FASS filtration deception.
08-02-2010 | 04:28 PM
#31
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: stratford, ok
I sure appreciate the response!!! Is that right. Hmmm... I wonder why that is. So I should probably go ahead and get a Baldwin 1212? I bought this FASS unit under the false pretense that it was a much better unit for filtration and protecting the fuel injectors in my 2007 Ram 3500. But, the more I read the more post purchase dissonance I am feeling and the angrier I get with the aggressive marketing they publish. Let me ask you another question, what is your opinion on the second filter on a FASS HD? The main filtration filter, it appears to be a hydraulic style filter.
08-02-2010 | 06:41 PM
#33
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,190
Likes: 0
From: Red Deer, Alberta
We definitely understand your area of concern and we have been working on improving the filter situation for about 3 months now. Here is some of the information and knowledge we have about the filters on the Titanium & HD Series.
As we have been discovering in discussions with different filter manufactures there are many variable’s when performing filtration test causing different results even with the same media, as seen in the following paragraph. We have also discovered that the exact same media will have a water separation reading in one filter as to where another filter having the exact same media will not have a reading for water separation. There is an example of this also, so there is some reading in-between the lines required.
The Titanium Series water separator WS-2001 (Fleetguards # FS19768) and the HD Series’ water separator WS-1001 (Fleetguards # FS1023) is a 140 micron stainless/steel serviceable wire mesh. These two elements are made of the exact same material; the only difference is that one has more material than the other. The FS19768 has a water separation efficiency rating of 50% per pass which was tested on 10-26-09, as to where the FS1023 has a 0% efficiency rating tested on 8-10-07. This type of media has water separating capability as they were also used for Caterpillar’s A, B and C model mechanical engines in heavy duty equipment.
Remember they have a 50% rating per pass; this is one reason for the MASS Volume Return which the FASS incorporates. The majority of the fuel that passes through the FASS is polished and returned to the fuel tank to be polished again, now for the 2nd stage of water filtration.
Before the fuel exits back to the fuel tank or passes through to the engine the fuel must pass through the 3 or 10 micron Stratapore element found in our FF-1010 or FF-2003. This element has the same exact water separating capabilities as the very popular Fleetguard FS1000 at a 95% water separation capability. The only difference between the element found in the FF-2003, Titanium Series fuel filter, and the FS1000 is the micron rating. The FS1000 has a drain on the bottom as to where ours doesn’t, we believe the bulk of the water will be captured in the water separator and remaining water will be captured in the fuel filter.
As stated in the opening paragraphs we have been in discussions with Racor, Baldwin, Donaldson just to name a few over the last 3 months and have been discovering ways to improve filtration. The FASS systems for the pick up market leaving our facility now have water separating capabilities ranging from 90 – 95% efficiencies. Here are a few examples of the filters we are using with their water separating efficiencies:
Water Separators:
Titanium Series:
1. FS19594 90%
2. P550550 90%
HD Series:
1. P551001 96%
2. FS1001 95%
We are researching fuel filters to improve water separating capabilities with our 3 micron filter for the HD Series. We had the understanding Fleetguard was using the 3 micron version of the Stratapore element for the Titanium Series fuel filter (#FF-2003), which they are not.
Many customers run the FASS Systems for different reasons, including improving injector issues. These customers have experienced improved injector life both in the pickup & class 8 markets. However there is always room to improve and that is what FASS is known for and committed to doing. We have demonstrated this in the past and will continue to do so; remember some of the noise issues? We now received a few calls to where the customer thought their FASS wasn’t running only to discover it was performing they just had to put their ear next to the bed to hear it running. Now we are releasing the FASS Fuel Systems with superior filtration. We are always researching and discovering ways to improve and build customer loyalty! We accomplish this usually by being proactive but sometimes Murphy’s Law hits us and we have to be re-active and we apologize for this. We appreciate your past and continuing support!
