Hey.. been thinking (Yes, believe it or not) <br><br>Got a statistics question for all of you. You all remember &quot;The Bell Curve&quot; and point of deminishing returns?<br><br>I know this is of theory but at what point do modifications on our trucks (both 12v and 24v) start to jeopardize the reliability?<br><br>Injectors, More Boost, Governer kits, chip installs, cams, etc.. at what point do the mods start to decrease the engines/drive trains reliability?<br><br>Just wondering...<br><br>Rich<br><br>

 

[quote author=DieselDaze link=board=8;threadid=7329;start=0#70191 date=1037838491]<br><br>I know this is of theory but at what point do modifications on our trucks (both 12v and 24v) start to jeopardize the reliability?<br><br>Injectors, More Boost, Governer kits, chip installs, cams, etc.. at what point do the mods start to decrease the engines/drive trains reliability?<br><br>Just wondering...<br><br>Rich<br><br><br>[/quote]<br><br><br><br> As soon as you put them on.<br> Example. Installed EZ, trans begin slipping in a couple of months.<br> Installed injectors, begin smoking like a freight train. <br> etc etc. <br> But hey you have to be able to out run, out tow those other brands, right? <br>

 

Ok.. So let me take this a bit farther.<br>Where is the point of daminishing returns for the entire drive train?<br><br>At some point, there must be a combination of modifications that will make more power but start to decrease reliability for all the components from engine, tranny, to diff.<br><br>I also realize there is probably a combination of different modifications that will start to decrease reliability. <br><br>Anyone have any ideas?<br><br>Rich

 

For now I'm very satisfied with the power, I want reliability, durability and longjevity ;D

 

I guy I know ( wont call him a friend or buddy ) tore the U-joints out of a stock HO after owning it for 2 weeks. <br><br>He's not the best driver in the world. [undecided]<br><br>I'm sure this is a point were the mods will start to effect the life span of the engine but not sure when it starts. ??? I would think a timing increase and a mild set of injectors (such as 275's ) would be fine but then anything over that would seem to task the injection pump. Then you have some guys running outrages boost #, that can't be good. <br><br>You also have to remember that most guys will up the horses and then upgrade the drivetrain to take the added horses. So inturn they may be doing no damage at all the the life span of the engine. <br><br>I really don't have a clue but thought I'd add something. [undecided] <br><br>DB

 

Wouldn't you have to assume that any increase in power is going to have a negative impact on longevity??? While the engine will be tough enough you may never notice it but tranny, clutch, dif would wear faster right?? You just don't know how much faster, and it would be proportionate to how much extra power you are making and how often you are making it right??<br><br>Also, wouldn't the load applied be a big factor??<br><br>ie. your &quot;tweaked&quot; CTD makes 400 hp at WOT, empty you stand on it, apply 400 hp to drivetrain, launch truck. now attach 20K trailer, apply WOT and thus 400 hp, considerably more strain right??<br><br>Think of it this way, take a deep breath, tense your muscles and lunge forward running as fast as you can. Your a big tough, powerful guy, show off those muscles!!<br><br>Now, take a breath, tense up and lunge forawrd against the garage wall, or push your wifes Yugo up the driveway.<br>Considerably more muscle strain inflicted right? But both times your body applied maximum power right?????<br><br>Anyone see my point?

 

I too am interested in the reliability thing and I asked a knowledgeable friend of mine the same question. Hope this helps. Here is what he replied to me:<br><br>Joel, ol' buddy, first off, many thanks for the beer. my friends have been enjoying the free beer vending machine.... hope they left me some for this weekend, LOL !<br> bummer about your clutch, I'd hoped it would hold. Guess it's like Ricki's, the two of y'all haul heavy loads. Myself, I had a fueling box (120 HP) hooked up two years ago, without hurting the clutch. Then I put in DD3's, and whoa.... Crisco clutch...<br> How high can you go without worrying about breakage/excessive driveline wear? I'd draw the line at 450-500 HP, you'll be fine. DD3's in combination with your EZ will put you right up at 300 HP, maybe a little more. Add a TST PM3, and you'll need a bigger turbo in order to tow. I'm at 453 HP with DD3 injectors, PM3, and VanAaken(works like an EZ) and a PDR Hx-40 turbo. I can live with it, can tow with it, but not in the upper levels of the TST box, EGT's become a problem in higher levels.<br> I now have over 70,000 miles with this level of power, and yes, I've hauled a few loads. <br> Higher than 450, and still able to use it? Breaking that level involves big $$$$, a sled-pulling style clutch, and twin turbos. Not a reasonable option. Then, breakage becomes a possibility, though a bigger input shaft installed along with the pulling clutch reduces the chances for that.<br> Hope this helps.... Only you can decide how high you want to go...<br> Injectors and a clutch will make you very happy for a long time, I'm sure, without worries of broken parts.

 

I can't give you the direct answer or apex/transition point that you seek. My suggestion is to think in terms of the engine being a balanced package in stock form. Example would be the turbo and exhaust system being designed to handle stock fueling, boost, egt, etc.. One may turn up the fueling and boost a mild amount and still be ok by monitoring the egt and not being abusive to the tranny. However, doing heavy fueling with a super box or big plate, installing faucet size injectors, etc, without changing timing, exhaust system and other items to maintain the functional balance would be asking for trouble. We have to consider the engine and drive train as one complete system and how a performance mod will affect things.<br><br>As for engine life, I've read it is determined by time duration and stress factors. Other words, it will last longer operating at a required 180 hp level than if operating at a required 300 hp level. Few of us operate our engines even at the stock hp level in a sustained manner.<br><br>Jerry

 

Joel, not your clutch to. <br><br>Man that really makes no sense at all. I pushing 300hp and mine still holds. (sorta) :P You and Ricky just put an EZ on and &quot;bam&quot; there goes the clutch. [undecided] It's gotta have something to do with mileage, cause I only got 74K on mine and you guys are over 100K. (if I remember right) We all have hauled some good sized loads and neither of us abuse the truck at all. ???<br><br>This really hs me scratching my head. <br><br>Sorry to hear about the clutch. <br><br>DB

 

I'm kinda going easy on it till June. We'll see how it holds out.

 

Where was the orig poster going with this? Performance mods in themselves shouldn't effect reliability .... longevity yes ... what component(s) is the orig looking to get answers on? Adding 400 HP to your engine doesn't have anything to do with whether or not you get a flat tire (reliabilty) but it does have impact on engine life (longevity) .... anyone see where I'm going with this?

 

<br><br>Just a question was all it was.<br>What I was looking for was more power, but still be able to make 1400 mile round trips at free way speeds with out worry of premature failure because of the performance gains I may have made.<br>In other words, Im trying to find the best of both worlds. I want power to climb hills with the A/C on and not even feel the climb and yet still get 300,000 + miles off the engine and maybe 150,000 mile (or more) off the tranny and drive line.<br>As I mentioned in my original post, this is just a question of theory just to get some ideas and oppinions out there.<br><br>To that, I would like to thank everyone that has posted, this is some great information!<br>Thanks again.<br><br>Rich

 

The actual driver, maintenance, loads, etc etc will have a big impact on this. I know of one person that trashed a Ram with just an EZ and then theres lots of folks putting lots of miles on 400 HP plus and towing and still going strong with over 170K miles.

 

I have had a lot of the same thoughts about this topic. Take a look at my signature and tell me if there are any weak links. I have followed the advise of members and have tried to do what I thought would be the best path toward more power without skimping on anything. The only thing I can think of would be large banjo bolts. I haven't done that yet. Give it to me straight, guys, I can take it!