oillyman

wikapedia has a great TRUE story on Amsoil

DBLR

RP many be good oil but I can buy Amsoil a lot cheaper then RP so I use Amsoil and have been very happy with it.

Robert373

Check your facts. The majority of Amsoil engine oils are not API certified. Only the XL Series (recommended 10,000 mile change interval) oils have API Certification.

Amsoil does a great job of alluding to having API Certification in thier advertising, but there is no API symbol on the bottle (which means they don't have it). Only the XL motor oils carry the API symbol on the bottle.

Why doesn't the "25,000 mile" oil have API certification? Because it can't pass the test.

oillyman

I'd suggest an education on how API cert's work. I'm not an expert on the subject, but I do know, it cost's many $ per formulation to carry the endorsement of API, change the formulation, or change the mix, pay the $. Amsoil goes by API standards to insure the highest possible quality and if not the highest or best test results, they reformulate to be the best and to hell with paying some beurocratic bs cert fee. Some of the Amsoil products do carry the coveted API label, why I don't know. Thanks

Robert373

API sets the standard for oil. And yes it costs money to maintain an organization to continue to set new standards of quality.

Also what would be the point of having a product tested just so the manufacturer can turn around and change it? Makes no sense to me.

Like it or not, organizations like API are required to provide a standard by which products are measured. This applies to everything from oil to the food you eat.

Amsoil has no business referencing a standard they choose not to support financially. It is the other legitimate companies that end up paying to keep API going, and Amsoil is reaping the benefits.

Amsoil 25,000 mile oil does not meet API standards due to excessive amounts of certain components in it's additive package.

oillyman

The point of having a product tested is to meet a minimum standard and all products are continually tested to insure they do. As far as I'm concerned, API is in colusion with the major oil and auto manufacturers, unlike Europe that has an independent organization to set not only lubricant standards but drain intervals as well. Amsoil has every right in my opinion to use the standards put forth by API and continually exceed the minimums do to a superior product unlike some API endorsed inferior products. Thanks

JKM

Ford Owns Cummins.

Robert373

I thought Ford owned Amsoil? I'm so confused.

Robert373

And who tests Amsoil to prove it to be superior? Amsoil themselves? There is a vote of confidence. Amsoil also shows meaningless ASTM tests on thier website to show how superior thier oil is. (four ball wear test)

I admit there are oils that barely pass API testing that get the Certification, but they still meet the requirements.

By all means use which ever oil you choose. But from my own past experience, and what I consider a lack of corporate ethics, Amsoil will never be run in any engine of mine, including my lawn mower.

oillyman

Amsoil continually tests to insure a higher quality product, I wouldn't expect any less from any good company. After that, it has had independent studies done to legitimize their data. They have had three done, 10W30 motor oil, motorcycle oils and gear lubes, affidavits are on file to verify independent tests, and can be had for free at thier website or a hard copy for a buck. ASTM test standards are API standards for the purpose of rating lubricants. Why would you use a product that just barely passes the test for one that far exceeds them? If you haven't been involved with Amsoil how can you possilby speak to their ethics? They are the most ethical from my experience. Good advice, use which ever you choose, but I choose to use one based on facts as to it's quality. Thanks

Robert373

This could go on all day...but I will clarify my previous post and call this discussion a day.

When I mentioned the ASTM test, I didn't mean the test was meaningless, I meant the test as applied to motor oil was meaningless. It has no relavance whatsoever.

However these test results to the untrained consumer do look very impressive. Absolutely misleading advertising from Amsoil. (problem with corporate ethics #1)

Amsoil also references API standards in the engine oil descriptions, leading to the consumer to believe they are in fact API certified when they are not. (problem with corporate ethics #2)

I also have used Amsoil in the past, and found it did not perform as advertised (through oil analysis). I did talk with the tech line, and found they had a well rehearsed list of excuses why thier oil did not perform in my particular application, and it was totally clear to me that if I had a serious problem, they were well prepared not to stand behind thier supposed warranty. (problem with corporate ethics #3).

I know they once claimed (Maybe still do) that they have never had to provide warranty due to an oil related failure. Probably true, but not because no one ever had a failure, but rather they won't stand behind thier product.

oillyman

I'll take their almost forty years experience with synthetic lubricants as my point of reference vs what ever bonifides of yours, you haven't said. Let's stick with facts that can be replicated and proven. Thanks for the great discussion.

Robert373

If you do a search you will find my facts, and oil sample results posted on this website.

genesag

At the risk of beating this subject to death; first of all, I stand corrected re: API certification. However, there is (in my mind at least) justification for the lack of API certification in many synthetic oils (not just Amsoils). API Certification was originally developed for mineral oils, so it allows petroleum companies to take advantage of "base stock interchange" which means that they can purchase their base stocks from any number of different suppliers and NOT need to retest each batch. Most synthetic base stocks are supplier specific and base stock interchange is NOT allowed, so if Amsoil wanted to blend an API-approved motor oil using the same type of base stock from a different supplier, they would need to retest and re-certify each time which would be time consuming and costly.

Over the past 40 years I have rebuilt over 1000 engines of all types from high performance racing engines, to heavy diesels, to lawn mower engines and to be truthful, I have NEVER seen an engine failure due to the KIND of oil in it- only lack of oil, improper maintenance, abuse, or an occasional manufacturing defect (ie. the 1975 Ford pickup that threw a rod at 3000 miles because one rod nut was never put on at the factory). I have however seen so much sludge, varnish, tar, cooked on petroleum in engines and cylinder wear in excess of .030 in engines run on petroleum oil and I have run Amsoil in every vehicle I have owned since 1974 and have never had a single oil burner let alone engine failure in a one. I also have done oil analysis on every one of the 6 Dodge Cummins trucks that I ran Amsoil in changing oil at a minimum of 75000 miles per oil change and even then the oil was suitable for continued use according to an independent lab test.

I appreciate the opportunity to correct myself and I realize that a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still. The nice thing about this forum is we can all voice our opinion, agree to disagree, and respect each others point of view.

NavyDood

Very true. Costs can be anywhere from $200,000-$500,000 per oil type to bear the API "certification" with yearly fees to recertify it.

The standard they set is the one that the manufacturers tell them they would like to have. API is an independant company that the manufactures use.

See my above statement.

Welcome to the mighty world of being a business. And actually Amosil does support them. A lot of their oils are API certified now.

If you have done your research you would know that those additives actually better the oil and it's wear capabilites. Not hinder them.