Ashley Barnhill
As we have been discovering in discussions with different filter manufactures there are many variable’s when performing filtration test causing different results even with the same media, as seen in the following paragraph. We have also discovered that the exact same media will have a water separation reading in one filter as to where another filter having the exact same media will not have a reading for water separation. There is an example of this also, so there is some reading in-between the lines required.
The Titanium Series water separator WS-2001 (Fleetguards # FS19768) and the HD Series’ water separator WS-1001 (Fleetguards # FS1023) is a 140 micron stainless/steel serviceable wire mesh. These two elements are made of the exact same material; the only difference is that one has more material than the other. The FS19768 has a water separation efficiency rating of 50% per pass which was tested on 10-26-09, as to where the FS1023 has a 0% efficiency rating tested on 8-10-07. This type of media has water separating capability as they were also used for Caterpillar’s A, B and C model mechanical engines in heavy duty equipment.
Remember they have a 50% rating per pass; this is one reason for the MASS Volume Return which the FASS incorporates. The majority of the fuel that passes through the FASS is polished and returned to the fuel tank to be polished again, now for the 2nd stage of water filtration.
Before the fuel exits back to the fuel tank or passes through to the engine the fuel must pass through the 3 or 10 micron Stratapore element found in our FF-1010 or FF-2003. This element has the same exact water separating capabilities as the very popular Fleetguard FS1000 at a 95% water separation capability. The only difference between the element found in the FF-2003, Titanium Series fuel filter, and the FS1000 is the micron rating. The FS1000 has a drain on the bottom as to where ours doesn’t, we believe the bulk of the water will be captured in the water separator and remaining water will be captured in the fuel filter.
As stated in the opening paragraphs we have been in discussions with Racor, Baldwin, Donaldson just to name a few over the last 3 months and have been discovering ways to improve filtration. The FASS systems for the pick up market leaving our facility now have water separating capabilities ranging from 90 – 95% efficiencies. Here are a few examples of the filters we are using with their water separating efficiencies:
Water Separators:
Titanium Series:
1. FS19594 90%
2. P550550 90%
HD Series:
1. P551001 96%
2. FS1001 95%
We are researching fuel filters to improve water separating capabilities with our 3 micron filter for the HD Series. We had the understanding Fleetguard was using the 3 micron version of the Stratapore element for the Titanium Series fuel filter (#FF-2003), which they are not.
Many customers run the FASS Systems for different reasons, including improving injector issues. These customers have experienced improved injector life both in the pickup & class 8 markets. However there is always room to improve and that is what FASS is known for and committed to doing. We have demonstrated this in the past and will continue to do so; remember some of the noise issues? We now received a few calls to where the customer thought their FASS wasn’t running only to discover it was performing they just had to put their ear next to the bed to hear it running. Now we are releasing the FASS Fuel Systems with superior filtration. We are always researching and discovering ways to improve and build customer loyalty! We accomplish this usually by being proactive but sometimes Murphy’s Law hits us and we have to be re-active and we apologize for this. We appreciate your past and continuing support!
Ashley Barnhill
08-02-2010 | 07:01 PM
#34
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 4
From: Kuna, Idaho
As far as the final filtration 10um is the best I can find, so you better put your stock filter back in.
I though the 95/150 was a 95GPH pump w/ 150 filters?
08-02-2010 | 07:41 PM
#35
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 745
Likes: 2
From: SE PA
I installed the Baldwin 1212 the other day. Fuel pressure rose about 1 or 2 psi.... now 17+
kubotam125x,
Is that diagram from FASS? Does it tell you the water separator performance? They could call an empty can a water sep if they wanted to. I talked to Fleetguard myself. They told me the FS 1023 was not designed to be a water separator. That is the filter in that diagram. So no it's not obsolete, it just shows the flow and leads you to believe something good is going on there.
kubotam125x,
Is that diagram from FASS? Does it tell you the water separator performance? They could call an empty can a water sep if they wanted to. I talked to Fleetguard myself. They told me the FS 1023 was not designed to be a water separator. That is the filter in that diagram. So no it's not obsolete, it just shows the flow and leads you to believe something good is going on there.
