udflyer98

For the purpose of magazine testing, it's far easier to grab a truck off the lot and hook up a cargo trailer than to pay to have a 5th wheel or GN hitch put in the bed.

I thought it was a neat idea using 81% GCWR as a benchmark. It levels out any differences caused by gear ratios or tire sizes. I wouldn't mind seeing the same test with a manual transmission even though I know my Duramax would be last up the hill with its anemic 520 in the torque column.

Hannibal

I suppose for magazine testing that would be the way to go but, if you found yourself with a 9k lb trailer to tow in the mountains and had no truck, would you want to know how each truck towed that 9k lb trailer or, how each truck towed that 9k lb trailer with 4k lbs of bricks in the bed of one, 2k lbs in the other and the third empty? That doesn't make any sense to the guy who needs a truck to tow a 9k lb trailer. It would only make sense to a guy who needs to tow a 9k lb trailer and carry 4k lbs in the bed of the truck. Then only one truck would cut it.
Comparing my truck to a duplicate Cummins powered 2500 SLT QC LB auto/3.73 to tow our 10,040 lb 5th wheel, would it be a fair comparison to tow it empty with my Hemi Ram and then tow it loaded down with 4k lbs to reflect the difference in GCWR of the two trucks? Heck no. That would be handicapping my Hemi Ram to manufacture a comparable outcome when all we'd be interested in is how the two trucks compare towing a 10,040 lb 5th wheel. I've already done the test with an '03 SO Cummins powered duplicate.
What the test told me is, one truck tows/carries 13k lbs faster than a truck towing/carrying 9k lbs but slower than another truck towing/carrying 11k lbs. I fail to see how that's a level playing field or how that would help a guy choose a truck to tow his 9k lb empty cargo trailer. Load the trailer down to 12k lbs and hook it to all three trucks. Use whatever engine, tranny, gear ratio or intererior will give the best towing bone stock offered by each manufacturer. That would be a fair competition without handicaps. That's what the buyer of a new truck would want to know. No one has ever gone out to buy a new truck and said, well, if I buy this truck, I'll be carrying 4k lbs of bricks in the bed or, that truck I'll carry 2k lbs of bricks in the bed just to be fair. Never happens.

LBZ Power

Han,
I think your missing the point. They leveled the field by using 81% of each individual trucks GVCWR. It was really the only way to do it because each truck had a different GVCWR. This way they are attempting to request the same amount of work or effort from all three vehicles by requesting them to pull 81% of that GVCWR. Also there are Dmax's trurning 400,000 plus and still running. They haven't been around long enough to have a million miles yet. I would hardly say because a dodge turned a million miles, that it's clearly better. Both trucks have their fair share of problems and lemons. Who gets a million miles out of them is first determined by whether or not you got a Monday/Friday truck, then secondly what the owner does to it, how he uses it and how he maintains it.

HotRodK

I know they use the truck sent by the manufacturers, but couldnt they have at least gotten some 4.10s in the Dodge? And a Quad Cab w/ 8' bed?? Lets TRY to keep an even playing field.

LBZ Power, your right, looks are subjective. Thats why I put my OPINION.
A good friend of mine has had his LBZ 2500 for about 6 months, and said the fuel mileage is HORRIBLE. Thats why I didnt even look in that direction. I want the best mileage available.

LBZ Power

Hotrod,
you won't know what the mileage is till you are behind the wheel, different driving styles. I get 13.5-14.5 around town with 3500 crewcab, which I think is pretty good. Read 3rd generation forums here, there is a big discrepency on mpg. It's either type of fuel, maybe winter mix left over, driving style, or the individual truck. Just because one friend has a dodge, ford, or chevy that gets poorer mileage doesn't mean they all do.

Hannibal

I understand the point but it's usefulness is missing. If Fred and Edna just bought a 14k lb GVWR 5th wheel and needed a truck to pull it, how is this test useful? Fred would want to know how each truck towed the same weight, not how each truck towed the same weight with added weight to one truck or the other or with a taller gear ratio because the other two manufacturers don't offer a lower ratio. Just bring out the best each manufacturer has to offer and put them to the test. Then Fred and Edna can choose which truck to pull their new 5th wheel and carry their two weenie dogs.
Restricting the trucks to a certain gear ratio or adding weight to one or two of the trucks isn't leveling the playing field. It's handicapping the lesser capable trucks to manufacture an outcome. Adding 4k lbs to all three trucks towing a 9k lb trailer up the same grade would be a level playing field. A true test of which truck is more capable. Even that won't tell how many times it'll pull the grade.
Of course proper maintenance is needed and abuse needs to be avoided. Or should we abuse one and neglect it's maintenance to level the playing field for longevity?

trik396

I wonder how the Dodge would do with a modded trans. I mean, if that's what their saying is it's weak point, throw in a billet convertor and valve body and give her hell. THEN I'd like to see the final pulling times...

blord

No, it is handicapping the more capable trucks and bringing them down the least capable trucks GCWR level (Dodge). The Chevy carried 3700# extra and the Ford carried 2440# extra weight. Without that weight they would have gone up the hill faster and beaten the Dodge by a bigger margin.

I think it is unfair that the Ford ran 4.30 gears and the other 2 trucks ran 3.73s. But the Chevy still blew the doors off the Dodge with the same gearing.

The weakness was the number of gears available not whether it would break!

torquefan

I agree. They are all 1 ton trucks, and are compared as such by prospective buyers, so they should be tested as such.

AAmeeting

I love my cummins for different reasons than speed but, that Duramax is climbing the preverbal hill pretty fast. Give it a few more years. If they made a 4x4 with a straight axel they would capture more of the market, too I think. This thread might be doomed.............

Begle1

The Duramax is a more powerful engine than the Cummins, there are no major reliability issues with either one, and the Duramax is coupled with a better transmission. We could all not be like the Ford people and try not to argue against numbers, but that would be non-hypocritical...

But the Duramax is still an Isuzu-designed aluminum-headed silicon-filled water-cooled turd-sounding piece of jelk.

staarma

Sorry, I'm not interested in biased propoganda. I've owned all three and my current truck is the one that pulls the hardest, runs the hardest and gets the best mileage. I own my truck and can afford to buy a new one for cash so why wouldn't I buy the best one?????? Now, I haven't owned an LBZ but my cousin just bought one and if he could keep it out of the shop long enough to see how it works, I'll let you know about that. Everytime I call him he says "darn I wish I hadn't gotten rid of my Dodge."

ptgarcia

Those head-to-head magazine articles are crap. There is always such a discrepancy in vehicle components (tranny, axle ratio, 4x2 vs. 4x4, etc.) that the results are nearly meaningless. And of course there is that almighty advertiser that can't be p!ssed off. And the comfort/appearance categories are so subjective I don't even read them.

As far as I'm concerned, I got the best truck out there...for me. I have the best looking truck with the most interior space, a quiet and comfortable cab, a truck thats a breeze to work on (there is tons of room under that hood with only one bank of cylinders), a truck that will pull anything the others will (albeit a couple seconds slower up that big hill), and a truck the old lady can drive with ease, and when she takes that 1000 mile road trip with her mother and 88 yr old grandmother I know it will get them there safe and without incident. Ford and Chevy can't touch that.