No more cummins in dodge?
06-24-2004, 10:57 AM
#16
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HEY I WORK FOR FIRESTONE AND FORD HAS BEEN NEGOTIATING AT THE UPPER LEVELS TO GET FIRESTONE TO DO BUSINESS WITH THEM AGAIN BUT SO FAR FIRESTONE HAS REFUSED
06-24-2004, 06:16 PM
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This topic keeps coming up every few months. I can't remember what paper or mag I read it in, but a few years back there was a news conference held with the CEO or some other big wheel with DC. He was asked the question about the Cummins in a Dodge and he said that "DC builds their own fine Diesel engine and they would be changing to one in the near future instead of buying from an outside source." About two months later in the same magazine they covered another conference where the same exec. stated that "he was sorry for the previous statement, that DC had a long and prosperous relationship with Cummins and it would continue into the future." This is about the same time that they extended their contract out to 2007. I imagine he heard a huge outcry from the Dodge dealers and had to do some back peddaling. Lets face it, I love my Dodge, but if it had a gas engine or lesser diesel engine in it I wouldn't be driving it. Cummins has kept Dodge in the 3/4 and 1 ton business. But at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to the correct MB or Detroit Diesel engine, in the Dodge. They are both owned by DC. In fact I'm seriously thing about buying my wife an E-300 for her next vehicle, or maybe a Excursion, or old Suburban. As long as it has a diesel in it.
06-24-2004, 07:28 PM
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Shoot, if Cummins was building soemthing for an '07 Dodge they would have needed to start working on it now. Actually about a year ago. Not that anyone is working on an '07 CTD Ram or anything....
06-24-2004, 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by Nevada
If Dodge swapped the Cummins for a MB diesel, and Ford picked up the Cummins........
If Dodge swapped the Cummins for a MB diesel, and Ford picked up the Cummins........
06-24-2004, 10:33 PM
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I'll tell you this, I love my dodge, and think the quality of the truck is great, but... if they went to a mercedes, and say ford picked up cummins.. Id probably go with a ford next time around.. Cummins is just too legendary.. and I think Dodge would make a HUGE mistake getting rid of them.
Scott
Scott
06-25-2004, 06:04 AM
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Originally posted by Iron Mike
"DC builds their own fine Diesel engine and they would be changing to one in the near future instead of buying from an outside source." About two months later in the same magazine they covered another conference where the same exec. stated that "he was sorry for the previous statement, that DC had a long and prosperous relationship with Cummins and it would continue into the future." Cummins has kept Dodge in the 3/4 and 1 ton business. But at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to the correct MB or Detroit Diesel engine, in the Dodge. They are both owned by DC. In fact I'm seriously thing about buying my wife an E-300 for her next vehicle, or maybe a Excursion, or old Suburban. As long as it has a diesel in it.
"DC builds their own fine Diesel engine and they would be changing to one in the near future instead of buying from an outside source." About two months later in the same magazine they covered another conference where the same exec. stated that "he was sorry for the previous statement, that DC had a long and prosperous relationship with Cummins and it would continue into the future." Cummins has kept Dodge in the 3/4 and 1 ton business. But at the same time I wouldn't be opposed to the correct MB or Detroit Diesel engine, in the Dodge. They are both owned by DC. In fact I'm seriously thing about buying my wife an E-300 for her next vehicle, or maybe a Excursion, or old Suburban. As long as it has a diesel in it.
Lets face it- the new "FERD" looks too BOXXY and CORNERISH to be appealing.
"FERD" trucks are truely being purchased by people who been "trained" to believed by their ancestors that they're the best because they've been around the longest.
"FERD" has never designed something with the mechanic in mind and "Ol Henry" always said "If ya can't beat-em; then buy em!
That's exactly what Ford has done throughout history. The ideas are theirs only because they've BOUGHT them.
A good example is Ford trying to get CUMMINS in their vehicle.
They know they can't compete in the market with their products without having CUMMINS as a CO-PILOT.
Detroit Diesel and Allison are divisions of GMC - not DCX.
06-25-2004, 07:55 AM
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Detroit Diesel is a subsidiary of DC not GM. Allison is a division of GM. Look at these web sites if you don't believe me. 2 things that will remain constant as long as truck sales are high and quality is high. Dodge and Cummins will be working together and Ford and Navistar will be working together. I love my Dodge and Cummins but there are many loyal Ford and Powerstroke fans. I own a couple of Valvoline Instant Oil Changes and we see a ton of Powerstrokes. Their owners swear by them. The powerstroke has an outstanding reputation (not quite as good as Cummins but nevertheless it is great). I bought a Dodge because of the price, the Cummins diesel, looks and last because of the drive. The Ford is not as agile and precise in turns. Let's face it, most of us with Amercian trucks with diesel engines have a few things in common. We know a lot about our trucks, we prefer American beer over Guiness, Heineken and the like. Most of us are white male in our late 30's to mid 50's. Our type of owner isn't going to want a Mercedes engine in a work truck. As long as DC is making money with Cummins and sales are growing Dodge trucks will have Cummins. The sames with Ford. It would be idiotic for them to change to Cummins just because it is available. It would cause market confusion for Ford to switch engines along with extra cost to engineer their trucks to have Cummins.
