Another whacked out mom, jeez!
11-22-2004, 03:54 PM
#1
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Another whacked out mom, jeez!
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Dang! I'm tired of hearing about this kind of crap. What makes a person chop off the arms of their kid? If something in your head tells you to chop your kid's arms off.
RUN!!! DON'T WALK, TO THE NEAREST NUT FARM AND CHECK YOURSELF IN!
My statement might be in bad taste, but I don't care.
Dang! I'm tired of hearing about this kind of crap. What makes a person chop off the arms of their kid? If something in your head tells you to chop your kid's arms off.
RUN!!! DON'T WALK, TO THE NEAREST NUT FARM AND CHECK YOURSELF IN!
My statement might be in bad taste, but I don't care.
11-22-2004, 05:39 PM
#5
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PPD can be very devistating and take on many forms. I'm not saying its an excuse, not at all. Like someone said check yourself in when you have homicidal thoughts. (half of this forum would be in a rubber room) But the depression is very real to the person involved.
11-22-2004, 07:16 PM
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Is there any kind of depression that is an excuse for maiming or murder A CHILD? ABSOLUTELY NOT. You can make all the arguments you want for "mental disease or defect" , but it just don't wash in my book. If there was any mental disease before hand then there is something to look at. If not, well, I said it earlier.
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11-22-2004, 07:24 PM
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Yeah...no telling what somebody will do when they're severely depressed.
A similar thing happened in AK last summer. Child welfare officials were involved in a case w/ a mother and 3 boys, 1 preteen, the other two were teens. The lady was schizophrenic or something and thought her oldest son, who was only 17, was an FBI agent out to get her. One day she just shot all her boys. Turns out she hadn't been taking her meds.
I also believe that the child welfare organizations aren't doing enough to help the children who really need it. They're over-worked and under-staffed.
At the same time, I think we as Americans have become soft. The days of "Shut up and deal with it," have passed. Now it's "Let's get you on some meds and let's talk about your problems over the next few weeks..." Taking meds is your choice...and who knows what's gonna happen between appointment #1 and #6 for example...I mean, you're not fully "over it" until you stop seeing the shrink.
Also, if you have some kinda post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD as the Vietnam vets know it) you should be watched 24/7. That was the first mistake. Some people can hide their emotions pretty well, and if anybody is in that kinda position they shouldn't have anybody in THEIR care. You don't see somebody w/ a broken leg trying to take care of somebody who has a broken back do you? Then I don't think anybody w/ any serious mental issues should be taking care of anybody else. That in itself is morally wrong.
A similar thing happened in AK last summer. Child welfare officials were involved in a case w/ a mother and 3 boys, 1 preteen, the other two were teens. The lady was schizophrenic or something and thought her oldest son, who was only 17, was an FBI agent out to get her. One day she just shot all her boys. Turns out she hadn't been taking her meds.
I also believe that the child welfare organizations aren't doing enough to help the children who really need it. They're over-worked and under-staffed.
At the same time, I think we as Americans have become soft. The days of "Shut up and deal with it," have passed. Now it's "Let's get you on some meds and let's talk about your problems over the next few weeks..." Taking meds is your choice...and who knows what's gonna happen between appointment #1 and #6 for example...I mean, you're not fully "over it" until you stop seeing the shrink.
Also, if you have some kinda post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD as the Vietnam vets know it) you should be watched 24/7. That was the first mistake. Some people can hide their emotions pretty well, and if anybody is in that kinda position they shouldn't have anybody in THEIR care. You don't see somebody w/ a broken leg trying to take care of somebody who has a broken back do you? Then I don't think anybody w/ any serious mental issues should be taking care of anybody else. That in itself is morally wrong.
11-22-2004, 08:46 PM
#9
Registered User
That's horrible.
I think our criminal justice system has a problem dealing with this kind of extreme incident... People feel that no sane person could do something like this, therefore the person must not be responsible based only on the nature of the act... but if you follow that line of thought it may as well not be illegal to chop up your kid.
As far as I am concerned, the lady needs to be locked up, either in prison or a state hospital.
