DuaneWKKC

I'll start by saying that I am not 'for war' but I am 100% behind the President on this one. There are times in life where you have to do what needs to be done, even if its not what you want to do. It is at these times where true leaderships shines. We have been blessed by a true leader who is willing to step to the plate and do what is necessary. I do not agree that the UN should be involved. They have known what is going on over there for years, and as a body have chosen to ignore it, therby endorsing the brutilization of 100's of thousands of Iraqies. I also think the new Iraqi Gov. would be crippled from the git go if the political correctness and corruption of the UN are allowed in there. The further away you can keep the UN from gov. the better off you will be. Yes, there may be a short period of destabilization in the area, but the correct path in life is very seldom the easiest. Also, I would challenge any person who would claim that the Middle East is 'Stable'. <br>We have gained an important foothold into the middle east through Kuwait by 'not' dominating their govt. and I beleive the same will happen in Iraq. It is important to note the Govt. in Iraq will not be selected by the US (The Collation of the Willing) but by the people of Iraq. We will simply help to stabalize the area untill their Govt. can land on its feet and become functional. Our goal is to not have to be there any longer than necessary.<br>For the people of the USA it is also important to know the one of the major backers of disarming the public is the UN. They have stated before they could not safely send troops to the US because the civilian population is so well armed. I for one hope it stays that way.<br><br>Godspeed to the troops of the willing and I pray for safe return of all.<br><br>Duane W.<br>

Dieseldude4x4

I won't speak for the rest of the site moderators but I will say from this moderators point of view, that I like the very civil and informative way this post has gone to this point. I have been watching every post waiting for the flamethrowers to come out. Everyone has stated very valid points and beliefs and left it at that with no flames ar anything like that which we do not need. This has been very professional to this point, typical of the quality people we have on this site. <br><br>For what it's worth, thanks from me and keep up the good work.<br><br>DD4X4

shortround

Ain't even gonna touch this one.<br>Just gonna say that when I raised my right hand 35 years ago, I pledged to uphold the constitution of these United States and to protect it from all evils, both foreign and domestic, and to obey the orders of those appointed over me. I don't have to agree with those orders, or to even like them. What I have to do, not just because I swore allegance but also for myself, is to do the best I can to make sure that the others that may have to go before me or with me, will have the greatest amount of support possible, be it material, mental, or moral.<br>And that's all I'm gonna say.<br><br>Shortround out

AlpineRAM

Thanks DD ! I second the notion of keeping it civilized.<br><br>Duane, I hope that the US troops will leave Iraq as soon as possible, leaving behind a stable situation. <br>I agree that the middle east is nowhere near stable, nor has been in the past years. <br>The US conduct in the Kuwait war was IMHO very good, but the situations are nowhere near comparable. <br>Kuwait had a government that was rendered ineffective when Iraqui troops conquered the state. Then US and other allied troops removed the Iraqui presence. And then the old government was reinstated. The US and allied troops left. <br><br>In Iraq the last 35 years were dominated by regimes basically like the Baath party. All the offices and structures are filled with people who were supporters of Saddam Hussein. <br>I do not think that eleting a government will be the major problem for the Iraqui population. I think the executive branches that shall carry out the decisions of the government will be the problem. <br><br>As for your statement that the UN is backing the disarmament of the public: The USA has a kind of culture allowing the citizen to be armed. But now imagine Palestine or Lybia with the public armed like the US public. <br>I do not remember reading the statement about sending troops to the US by the UN.<br><br>AlpineRAM<br>

Shovelhead

I'd like to go on record that I support the troops, and think that we're doing a thankless job that everyone wants done but nobody else want to do. :
I just wish we could get a little more support from other countries.

DD had to dig this outta the attic for you. ;D

Dieseldude4x4

Good one Ed, I like that one.