08-02-2010 | 07:51 PM
#36
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: stratford, ok
Its a good unit, 3um absolute, 1um at 95%. My only beef is thats a multipass rating, since its a hydraulic filter, fuel filters should be singlepass.
A Luberfiner LFF9594 is a better f/w sep, not as good as stock but there don't appear to be any in that thread pitch.
As far as the final filtration 10um is the best I can find, so you better put your stock filter back in.
I though the 95/150 was a 95GPH pump w/ 150 filters?
A Luberfiner LFF9594 is a better f/w sep, not as good as stock but there don't appear to be any in that thread pitch.
As far as the final filtration 10um is the best I can find, so you better put your stock filter back in.
I though the 95/150 was a 95GPH pump w/ 150 filters?
I installed the Baldwin 1212 the other day. Fuel pressure rose about 1 or 2 psi.... now 17+
kubotam125x,
Is that diagram from FASS? Does it tell you the water separator performance? They could call an empty can a water sep if they wanted to. I talked to Fleetguard myself. They told me the FS 1023 was not designed to be a water separator. That is the filter in that diagram. So no it's not obsolete, it just shows the flow and leads you to believe something good is going on there.
kubotam125x,
Is that diagram from FASS? Does it tell you the water separator performance? They could call an empty can a water sep if they wanted to. I talked to Fleetguard myself. They told me the FS 1023 was not designed to be a water separator. That is the filter in that diagram. So no it's not obsolete, it just shows the flow and leads you to believe something good is going on there.
09-17-2010 | 09:36 AM
#38
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Alberta, Canada
So, what is the current sensible thing to do with my FASS, I did't quite make out from above if I can use better filters on the unit, or what to do make it do what I thought it was suppose to do, can I route it to the original filter, will the original filter take the flow?
09-17-2010 | 10:59 AM
#39
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 958
Likes: 1
From: Alberta
WOW is all I have to say.
So your product does or does not do what it is advertised to do?
scenerio numbers may not be exact.
When a guy fuels his truck up from empty then starts it he is only getting a 50% rating on his filtered fuel untill 28 minutes later when the tank would have had a full cycle x2 (based on perfect conditions). 150gph equals 2.5 gal/min 35 gal/fuel x 2. Under ideal conditions where one gal is removed and one gallon is replaced.
My FASS 95GPH has been back to you guys to get fixed when it died and you can hear it above my engine noise. What can I do to fix this issue or is this a live with it situation?
So your product does or does not do what it is advertised to do?
scenerio numbers may not be exact.
When a guy fuels his truck up from empty then starts it he is only getting a 50% rating on his filtered fuel untill 28 minutes later when the tank would have had a full cycle x2 (based on perfect conditions). 150gph equals 2.5 gal/min 35 gal/fuel x 2. Under ideal conditions where one gal is removed and one gallon is replaced.
My FASS 95GPH has been back to you guys to get fixed when it died and you can hear it above my engine noise. What can I do to fix this issue or is this a live with it situation?
09-18-2010 | 12:11 PM
#40
Registered User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 616
Likes: 0
From: B.C. Canada
Been off site for too long. This FASS filter issue is unbelievable! Have always run my 150/95 (6 yrs) to the factory filter. So is there a replacement true water separator for the 150 series. Also need to buy a new case of stock fuel filters. What do you guys recommend.
09-23-2010 | 09:53 PM
#42
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
From: Alberta, Canada
So am I undestanding that they(Baldwin BF1212 or Fleetguard FS1000) have the same thread and diameter(will screw onto the FASS body), and do the job in compliance or better then required specs?
09-27-2010 | 09:02 AM
#43
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
Another strange thing on both the FASS and AirDog is the GPH rating on the 'water separating' filters per the Common Fuel Filter Information sticky is only about 20 GPH.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...a-t273129.html
If that data is correct, it appears both didn't do their homework on what filters should be used.
https://www.dieseltruckresource.com/...a-t273129.html
If that data is correct, it appears both didn't do their homework on what filters should be used.