I also agree that child welfare folks have a really tough job. If they don't take a kid that gets killed, obviously it is their fault and a good news story. If they feel a parent is so unfit that they do take a kid, news folks can just clean up the parents, put a camera in front of them, and hear how their kids got taken away for no reason. Another good news story, and child welfare cases are almost always confidential, so the agency can't defend what they did. (Yes, I also realize there are times when child welfare folks mess up).
I think our criminal justice system has a problem dealing with this kind of extreme incident... People feel that no sane person could do something like this, therefore the person must not be responsible based only on the nature of the act... but if you follow that line of thought it may as well not be illegal to chop up your kid.
As far as I am concerned, the lady needs to be locked up, either in prison or a state hospital.
I also agree that child welfare folks have a really tough job. If they don't take a kid that gets killed, obviously it is their fault and a good news story. If they feel a parent is so unfit that they do take a kid, news folks can just clean up the parents, put a camera in front of them, and hear how their kids got taken away for no reason. Another good news story, and child welfare cases are almost always confidential, so the agency can't defend what they did. (Yes, I also realize there are times when child welfare folks mess up).
11-22-2004, 08:59 PM
#10
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We run a juvenile fire setters program, (NO, we don't teach them how to set fires!), and we work with 'distressed' teens quite often. You just wouldn't believe some of the things parents will do to their own kids. One of the kids that sticks out in my mind came into the program when he was 14. He'd been taken away from his mother, (single parent family-drug abuser mother), because she walked into his bedroom and found him doing what most 'normal', red-blooded 14 year old boys DO at that age. (use your imagination if you don't know the activity I'm speaking of here. It usually involves a Playboy magazine or other similar 'stimulation')
Anyway, because this kid was looking at an 'alternative' magazine, his mother assumed he must be gay, and no child of hers was going to disgrace her in that fashion. To teach him a lesson, she proceded to attack him with his own baseball bat, repeatedly beating his wrists with a few misplaced blows connecting with his head. She later told investigators if her son was inclined to use his wrists for THAT purpose, he deserved to have them beaten. When this kid regained conciousness from the misplaced head-blows, (almost 3 hours later), both wrists had indeed been broken, were swollen and he couldn't move his hands or fingers, not to mention the unbearable pain he was in. Not being able to turn the doorknob because he couldn't grip it well enough, he finally broke a window with his elbow, (getting pretty good cuts in the process), and went to a neighbors house for help. He was placed in foster care and counseling where it was discovered that this wasn't the first time he'd been beaten, altho never this severely.
You're right in that the mind works in peculiar ways. This kid started to set small fires in the 2 foster homes he was placed in. Anyone that showed any caring towards him was a target for his fire setting behavior. As it turns out, this kid was never shown any love or caring that we could determine. He didn't know how to handle it and was afraid that the caring shown to him by his foster families was something that would be taken away or somehow turned against him, so he set fires that made it neccessay to place him with a new family.
Once I figured out what this kid was all about and I gained enough of his trust to be able to talk to him about his problems, I was able to make him understand that love, understanding and acceptance is the way MOST of the world treats kids. I'm unable to be a foster parent, but I have become somewhat of a 'big-brother' to this kid, and he's come a LONG way from 4 years ago. He's 18 now, has a part time job and will finish highschool next year. There's been no fire setting recurrances nor has he had a desire to start anything. He's a long way from what you or I would consider a 'normal' 18 year old, but at least his head is screwed on a little straighter than when we had first contact with him. I don't know that I'd have come out of a similar situation in as good of a condition as he is progressing towards. (I've just touched on the major points of abuse his mother put him thru - I'd be in the nut-house if I were in his shoes)
I don't really know why I decided to tell you guys all this. I guess just to let you know there are a lot of loonies out there. (as if you didn't already know that!) I get a lot of satisfaction from seeing a kid turn around this dramatically, and I don't get as close to every kid that comes into the program as I did with this one. But then again, most don't suffer the traumatic events to this extent either. But there always seems to be one or two a year that have similar backgrounds with equally distressing stories.
My conclusion: stupid people shouldn't breed.
chaikwa.