GrandpasRam

Duane, good post, and I agree with you 100% on all counts. The last century is proof positive that, occasionally, tyrants come along that must be stopped, and that the UN has been completely incapable of facing these challenges (evil people) with the resolute conviction necessary to stop them before millions are killed, looted, maimed, etc. <br>Shortround, like you, I took that same oath 33 years ago, and in my view, once taken, should hold for life regardless of one's military status.<br>AlpineRam, you are correct about us Americans having a culture of armed citizens, which is becoming more unique with time. It stems from our fight for independence and needs in an uncivilized world to provide pretection for ourselves throughout our history as a nation - we have not always been a major military power. WWI and WWII, for us, were primarily successful because our military marksmen were good marksmen before entering the military. As for the UN stating anything about entry into US territory, check the Geneva and Brazil accords from 5 or 6 years ago, and you will find the accord relates to disarming public citizens of small arms for all countries involved, setting up a World Court (whose juridiction is applied to even INTERNAL civil and criminal matters, thereby dissolving national soveriegnty of any nation with or without their consent), and the discussions revolving around these accords was that the US would be difficult to do this with until the public could be disarmed. I believe the name of the Brazil accord was called Agena 12.<br><br>Good posts, all. I am glad to be on a site with good people who think before they speak.

Hoss

I support our president and this war 100%. Nuff said.

converteddzlr

I support what has been done and still needs to be done. But I have one little niggling thought rattling around in my brain, and that is ... If it's being done to bring an end to a tyrannical regime (along with the other reasons), then why hasn't it happened before in countries with records just as bad or worse, and where does the line get drawn??<br><br>I also agree that the UN is a &quot;toothless tiger&quot; as Alpine Ram said. Look at what happened in Rwanda, Somalia, etc. etc.<br><br>Sometimes I wish that I didn't know so much about the world. I guess that it's true, sometimes Ignorance IS Bliss! [undecided]

NWDave

[quote author=converteddzlr link=board=10;threadid=13505;start=15#127965 date=1050350321]
I support what has been done and still needs to be done. But I have one little niggling thought rattling around in my brain, and that is ... If it's being done to bring an end to a tyrannical regime (along with the other reasons), then why hasn't it happened before in countries with records just as bad or worse, and where does the line get drawn??


[/quote]

I think someone else (like G.W. Bush) has the same niggling thought rattling around. He's told Syria that we're lookin' hard at you now. North Korea seems to have decided to talk with our people about some things. Iran is cooperative.

You're not alone in your thought processes. Few outside this country realize the true impact that 9-11 had on the American psyche. With the exception of the few, less than 10% by some counts, we're upset and ready to do something about it. Thats why our President has such solid support, it was our country that was attacked brutally. Innocent civilians were slaughtered without regard for any other reason than we are the evil nation and deserved it. Sorry for getting carried away here. I know we're suppose to keep it calm and orderly and it certainly has been that. I tip my hat to all who have joined in and helped keep this discussion rational and reasonable. There is still hope.

~Dave

PistolWhipt

I fully support the President on this one and I agree with Short Round regarding the oath. It still torques me to no end thinking about how many times we were attacked during the Clinton years and did very little to take care of the problem. <br> I guess it just took attacking innocent civilians on our soil to make the hair on America's neck stand up. I don't remember much support when the USS Cole was attacked. <br><br> We may not be the most popular nation in the world but we are darn sure the most effective. President Bush needs an I.T.C.O.B. patch (like bikers wear) for his flight jacket ...<br>&quot;I Take Care Of Business&quot;<br><br>Git Sum,<br>PISTOL <br><br>

converteddzlr

NWDave,<br><br>Don't get me wrong, I stand shoulder to shoulder with y'all on this one. <br><br>Ken

Master Diver

War is unfortunate, however;

For those who never have, or worse yet, are unwilling to lay the ultimate sacrifice upon the altar of Freedom.

They obviously don't appreciate the freedom they enjoy!

What is of the greatest importance is to &quot;Support our Troops&quot;

Celebrities, especially those who have made Millions of $$ exploiting war in movies etc. should be sent a message, that we will not tolerate such a lack of support for our Troops and our President!

95ramtough

I love how I can come to this site and read something like this and there are no idiots flaming! <br><br>I support the president and troops 110%! The president and his team know a whole lot more than I about the situation in Iraq. Thats the way I feel at least. <br><br>Alpine- It is cool to see an &quot;outsiders&quot; view of this. You have very valid points that most people in the US would never consider. JMO, I enjoyed hearing your point of view in this matter.