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Old 06-21-2004 | 03:31 PM
  #16  
AlpineRAM's Avatar
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From: Austria Europe
Well I must say that I feel a little misunderstood by some guys on this thread: I do feel that I have the right to self defense in a threatening situation. But over here when you see somebody stealing something and he is no danger to you, like you being on the first floor of a locked house and he's stealing something from the bed of your truck if you take your gun and shoot him you'll be convicted. If you prepare for doing so by laying a bait in the truck bed and waiting camouflaged somewhere to get one it's considered murder. If it's a situation where somebody has forced entry into the same building with you and carries something that can be used as a weapon it's considered self defense over here. That's what I meant before.
And IMHO it's better to prepare to be able to give evidence without resorting to violence and supporting the law enforcement by giving them videos or pictures of the perpetrators instead of giving them the bodies. ( If just for the hassle you can get into for using lethal force)
Naturally, if you are in danger you'll have to do something about it. (And I must admit that I'm an armed citizen over here, and that I pray that I'll never have to use it against a person)

Bentwings: I can understand your anger and frustration. I can just send you my best wishes to get out of this situation and that your kids will remain drug free.

Just to clarify

AlpineRAM
Old 06-21-2004 | 03:37 PM
  #17  
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From: Central Texas
Originally posted by MnTom
Well guys and gals, The way I see things like this is: The only ones that can say exactly what they would do in a "threatening" situation are the members of law enforcement. They are the ones that have the training to tell a percieved from a real threat. All the rest of us do not have the training to be able to tell me or your next door neighbor exactly what you will do. We all will react to the given circumstances. I hope and pray that NO ONE here is ever forced into the situation of having to take someones life. However, I do agree with what bentwings wants to do. I feel very much the same way about the person who assaulted me. But that doesn't make it right. I do know that I cannot do much about it as far as physical violence. The only recource that I have is by going through the legal system. The only thing I am looking for here is for everyone to keep a level head. It is way too easy to get wound up in the emotional situation and lose all chance of a "reasonable" solution. That is my opinion. Just remember "an opinion is just like a certain bodily "orifice". We all have one and they are all different".
Tom
Excellent post. Without being in the situation yourself you can't really say how you will react. That is precisely why TRAINING is so very important. Train your body. Train your mind. Then, when a situation arises, you react just as trained for.
Old 06-21-2004 | 04:18 PM
  #18  
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From: NC Mtns near Boone
True story with one mistake after another, thank goodness no one was hurt:
It's 2:00 AM one January morning some years ago. The temp outside is below freezing. My wife wakes up with a headache, gets up and turns on the TV and watches it in the dark. She hears a noise on the front porch near the front door. The front door has sidelites with curtains. Because there's a security lite, she sees a shadow move across the sidelite window so she goes to the sidelite and pulls back the curtain and screams. She wakes me saying, “There's a black man on the porch and he ran when I turned on the porch light. He had his hands cupped against the window so he could see in."
Before I tell you what I did, tell me what would you do?
Old 06-21-2004 | 04:27 PM
  #19  
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C'MON MAN... the suspense is killing me.

I live out in the country, andI have curtains on my back door, and everymorning I spread them and look out just before i walk out,,(its dark when i leave). Man it would scare the bejeezes outa me if there was someone there. Maybe borderline heartattack-kinda-scared.
Old 06-21-2004 | 04:58 PM
  #20  
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From: Sandy, Utah
Originally posted by natstayl
Before I tell you what I did, tell me what would you do?
Call 911, report a prowler, suspicious activity.

Grab my gun and and wait where I can see all entrances into the house.

Once the police arrive, go outside and describe what I saw.
Leaving the gun inside of course.


phox
Old 06-21-2004 | 05:05 PM
  #21  
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From: Clearwater, FL
I agree w/ everybody here...there's the right thing to do...and then there's what you would do if it actually happens. It's just too bad that the laws can't be black and white...wrong or right. Any law can be twisted around w/ the right lawyers...which is very sad.
Old 06-21-2004 | 05:19 PM
  #22  
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From: NC Mtns near Boone
Sad and true. If anyone ever wrote a book on what NOT to do, they would cite me as the example of doing the incorrect thing. Here's the rest of the story.

