
When you start to pat the horse's hoof with your hand or with a shoeing hammer, your horse starts to move his leg back and forth and wants to pull away. Try to keep tapping the horse with a little lighter tap. Start out gently and slowly increase the tapping sensation as the horse starts to relax. Remember, if you get three taps and the horse stands still, put the foot down and start again. Next time try to get four taps before you put the foot down. If the horse is pulling away, you should not be holding on to his leg and trying to stop him from moving. Let your arm go back and forth with the horse's leg and, if you can, keep up the tapping as he keeps moving it. This will show him that, just because he is moving his leg, the tapping sensation is not going to go away. Do not try to tap the horse's hoof with your hand or your hammer until you can completely pick up all four feet well and handle them well with him completely relaxed. If you can't do that, don't expect him to stand there while you tap his hoof.
Your horse tries to kick or strike at the rope when it's around his leg. Just try to loosen up the rope and not pull it quite as hard. You might try lifting your arms up and pulling the rope higher up his leg. The higher up his leg it is, the less defensive he will probably be. Once the horse realizes that you aren't going to hurt him with the rope, he will lose his defensiveness and stop trying to kick at you. The worst thing you can do is to pull on the roper harder and reprimand the horse, or stop him from kicking. Just go with it. Act like he's not doing it, and soon he won't be doing it.
For some horse owners, having your horse's feet handled regularly and trimmed by your farrier can be an easy, enjoyable process. For other horse owners, it can be downright frustrating for the owner, the horse and the farrier. If you have trouble handling your horse's feet - whether he pulls away from you, kicks at you, or is just uncooperative- the steps I am going to show you will be useful in overcoming these problems, teaching your horse to stand still and learn to relax when having his legs and feet handled. The biggest mistake people make when trying to handle their horses' legs, whether a young horse being taught to pick up its legs or an older horse with problems, is that they don't break the process into steps the horse can understand. They try to fight to keep a leg off the ground while restricting the horse. Remember, horses naturally want to lean and fight against pressure until they are taught not to do so. Owners must understand that a horse is a prey animal, and people are predators. Horses feel that any time they are trapped or restricted, they must flee. If they cannot flee, the next thing is to fight and defend themselves. This is where all the frustration begins because the owner picks up the horse's foot, and the horse wants to move away from them. The owner then tries to restrict the horse and stop them by tying the horse up and fighting with the leg; and the horse wants to keep kicking. What you have to do is break this sequence of events into small steps that take into consideration the horse's natural instincts, and complete each one before you move to the next. Whether you are teaching a horse something new or fixing an existing problem, the same principles apply. Break it into small steps at first. Once you have completed all of the little steps, you can put them together and have one big success.
The first step is to desensitize the horse's legs to something touching them - both our hands and a lead rope. I find that if a horse is nervous or frightened about having his legs handled, it's because he doesn't want his legs touched at all. If you can't even run your hands or a rope around your horse's legs and have him stand relaxed, what makes you think you are ever going to be able to pick his foot up and start hammering a shoe on? I use a 14-foot lead rope to run around my horse's legs. Stand a couple of feet from the front of the horse at a 45 degree angle, and gently and softly see-saw the rope back and forth up and down the front leg. All I am doing is showing the horse that something can move around his legs without restricting or hurting him. At this stage if your horse starts to move around, try to stand still and keep your horse's nose tipped toward you, allowing him to drift in a circle around you. While he is moving, keep pulling back and forth, see-sawing on the rope lightly and letting him know that he can walk around, but you are not going to stop moving the rope. As long as you keep the horse looking at you, he can't go anywhere - even if he backs up or moves sideways, just stay with him. Whenever a horse is looking at you with his nose tipped towards you, you can always walk or run faster than he can. As soon as your horse stands still and relaxes, you can stop moving the rope, rub him between the eyes and start again. Repeat this until you can rub the rope all over his legs and he stands relaxed without moving. Start by using a rope so you don't have to lean forward and put yourself in a more vulnerable, possibly dangerous position if the horse tries to kick or strike. Do not go to the next step until your horse can handle this one.
The next step is to be able to rub your hands up and down your horse's leg and have him stand quietly. Start at the top of the horse's leg around his elbow, and gradually work your way down. If you start to work your way down and he starts to move, return to a spot where he is comfortable and continue from there. Basically, you will approach and retreat. You start at the top, rub your hand down the horse's leg and, once the horse starts to become a little nervous, go back to the top and start all over again. Pretty soon, your horse will understand that just because you are rubbing his leg, he doesn't have to panic or run away. Prove to him first that you are not going to hurt him.