06-25-2004, 10:11 AM
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Ford's contract w/ Navistar does run through 2012, but Ford dumped them on their butt's on the V-6 diesel motor:
Ford Settle Navistar Suit
I bet that cost Ferd a pretty penny!
So who is going to make their (Ford's) light duty diesel now?
Ford Settle Navistar Suit
Navistar International Corp. said it has reached a settlement with Ford Motor Co. over Ford's decision to cancel a V-6 diesel engine contract. Financial terms were not disclosed. Navistar, in a regulatory filing, said the agreement includes "appropriate recovery of excess costs for a plant Navistar built in Huntsville, Ala., to make the engines. The company had said in late October that Ford wanted to delay or cancel the V-6 engine. Navistar said it would remain Ford's exclusive supplier of V-8 diesel engines through 2012 for use in Ford pick-up trucks, vans and sport utility vehicles.
So who is going to make their (Ford's) light duty diesel now?
06-25-2004, 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Rammer64
DCX does have a DIESEL but it's MERCEDES! and it would be a great loss to the Dodge market to lose Cummins reputation. As for Cummins keeping Dodge in the 3/4 and 1 ton business- I think it helps, but Dodge had established itself in the truck market when the 94 style came out. Body style and innovation opened everybody's eyes to look towards DCX. Cummins I believe was an added bonus to the Dodge truck package. Mercedes has also had a good reputation for fine GERMAN QUALITY, so Dodge will still have a reputable name the run along with it.
Detroit Diesel and Allison are divisions of GMC - not DCX.
DCX does have a DIESEL but it's MERCEDES! and it would be a great loss to the Dodge market to lose Cummins reputation. As for Cummins keeping Dodge in the 3/4 and 1 ton business- I think it helps, but Dodge had established itself in the truck market when the 94 style came out. Body style and innovation opened everybody's eyes to look towards DCX. Cummins I believe was an added bonus to the Dodge truck package. Mercedes has also had a good reputation for fine GERMAN QUALITY, so Dodge will still have a reputable name the run along with it.
Detroit Diesel and Allison are divisions of GMC - not DCX.
EMD engines which also used to be a division of GM is now owned by MTU, another German Engine Company.
06-25-2004, 06:26 PM
#27
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Just reading in a Diesel Progress magazine press release that DC announced it plans to have all engines and transmissions used in every vehicle they sell made by a company they own by 2008. Cummins may be on the way out if DC sticks to their plan.
06-25-2004, 07:24 PM
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Originally posted by Iron Mike
Detroit Diesel used to be owned by GM years ago before it was sold to Penske. Now it is owned by Daimler-Chrysler.
EMD engines which also used to be a division of GM is now owned by MTU, another German Engine Company.
Detroit Diesel used to be owned by GM years ago before it was sold to Penske. Now it is owned by Daimler-Chrysler.
EMD engines which also used to be a division of GM is now owned by MTU, another German Engine Company.
That's a fact I didn't know. I definately didn't mean to undermine your earlier statement.
It's amazing what we can find out in this world of KNOWLEDGEABLE equipment.
06-26-2004, 07:52 AM
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Ran into an old friend of mine yesterday who now works for FreightLiner in North Carolina. He said that DC was pushing Cummins out the door and the MB engine would be in the Ram in 2007. He also said the MB engine will have no problem with the new emission laws and its a better engine. Its lighter, more powerful, simpler design and they can air freight them in from Europe cheaper than they can get a Cummins from Indiana.
Just what I heard! I still love my Cummins
Just what I heard! I still love my Cummins
06-26-2004, 11:04 AM
#30
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As a Freightliner service tech, I can tell you that the MB engine is NOT simpler in design and is NOT a better engine. For awhile, Freightliner was only offering Cummins powered engines in there Freightliner Custome Chassis lines. However, they are now offering the ISC in there M2 business class trucks. So, they are coming back into the market. As for the ISX and its small market of the class 8's, who can blame the owner operator or fleets for not wanting them? Yes, when they are right, they run good. But when they break down, you better have your funds in order. It is a very hard engine to troubleshooot and you pretty much have to have engine balance readings off of the engine to start troublshooting rough running problems. IMO, they really dropped the ball on an oppurtunity to make a good engine great.
Threads like these come up about every month or so. I can tell you this, we will not see a change from DC and Cummins before the year 2007 or beyond. So, pretty much everything you hear until then, about DC and Cummins parting ways is heresay.
Threads like these come up about every month or so. I can tell you this, we will not see a change from DC and Cummins before the year 2007 or beyond. So, pretty much everything you hear until then, about DC and Cummins parting ways is heresay.