09-27-2010 | 02:02 PM
#44
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,184
Likes: 0
From: Dallas area
I can't believe this hasn't seen more hits already... A bit unimpressed myself... From the quick read of this thread that I have done... The FASS 'water separator' is not a water separator AT ALL... Gravity is great until you start the truck again...
I have always had this suspicion as I would regularly check the stock system and often find a few drops of water in a clear glass.. Only once did I ever find a drop in the FASS screen (can't call it a separator any more)... Now I am also reading that the flow ratings of these filters were completely ignored.. I mean completely... 20gph?? really I have a 220GPH (as advertised anyway) pump... What kind of performance am I really getting here?
Not often one to go off on a rant, but this is crap... I have well over a thousand wrapped up in FASS products for this truck.. (started with a 150/150 now 'upgraded' to a 220/150 for the P7100) and thought I was getting this great protection for my money in that motor... Obviously I was had...
If FASS had any kind of intelligence, they would be getting their previous customers correct filters and a big apology for being ignorant of their own product!
I have always had this suspicion as I would regularly check the stock system and often find a few drops of water in a clear glass.. Only once did I ever find a drop in the FASS screen (can't call it a separator any more)... Now I am also reading that the flow ratings of these filters were completely ignored.. I mean completely... 20gph?? really I have a 220GPH (as advertised anyway) pump... What kind of performance am I really getting here?
Not often one to go off on a rant, but this is crap... I have well over a thousand wrapped up in FASS products for this truck.. (started with a 150/150 now 'upgraded' to a 220/150 for the P7100) and thought I was getting this great protection for my money in that motor... Obviously I was had...
If FASS had any kind of intelligence, they would be getting their previous customers correct filters and a big apology for being ignorant of their own product!
09-27-2010 | 10:45 PM
#45
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: stratford, ok
I can't believe this hasn't seen more hits already... A bit unimpressed myself... From the quick read of this thread that I have done... The FASS 'water separator' is not a water separator AT ALL... Gravity is great until you start the truck again...
I have always had this suspicion as I would regularly check the stock system and often find a few drops of water in a clear glass.. Only once did I ever find a drop in the FASS screen (can't call it a separator any more)... Now I am also reading that the flow ratings of these filters were completely ignored.. I mean completely... 20gph?? really I have a 220GPH (as advertised anyway) pump... What kind of performance am I really getting here?
Not often one to go off on a rant, but this is crap... I have well over a thousand wrapped up in FASS products for this truck.. (started with a 150/150 now 'upgraded' to a 220/150 for the P7100) and thought I was getting this great protection for my money in that motor... Obviously I was had...
If FASS had any kind of intelligence, they would be getting their previous customers correct filters and a big apology for being ignorant of their own product!
I have always had this suspicion as I would regularly check the stock system and often find a few drops of water in a clear glass.. Only once did I ever find a drop in the FASS screen (can't call it a separator any more)... Now I am also reading that the flow ratings of these filters were completely ignored.. I mean completely... 20gph?? really I have a 220GPH (as advertised anyway) pump... What kind of performance am I really getting here?
Not often one to go off on a rant, but this is crap... I have well over a thousand wrapped up in FASS products for this truck.. (started with a 150/150 now 'upgraded' to a 220/150 for the P7100) and thought I was getting this great protection for my money in that motor... Obviously I was had...
If FASS had any kind of intelligence, they would be getting their previous customers correct filters and a big apology for being ignorant of their own product!
I had problems a while back on my old truck when the DDRP failed. I had forgot to put the VIN number of the truck on the warranty information paperwork you have to send in within 30 days, so they said I was SOL. I went on a tirade about it on another forum and after enough people replied to it and it was getting some attention when finally some fass representative said send it in. Lousy customer service if you ask me.