Now, these first two steps might go quickly with some horses; and with others, especially young horses, it might take one or two sessions. Don't be in a hurry. Take your time, because in the long run, your patience will save time.
I like to teach my horse a cue to pick up his leg. What I do to ask my horse to pick up his leg is find the chestnut - the small, hard skin just above the knee on both the front and back legs - and put my thumb and forefinger on it and squeeze lightly. The makes the horse feel a little uncomfortable causing him to take the weight off that leg and pick it up for perhaps a split second. As soon as he does this, take the pressure off the chestnut immediately; and start to rub his leg once again. All you want the horse to do is lift his foot up off the ground for a second, then go back to rubbing his leg. You are not trying to pick the leg up. All you are trying to do is teach him a cue that when you press him, he should pick the leg up. If at any time he becomes nervous or starts to react badly, go back to the previous step(s) and do more desensitizing to your horse's legs.
Once you have your horse understanding the cue to pick his foot up, you can slide your hand down towards the fetlock and hold the foot off the ground for a second or two. As soon as he lets you hold his foot, drop it again, rub him, and repeat the squeeze. What you want to do is ask him to keep the foot off the ground a little bit longer each time. You might start with one second for the first five or six repetitions. Gradually work your way up - three seconds, four seconds and so on. What you are doing is giving the horse a chance to understand that just because he picks his foot up off the ground, it does not mean you are going to try to hold it there for a long time. Remember, especially with young horses, they have to learn to balance themselves on three legs. They can't go straight from standing on four legs to, all of a sudden, standing on three legs perfectly for ten minutes. Give them a chance to understand what you want them to do.
Now you are at the stage where your horse will lift his leg on cue, and hold it there for 10-15 seconds with your hand underneath his pastern or fetlock. With your other hand, gently rub up and down his leg and desensitize him while his leg is lifted off the ground. If at any stage your horse wants to try to move his leg around, try not to restrict him. Move back and forth with him. If you're holding his front leg and he wants to move it back and forth, gently hold it to keep it off the ground, but go back and forth with him. Do not try to keep his foot still. This will cause him to fight more and panic. As soon as he stops moving his leg, drop the foot and start all over again. Show him that as soon as he stops moving his leg, you will release his foot and put it on the ground. Now, if you horse ends up pulling his leg away from you and you are not able to keep it off the ground, this is not a problem. Just begin again going over all of the steps. Don't get in a fight with him. Treat the whole procedure as a casual game.
Now you should have your horse's foot to the stage where you can hold it off the ground, rub it with both hands while you keep it off the ground, and he is not interested in moving it around. Now start to desensitize your horse to the tapping sensation that he will feel when being shod. I usually start with my hand and tap it on the bottom of the horse's hoof until he relaxes. If, when you start tapping, the horse starts to resist, try to gently keep tapping and let the horse's leg move back and forth. As soon as the horse starts to relax and stops moving around, keep tapping for a few seconds, then release the leg to the ground. Show the horse that the quickest way to get rid of the tapping is to ignore it. Once you can do this successfully, get a shoeing hammer, a stick, a rock or anything that has some weight to it, and gently tap that on the horse's hoof. As your horse becomes calmer, start tapping harder. You are simulating and desensitizing your horse to the tapping sensation he will experience when the farrier comes. I find that most horses that don't like being shod are resistant to the hammering of the nails and the feeling of their foot being tapped and vibrated. Show your horse this is something he doesn't need to get worried about. This is an extremely good lesson for weanlings and yearlings, and if you do this leading up to the first time they are shod, their first experience is usually easy for both the horse and the farrier. Your farrier will appreciate your preparation.
Once you get to this step on both front legs, do it often. Remember, the answer is approach and retreat. If you think your horse is going to pull his foot away in five seconds, put the foot down in four seconds. Work on both front legs and get them really good before you move to the back legs. The front legs will generally be easier than the back legs.
The next step is working on the back legs. When you start this, you should follow the same steps, beginning with the rope. If he starts to really kick and thrash at any point, to where you feel unsafe, just drop the rope and start again. All you have to do is keep the horse's nose tipped towards you and that will cause the hindquarters to move away from you. As long as you are standing up towards the horse's shoulder, he won't be able to kick you.
From here, follow exactly the same steps as above.
A success tip on the back leg is that once you get to the point where you are asking your horse to keep his foot off the ground and you start to rub the horse's leg with your hand - hold the horse's leg with your hand under the horse's hoof towards the horse's toe and curl the toe backwards. If you hold it like this, you will be less likely to cause claustrophobia in the horse. Try not to grip tightly on the pastern with your hand.