Anyway, because this kid was looking at an 'alternative' magazine, his mother assumed he must be gay, and no child of hers was going to disgrace her in that fashion. To teach him a lesson, she proceded to attack him with his own baseball bat, repeatedly beating his wrists with a few misplaced blows connecting with his head. She later told investigators if her son was inclined to use his wrists for THAT purpose, he deserved to have them beaten. When this kid regained conciousness from the misplaced head-blows, (almost 3 hours later), both wrists had indeed been broken, were swollen and he couldn't move his hands or fingers, not to mention the unbearable pain he was in. Not being able to turn the doorknob because he couldn't grip it well enough, he finally broke a window with his elbow, (getting pretty good cuts in the process), and went to a neighbors house for help. He was placed in foster care and counseling where it was discovered that this wasn't the first time he'd been beaten, altho never this severely.
You're right in that the mind works in peculiar ways. This kid started to set small fires in the 2 foster homes he was placed in. Anyone that showed any caring towards him was a target for his fire setting behavior. As it turns out, this kid was never shown any love or caring that we could determine. He didn't know how to handle it and was afraid that the caring shown to him by his foster families was something that would be taken away or somehow turned against him, so he set fires that made it neccessay to place him with a new family.
Once I figured out what this kid was all about and I gained enough of his trust to be able to talk to him about his problems, I was able to make him understand that love, understanding and acceptance is the way MOST of the world treats kids. I'm unable to be a foster parent, but I have become somewhat of a 'big-brother' to this kid, and he's come a LONG way from 4 years ago. He's 18 now, has a part time job and will finish highschool next year. There's been no fire setting recurrances nor has he had a desire to start anything. He's a long way from what you or I would consider a 'normal' 18 year old, but at least his head is screwed on a little straighter than when we had first contact with him. I don't know that I'd have come out of a similar situation in as good of a condition as he is progressing towards. (I've just touched on the major points of abuse his mother put him thru - I'd be in the nut-house if I were in his shoes)
I don't really know why I decided to tell you guys all this. I guess just to let you know there are a lot of loonies out there. (as if you didn't already know that!) I get a lot of satisfaction from seeing a kid turn around this dramatically, and I don't get as close to every kid that comes into the program as I did with this one. But then again, most don't suffer the traumatic events to this extent either. But there always seems to be one or two a year that have similar backgrounds with equally distressing stories.
My conclusion: stupid people shouldn't breed.
chaikwa.
11-22-2004, 09:07 PM
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Makes me sick. I have 2 children, boys 7 and 2, just makes me ill. Some wacko woman here in washington last week got caught dehydrating and starving her kids to death, I think they were 19 months and 2 months. Why is it that I have to pay a fortune to keep my class A drivers license, but any nut case who can get pregnant can be responsible for taking care of children. 
11-22-2004, 10:42 PM
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Reading that link just makes my blood boil.
I have two small ones at home (6yr and 2yr olds) I just can't imagine them doing anything that would warrant any action even remotely close to what this lady did. I feel such sadness for the wee one and also for the rest of the family. I think she should be drug out back and shot. No reason to waste money on a trial, jail time or anything even close to all that. It seems she indicated that she did the deed. I mean can you really trust that she won't do something like this in the future to her other children - I know I couldn't no matter how much counceling she received.
Chaikwa - My hats off to ya. Taking the time to help children as your doing makes you a hero in my book. Keep up the good work, the lord will remember you when the time comes.
I have two small ones at home (6yr and 2yr olds) I just can't imagine them doing anything that would warrant any action even remotely close to what this lady did. I feel such sadness for the wee one and also for the rest of the family. I think she should be drug out back and shot. No reason to waste money on a trial, jail time or anything even close to all that. It seems she indicated that she did the deed. I mean can you really trust that she won't do something like this in the future to her other children - I know I couldn't no matter how much counceling she received.
Chaikwa - My hats off to ya. Taking the time to help children as your doing makes you a hero in my book. Keep up the good work, the lord will remember you when the time comes.
11-23-2004, 12:35 AM
#15
Registered User
I did not read the link, I have enough problem knowing about it let alone reading it. A few years ago there was a push to change the Innocent due to insanity to Guilty due to insanity. Should have passed.