He made it 8 miles on 87 OCTANE!!!
01-25-2005, 05:48 PM
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He made it 8 miles on 87 OCTANE!!!
Well, a co-worker at the plant told me he pulled a bone-headed move yesterday afternoon with his 93 first gen. He said he was in a hurry to get to Corpus Christi, but he was extremely low on fuel. So, he whipped into a station in Ingleside Tx and put 10 gals of *fuel* into his old trusty 1st gen. He screwed the cap down on, paid and fired her up and hauled buggy...
He was just into Gregory, Tx (abt 8 miles away) when it suddenly died. He was stunned! his trusty steed had never let him down like this before! He tried restarting but it never would hit.
Suddenly he recalled this horrible mental picture of his finger pushing the 87OCTANE pushbutton at the gas station!!!!
He unscrewed the cap, sniff, sniff...
Yikes!!!
A first gen with probably about a gallon or so of residual diesel mixed with 10 gals of fresh unleaded!!!
He towed it back home where he pumped as much of the contaminated fuel out of the tank as he could (~10-11gals), pulled and replaced the filter and prefilled it with fresh diesel. After priming the pump from the freshly RE-filled tank of DIESEL the old girl fired right up!!!
He said it sorta started a little rough this morning when cold but runs fine after it warmed up a little bit. He's hoping the cold roughness is from the residual unleaded.
Those VE style pumps must be TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH!!!
I did tell him to be sure to sock a bunch of Power Service or Stanadyne to it to help ease the old girl's pain... He said that sounds like a good idea and he would go pick some up from Wally World. (I'll see if he makes it to work in the morning)
He was curious about what likely made it quit after 8 miles of seemingly perfect running on GASOLINE but yet show no catastrophic failure after refilling with the correct fuel?
I told him my guess was the VE pump may have vapor locked on the unleaded from the heat generated inside the pump.
Seriously, what kind of damage should he be expecting to see with this kind of treatment,
especially if the rough cold starting continues after the traces of 87octane are all gone...??
VE pump galling damage?
Injector damage?
Lift pump damage?
Any personal experience with this sorta thing?
Anything specific to check for???
I told him I'd check here on the DTR for any recommendations as he is not a DTR member yet (despite my urging).
Thanks in advance...
Keith
He was just into Gregory, Tx (abt 8 miles away) when it suddenly died. He was stunned! his trusty steed had never let him down like this before! He tried restarting but it never would hit.
Suddenly he recalled this horrible mental picture of his finger pushing the 87OCTANE pushbutton at the gas station!!!!
He unscrewed the cap, sniff, sniff...
Yikes!!!
A first gen with probably about a gallon or so of residual diesel mixed with 10 gals of fresh unleaded!!!
He towed it back home where he pumped as much of the contaminated fuel out of the tank as he could (~10-11gals), pulled and replaced the filter and prefilled it with fresh diesel. After priming the pump from the freshly RE-filled tank of DIESEL the old girl fired right up!!!
He said it sorta started a little rough this morning when cold but runs fine after it warmed up a little bit. He's hoping the cold roughness is from the residual unleaded.
Those VE style pumps must be TOUGH, TOUGH, TOUGH!!!
I did tell him to be sure to sock a bunch of Power Service or Stanadyne to it to help ease the old girl's pain... He said that sounds like a good idea and he would go pick some up from Wally World. (I'll see if he makes it to work in the morning)
He was curious about what likely made it quit after 8 miles of seemingly perfect running on GASOLINE but yet show no catastrophic failure after refilling with the correct fuel?
I told him my guess was the VE pump may have vapor locked on the unleaded from the heat generated inside the pump.
Seriously, what kind of damage should he be expecting to see with this kind of treatment,
especially if the rough cold starting continues after the traces of 87octane are all gone...??
VE pump galling damage?
Injector damage?
Lift pump damage?
Any personal experience with this sorta thing?
Anything specific to check for???I told him I'd check here on the DTR for any recommendations as he is not a DTR member yet (despite my urging).
Thanks in advance...
Keith
01-25-2005, 06:39 PM
#2
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Most times when a diesel engine quits running from gasoline there is little or no damage. The damage comes when there's enough diesel in the mix so that you can drive for several hundred miles. With a high ratio of gas to diesel the reason it won't run is because gas doesn't ignite with compression. People think that because gas is so much more flammable than diesel that it fries the engine, the opposite is true, diesel has more btus than gas. The main damage that comes from running gas is that it is very dry and is similar to running an engine without oil in what it does to the injection pump.