COMMON MISTAKES
Don't do this when your horse is fresh. If you have not worked your horse for a few days and he has been locked in a stall, he won't have his attention on you. Try this exercise at the end of a groundwork session or riding session when you feel you have your horse worked out emotionally, physically and mentally enough to stand still and pay attention to you. These steps will work a lot better if you already have respect from your horse, as I have taught you in all the previous articles.
Trying to pick up and hold the foot up too soon. Remember, most people are trying to pick up the horse's foot and restrict it. This is the opposite of what a prey animal can tolerate unless he understands you will not hurt him. You need to tell your horse almost the opposite - that you don't want to pick the foot up. The more you rub him and desensitize the leg, pick it up in small stages and slowly start to hold it longer and longer, the less the horse will mind you holding his foot off the ground.
Not desensitizing the horse enough to your touch. Remember, if you cannot rub your horse's leg up and down with both hands, the rope, and have him completely bored and not interested in moving away or getting frightened, don't even try to pick the foot up.
Your horse tries to pull his leg away or tries to fight you. Don't try to stop the leg from moving. Move with the leg. If the leg starts to move so much that you can't hold on to it, just drop it and start the steps again. If you have the rope around your horse's leg and he starts to move or kick towards the rope, move the rope further up the horse's leg and tip the horse's nose towards you. Remember, when you see-saw the rope, don't do it so hard that it might cause the horse a rope burn. Once he understands the rope won't hurt him, he will stop kicking. Try not to reprimand him, as it will only make him feel more defensive at this point.
Don't do this in a restricted area like a stall or tie the horse. Give your horse plenty of room to move around. Ideally, do this in a 50-foot round pen or an arena. Remember, when the horse wants to move, let him; and as long as your keep his head tipped toward you, he can't run away. Even if he drifts sideways or backwards, go with him.
TROUBLESHOOTING
Your horse walks around and doesn't stand still when the rope is around his legs or when you are rubbing him - he begins to panic. Be patient and persistent - stay in position and keep rubbing his legs until he starts to relax. Remember, start at the top of the leg and work your way down. If you are rubbing on your horse's leg and you get down towards his knee or hock and he starts to get nervous, just move back towards the top of the horse's leg again. Start where he is comfortable and work down from there. As soon as he relaxes, take your hands away or stop moving the rope, pat your horse and repeat it again.
When you start to pat the horse's hoof with your hand or with a shoeing hammer, your horse starts to move his leg back and forth and wants to pull away. Try to keep tapping the horse with a little lighter tap. Start out gently and slowly increase the tapping sensation as the horse starts to relax. Remember, if you get three taps and the horse stands still, put the foot down and start again. Next time try to get four taps before you put the foot down. If the horse is pulling away, you should not be holding on to his leg and trying to stop him from moving. Let your arm go back and forth with the horse's leg and, if you can, keep up the tapping as he keeps moving it. This will show him that, just because he is moving his leg, the tapping sensation is not going to go away. Do not try to tap the horse's hoof with your hand or your hammer until you can completely pick up all four feet well and handle them well with him completely relaxed. If you can't do that, don't expect him to stand there while you tap his hoof.
Your horse tries to kick or strike at the rope when it's around his leg. Just try to loosen up the rope and not pull it quite as hard. You might try lifting your arms up and pulling the rope higher up his leg. The higher up his leg it is, the less defensive he will probably be. Once the horse realizes that you aren't going to hurt him with the rope, he will lose his defensiveness and stop trying to kick at you. The worst thing you can do is to pull on the roper harder and reprimand the horse, or stop him from kicking. Just go with it. Act like he's not doing it, and soon he won't be doing it.
07-09-2007, 11:13 AM
#24
Registered User
Mcoleman,
This is actually great advice from Clinton. I have used it on a 23 yr old
TW/Arabian cross. He would try to walk away from you if you tried to pick up his back feet. He is a high spirited horse and if you wound him up he would either give or kick out at you. Not to hurt you, just to warn you away. I did this with him on his back feet and it worked. I went round and around getting him to stand still but he really is a quick learner. By the third time he had it figured out and I learned myself.
This is actually great advice from Clinton. I have used it on a 23 yr old
TW/Arabian cross. He would try to walk away from you if you tried to pick up his back feet. He is a high spirited horse and if you wound him up he would either give or kick out at you. Not to hurt you, just to warn you away. I did this with him on his back feet and it worked. I went round and around getting him to stand still but he really is a quick learner. By the third time he had it figured out and I learned myself.