In a panic, I got semi dressed. I put on a pair of jeans, pulled my jacket over my t-shirt and stuck the revolver in my pocket and left my wallet on the dresser. (Mistake no.1 leaving the wallet at home.) As I snuck out the back door, I told the wife to wake the kids, load the rifle, and stay together in the center of the house. (She already called 911) When I’m out of sight turn the floodlights on.
I used her car because it’s quiet, the driveway is a couple of hundred feet long and the nearest neighbor is 1/8 mile away. I drive out the driveway with the headlights off and the pistol in the door panel. I see the kid run and hide in the bushes between the highway and the driveway. I drive the car into the bushes after him. He runs a step, I order him to stop or I’ll shoot and pull the hammer back on the revolver... lo and behold, he stops in his tracks and does everything I tell him to do.
He says he’s hitching to Boone from Statesville (approx 70 miles) and has no money. He was hoping someone would put him up for the night. (There’s not a person of color that lives within 20 miles of me where would he get that idea?) So help me, he asked for forgiveness, said he was sorry he bothered us and started walking toward the highway, said he was going to continue walking to Boone.
Now being the Samaritan I always thought myself to be, I tell him I’ll give him a ride to Boone fearing the neighbors will certainly shoot him or at least sic the dogs on him. I don’t tell the wife what I’m doing. (Mistake no. 2, perhaps no.3)
I drive the kid to Boone and deliver him to the police station. I tell the officer everything, He takes my revolver from the door panel and unloads it and gives it back to me, tells me to put the bullets in the opposite pocket as the gun, and next time get the wallet and leave the gun at home. He tells me there’s an APB for the kid, he’s retarded and he’s walked off from a group home two days earlier; and by-the-way, call your wife she's worried about you. End of story. Next time I hope to act more civil by not jumping to so many conclusions. Adrenalin rush clouds the mind. Nat
Old 06-21-2004 | 05:37 PM
  #23  
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WOW.....you are brave.

I have given people rides in the past, but i make them ride in the bed. That way I can keep an eye on them. If they think they are too good to ride in the back, then I tell them that i guess they dont want to get there that bad, and roll out.
Old 06-21-2004 | 05:53 PM
  #24  
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From: NC Mtns near Boone
Not brave at all. I had my hand on top of the revolver all the way.
Seriously you learn from such. I almost shot a dumb, I mean ignorant retarded kid in the back because he ran. He didn't know any better. He was only the length of a car hood away and my headlights were on brite then. Thank heaven he stopped running. Nat
Old 06-22-2004 | 12:32 AM
  #25  
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Can't we all just get along???
Old 06-22-2004 | 01:38 AM
  #26  
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From: Iowa
Somebody comes in my house, they are DONE. That's where my family lives. If they are outside it, they can have my trucks, my dirt bike, my tools, and my mower. Just make sure the little holes are in the front of them. This thread sucks.
Old 06-22-2004 | 07:08 AM
  #27  
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From: NC Mtns near Boone
Originally posted by IA_James
Somebody comes in my house, they are DONE. That's where my family lives. If they are outside it, they can have my trucks, my dirt bike, my tools, and my mower. Just make sure the little holes are in the front of them. This thread sucks.
Why do you think so? Nat
Old 06-22-2004 | 08:18 AM
  #28  
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From: Central Texas
Originally posted by natstayl

Before I tell you what I did, tell me what would you do?
It's hard to say how you would react in a given situation. There are a lot of variables involved and adrenaline and everything else.

What I THINK I would do is slide on enough clothes to be decent while telling my wife to grab our son and go hide in the closet and call the police. Then I would probably holster my Glock 30, quietly go out the back door and cautiously walk the perimeter of my house to see if anyone was still there. If no one, I would go back inside and wait for the police to show up and file a report. If someone was still there, then my reaction would totally depend on their reaction to me being there.
Old 06-22-2004 | 08:24 AM
  #29  
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From: NC Mtns near Boone
Originally posted by Hoss
It's hard to say how you would react in a given situation. There are a lot of variables involved and adrenaline and everything else.

What I THINK I would do is slide on enough clothes to be decent while telling my wife to grab our son and go hide in the closet and call the police. Then I would probably holster my Glock 30, quietly go out the back door and cautiously walk the perimeter of my house to see if anyone was still there. If no one, I would go back inside and wait for the police to show up and file a report. If someone was still there, then my reaction would totally depend on their reaction to me being there.
...and if there is someone and you locate them, then what? Do you draw your Glock and scream like a wild man at him? I did.
Old 06-22-2004 | 09:55 AM
  #30  
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From: Lyndon KS
Tom, you'd be suprised at how many cops once faced with the reality of it, cant pull a trigger. As a Feild Training Officer, I have had to recommend the firing of a few over the years. It is a situation that sounds very cut and dried in discussion and theory, but can realy go to the very core of who you are and what you believe once it becomes a reality.
I , thank god, have never shot a man in the line of duty. I have been shot at, and returned fire, but although I average a 98% at the range in combat courses, I missed completly. I can tell you, that all the talk and thought you put into such a thing before it happens goes right out the bleeping window.
I would NEVER EVER EVER fire at a target I had not identified, it could be my kid out there messing around.
Very few things in this world are worth a human life, though I must admit, emotionaly I share the frustrations voiced in these posts.....
BENT WING, way to go... stand up for you and whats yours, but dont do it in such a way that they can wind up winning.......


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