It probably ran as far as it did because of the diesel left in the tank module, filter and lines. That would be a couple quarts, at 16 mpg=8 miles! Seems like most times when people fill up with gas they say, "It didn't even make it ten miles before it died."
I'd recommend he adds a healthly dose of diesel additive with lubricity or a couple cans of 2 cycle engine oil in the next tank.
It probably ran as far as it did because of the diesel left in the tank module, filter and lines. That would be a couple quarts, at 16 mpg=8 miles! Seems like most times when people fill up with gas they say, "It didn't even make it ten miles before it died."
I'd recommend he adds a healthly dose of diesel additive with lubricity or a couple cans of 2 cycle engine oil in the next tank.
01-26-2005, 12:09 PM
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There was a multi-fuel compression engine that ran on gas or diesel. It had a compression ratio of something like 25:1 to get gas to burn in it. I've heard that gas can "blow up" a diesel by igniting in the exhaust system, after not burning in the cylinder, but it's hard to imagine the exhaust hot enough to do so when it's not running because of the gas!!
Isn't the VE pump primarily engine oil lubricated like the P-pump? I realize that all inj. pumps rely on the lubricity of the fuel to some degree, but running gasoline would be much worse on a VP, I imagine.
Isn't the VE pump primarily engine oil lubricated like the P-pump? I realize that all inj. pumps rely on the lubricity of the fuel to some degree, but running gasoline would be much worse on a VP, I imagine.
01-26-2005, 01:07 PM
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I own an oil company with several Kenworth's that pull a 9000gal tank for fuel deliveries. We've blown up a few engines by gasonline vapor inhalation, but gas in the diesel will not hurt much. The time the engine blew, the driver was unloading into an Above Ground tank. The customer had ordered too much fuel and the tank ran over. The PTO pushes almost 200gal a minute, so when the overfill starts spewing, it's like a geyser. The gas spewing from the top of the tank created a perfect explosive vapor that the turbo inhaled. The truck hit 6000rpm before the crank snapped in 4 places!!! Anyway, gasoline vapor is the only thing to worry about, and if it happens, there's nothing you can do to shut her down.
01-26-2005, 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by cditrani
Isn't the VE pump primarily engine oil lubricated like the P-pump? I realize that all inj. pumps rely on the lubricity of the fuel to some degree, but running gasoline would be much worse on a VP, I imagine.
Isn't the VE pump primarily engine oil lubricated like the P-pump? I realize that all inj. pumps rely on the lubricity of the fuel to some degree, but running gasoline would be much worse on a VP, I imagine.
I personally have never put gas in my diesels but have put diesel in my gassers more times than I'll admit.
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01-26-2005, 05:40 PM
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Tool,
It is interesting you said that about PS's as the son of the fellow that "GASSED" up with unleaded, previously did the exact same thing in his old 7.3 PS.
Fortunately they just used the electric lift pump to empty the tank.
Then they just replaced the filter and primed it after refilling the tank with #2D and the PS fired right up, no apparent damage either!
Infidel:
Back in my highschool days, I used to work at a gin/grain co-op for a few summers. They had a Ford front end loader with a 3cyl diesel in it. Some illiterate laborer aparently filled it up with gasoline and ran it until it quit, then walked away(?). It had the words "DIESEL FUEL ONLY" plastered all around the filler neck! (it was the ONLY diesel engined tractor on site!)
When we couldn't get it to start to clean up a pile of spilled grain, the co-op mgr. unscrewed the fuel cap and discovered gasoline in it..
It had blown the head gasket on at least 2 cyls, leaking compression out the side.
It apparently was running for a while like that as there was "sooty" exhaust streaks between the head and block where the gasket let go...
I wonder if the gasoline alone did that trick? Or did the "mad gasser" compound the problem by likely trying to restart the diesel using a bunch of ETHER!!!???
K.
It is interesting you said that about PS's as the son of the fellow that "GASSED" up with unleaded, previously did the exact same thing in his old 7.3 PS.
Fortunately they just used the electric lift pump to empty the tank.