07-09-2007, 07:04 PM
#25
Registered User
Hobble Break Every Horse Early
There are those that will disagree; but, I hobble break every horse I get, as soon as possible.
This has several advantages, such as if the horse gets tangled in a fence, or whatever, he will associate this with the hobbles, and know that jerking and fighting won't get him anywhere, so he will patiently wait for someone to come along and turn him loose.
Also, a hobble-broke horse is not so quick to fight having his feet held.
Many otherwise gentle horses will not abide a hoof being held; this goes back to flight being a horses first line of defense, and he knows he can't run with you holding his running gear.
I will also stick my neck out and say this, and many I know will disagree, if a man is going to swing a leg across a horse's back and ride, that man needs to know how to, and do himself, the shoeing on his own horse.
Myself, and what few guy's that I will trail-ride with, all do our own shoeing, and have for over 30 years, and I have never seen one of our horses take a lame step.
No, we don't have any certificates or qualifications, but any one of us have tacked on a lot of shoes.
This has several advantages, such as if the horse gets tangled in a fence, or whatever, he will associate this with the hobbles, and know that jerking and fighting won't get him anywhere, so he will patiently wait for someone to come along and turn him loose.
Also, a hobble-broke horse is not so quick to fight having his feet held.
Many otherwise gentle horses will not abide a hoof being held; this goes back to flight being a horses first line of defense, and he knows he can't run with you holding his running gear.
I will also stick my neck out and say this, and many I know will disagree, if a man is going to swing a leg across a horse's back and ride, that man needs to know how to, and do himself, the shoeing on his own horse.
Myself, and what few guy's that I will trail-ride with, all do our own shoeing, and have for over 30 years, and I have never seen one of our horses take a lame step.
No, we don't have any certificates or qualifications, but any one of us have tacked on a lot of shoes.
07-09-2007, 07:58 PM
#26
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Well, I guess it's time for me to pop back into this conversation again. I should have also given my perspective on both sides.
I am also a horse owner, trainer, etc - that's what led me to learning shoeing, one more thing to add to my horse skills. As an owner and trainer, I saw it my job to train my horses for foot handling and from the day they were born their feet were picked up, cleaned out, handled a lot. Trimming and shoeing is hard work, fighting a horse makes it harder. It is a dangerous occupation and a good shoer IS a blessing and hard to find. I also went out of my way to create a very safe working area for shoeing and trimming. My horses were/are trimmed/shod on a 6-8 week schedule depending on thier individual needs. I never put a farrier under a horse I would not work on myself, and if I had one that was skiddish about their feet, they got twice as much foot training time. When my once-in-a-lifetime, excellent farrier retired, I could not find another even half as good, half as reliable, so that was my impetus to learn and do it myself.
Not to dislocate my shoulder patting my back, but I am an outstanding farrier. My work is meticulous, I take my time and have pride about the job at hand. I shod many horses in my own barn and others outside my barn for many years. I have worked on some of the most unruly horses to the most gentle horses, I never quit on a horse that was spoiled rotten, just stayed with the process until done. Most of the time I refused to shoe the unruly ones, just would trim them until they learned to stand for foot work. There is nothing like 80 or 90 stitches in your leg to teach you NOT to drive nails and shoe an unruly one. There is also nothing like loosing weeks of income for the same reason having been laid up by that unruly horse. Everyone depends on you inbetween that time, and a lot of good horses are left go till you recover from the one that hurt you.
It IS the owners responsibility to present you with a safe horse and yours to do the best job and be a good shoer. The worst horse on the ground is the safest kids horse in the saddle. The safest on the ground is the worst in the saddle. Most horses are somewhere in between and you do the dance and get the job done. I used to do trimming for the wild horse program, while those horses never had their feet trimmed in their lives, after a short session with them EVEN THEY tolerated their feet being trimmed with too much problem. Any horse that cannot learn the process has only one destiny, they will hurt their farrier or farriers, they will hurt your family or you, and they are the ones that have ALPO written all over them.
CD
I am also a horse owner, trainer, etc - that's what led me to learning shoeing, one more thing to add to my horse skills. As an owner and trainer, I saw it my job to train my horses for foot handling and from the day they were born their feet were picked up, cleaned out, handled a lot. Trimming and shoeing is hard work, fighting a horse makes it harder. It is a dangerous occupation and a good shoer IS a blessing and hard to find. I also went out of my way to create a very safe working area for shoeing and trimming. My horses were/are trimmed/shod on a 6-8 week schedule depending on thier individual needs. I never put a farrier under a horse I would not work on myself, and if I had one that was skiddish about their feet, they got twice as much foot training time. When my once-in-a-lifetime, excellent farrier retired, I could not find another even half as good, half as reliable, so that was my impetus to learn and do it myself.
Not to dislocate my shoulder patting my back, but I am an outstanding farrier. My work is meticulous, I take my time and have pride about the job at hand. I shod many horses in my own barn and others outside my barn for many years. I have worked on some of the most unruly horses to the most gentle horses, I never quit on a horse that was spoiled rotten, just stayed with the process until done. Most of the time I refused to shoe the unruly ones, just would trim them until they learned to stand for foot work. There is nothing like 80 or 90 stitches in your leg to teach you NOT to drive nails and shoe an unruly one. There is also nothing like loosing weeks of income for the same reason having been laid up by that unruly horse. Everyone depends on you inbetween that time, and a lot of good horses are left go till you recover from the one that hurt you.
It IS the owners responsibility to present you with a safe horse and yours to do the best job and be a good shoer. The worst horse on the ground is the safest kids horse in the saddle. The safest on the ground is the worst in the saddle. Most horses are somewhere in between and you do the dance and get the job done. I used to do trimming for the wild horse program, while those horses never had their feet trimmed in their lives, after a short session with them EVEN THEY tolerated their feet being trimmed with too much problem. Any horse that cannot learn the process has only one destiny, they will hurt their farrier or farriers, they will hurt your family or you, and they are the ones that have ALPO written all over them.
CD
I recall many old timers telling me "There are enough good horses out there that you don't have to DEAL with the bad ones. They are the ones that will get you hurt."
But let me say this. It is very frustrating when you "never quit on a horse that is spoiled rotten" and try to explain to the owner that the horse is acting this way because it is not disciplined correctly and make some suggestions as to how the situations could be better handled that fall on deaf ears. Also I have spent time working through problems with some spoiled horses just to find when I returned that the horse was worse than before.
A quality that a good Farrier should have is the ability to educate people about their horses feet and give good pointers on how to handle them safely. The difficult thing is that a lot of people do not want to hear you tell them how to handle their horse. In my experience, people who deal and communicate well with animals (horses) do not communicate as well with people.
07-09-2007, 10:39 PM
#28
Registered User
Very Well Spoken
Well Said CD X2.
I recall many old timers telling me "There are enough good horses out there that you don't have to DEAL with the bad ones. They are the ones that will get you hurt."
But let me say this. It is very frustrating when you "never quit on a horse that is spoiled rotten" and try to explain to the owner that the horse is acting this way because it is not disciplined correctly and make some suggestions as to how the situations could be better handled that fall on deaf ears. Also I have spent time working through problems with some spoiled horses just to find when I returned that the horse was worse than before.
A quality that a good Farrier should have is the ability to educate people about their horses feet and give good pointers on how to handle them safely. The difficult thing is that a lot of people do not want to hear you tell them how to handle their horse. In my experience, people who deal and communicate well with animals (horses) do not communicate as well with people.
I recall many old timers telling me "There are enough good horses out there that you don't have to DEAL with the bad ones. They are the ones that will get you hurt."
But let me say this. It is very frustrating when you "never quit on a horse that is spoiled rotten" and try to explain to the owner that the horse is acting this way because it is not disciplined correctly and make some suggestions as to how the situations could be better handled that fall on deaf ears. Also I have spent time working through problems with some spoiled horses just to find when I returned that the horse was worse than before.
A quality that a good Farrier should have is the ability to educate people about their horses feet and give good pointers on how to handle them safely. The difficult thing is that a lot of people do not want to hear you tell them how to handle their horse. In my experience, people who deal and communicate well with animals (horses) do not communicate as well with people.
I agree with, and can relate to, these statements, almost 98%.
07-09-2007, 10:52 PM
#29
Well im not a farrier, but i have a great one, he happened to be world champ in calf roping last year. It took him 45 min to shoe mine and he talked a lot. A good farrier can as a rule deal with a unrulely horse, but the owner should help by making his horse mind. Mines a appencix bred and at almost 17 hands shes not little, if she wanted to act up it be a headache. But horses are sensitive to leadership, its in thier nature, the farrier should show confidence and display to the horse hes the boss, horse dont respect and can even dislike a person that doesnt lead. I got Taz when she was 4, she wasnt a problem but i pick her feet up just about every time i feed. It gets her used to it and her only bad habit is she wants chew on my lead rope. So IMO the owner should do his part but a great farrier should be able to overcome a unrulely horse unless its just a complete brat.