Then they just replaced the filter and primed it after refilling the tank with #2D and the PS fired right up, no apparent damage either!
Infidel:
Back in my highschool days, I used to work at a gin/grain co-op for a few summers. They had a Ford front end loader with a 3cyl diesel in it. Some illiterate laborer aparently filled it up with gasoline and ran it until it quit, then walked away(?). It had the words "DIESEL FUEL ONLY" plastered all around the filler neck! (it was the ONLY diesel engined tractor on site!)
When we couldn't get it to start to clean up a pile of spilled grain, the co-op mgr. unscrewed the fuel cap and discovered gasoline in it..
It had blown the head gasket on at least 2 cyls, leaking compression out the side.
It apparently was running for a while like that as there was "sooty" exhaust streaks between the head and block where the gasket let go...I wonder if the gasoline alone did that trick? Or did the "mad gasser" compound the problem by likely trying to restart the diesel using a bunch of ETHER!!!???
K.
01-26-2005, 10:15 PM
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I was catching a ride with an acquaintance some years back when he stopped and put $5-$10 worth of unleaded in his 6.2L Chevy. He just went in and bought 2 qts of ATF and dumped them in the tank for lubricity and drove on down the road but it sure smoked and ran rough. Truck is still running today although I don't know what engine work in any he's had to do. Knowing him, if it required major work, he'd get a different truck so I'm assuming that he didn't hurt anything too bad.
01-27-2005, 09:34 AM
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What is different about Continental Multi-Fuel engines in the old military 6x6's compared to a "regular" IDI diesel???
I know they would run on several fuels including avgas and JP.
What allows them to inject gasoline and survive?
What is unique about their fuel injection systems? The only thing I remember about the fuel system is they had three HUGE in-line fuel filters mounted on the firewall!!! (Scoop up some dirty diesel from a ditch and pour it in the tank and it'd probably run it!!)
I seem to remember someone saying something about shape of the cylinder's combustion chamber being "spherical"? Dunno...
I just remember having to drive one to&from San Antonio that had the turbo frozen up on it and it was pretty gutless without boost. (Also governed to EXACTLY 55mph!
)
K.
I know they would run on several fuels including avgas and JP.
What allows them to inject gasoline and survive?
What is unique about their fuel injection systems? The only thing I remember about the fuel system is they had three HUGE in-line fuel filters mounted on the firewall!!! (Scoop up some dirty diesel from a ditch and pour it in the tank and it'd probably run it!!)
I seem to remember someone saying something about shape of the cylinder's combustion chamber being "spherical"? Dunno...
I just remember having to drive one to&from San Antonio that had the turbo frozen up on it
and it was pretty gutless without boost. (Also governed to EXACTLY 55mph! )K.
01-27-2005, 12:12 PM
#15
Rattler, did this guy run the 7.3 until it quit or did he realise the error and pump the tank dry before driving the truck???
In any case it's lucky there was no dammage.
A friend of mine accidentaly filled his feshly rebuilt F150 (300 inline 6) with diesel one night in the middle of a snow storm. Drove home like that, didn't know why the truck was running so poorly. SHut it down when he got home, would not restart the next day. The top ring on every piston was busted.
Really too bad, brand new rebuild, not even 5K on it.
A neighbour accidentally filled his old case gase combine full of diesel, ran terrible and quit. Drained the tank and carb, filled with fresh gas and then ran it, smoked like crazy for a while, cleared up after a few tanks.
Another buddy of mine accidentally filled his Suzuki 4 wheeler with diesel.
Said it started to run rough, smoke and backfire. When it quit he sadi the exhaust was glowing red.
In any case it's lucky there was no dammage.
A friend of mine accidentaly filled his feshly rebuilt F150 (300 inline 6) with diesel one night in the middle of a snow storm. Drove home like that, didn't know why the truck was running so poorly. SHut it down when he got home, would not restart the next day. The top ring on every piston was busted.
Really too bad, brand new rebuild, not even 5K on it.
A neighbour accidentally filled his old case gase combine full of diesel, ran terrible and quit. Drained the tank and carb, filled with fresh gas and then ran it, smoked like crazy for a while, cleared up after a few tanks.
Another buddy of mine accidentally filled his Suzuki 4 wheeler with diesel.
Said it started to run rough, smoke and backfire. When it quit he sadi the exhaust was glowing red.