Edmunds Diesel Shoot Out
06-09-2006, 10:38 AM
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Edmunds Diesel Shoot Out
If anyone is interested,Edmunds did the big three diesel test. Here is a link. I like the Mega cab wish they would put a long bed on that.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115662
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115662
06-09-2006, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by LBZ Power
If anyone is interested,Edmunds did the big three diesel test. Here is a link. I like the Mega cab wish they would put a long bed on that.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115662
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115662
06-09-2006, 11:15 AM
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Pant,
Why would you say that. Its a truck shoot out, I'm not wooing and I didn't pick the winner. I put it under the general diesel topic where people ask questions about chevy and ford diesels. It's general interest stuff isn't it. If you want I'll delete the link.
Why would you say that. Its a truck shoot out, I'm not wooing and I didn't pick the winner. I put it under the general diesel topic where people ask questions about chevy and ford diesels. It's general interest stuff isn't it. If you want I'll delete the link.
06-09-2006, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by LBZ Power
Pant,
Why would you say that. Its a truck shoot out, I'm not wooing and I didn't pick the winner. I put it under the general diesel topic where people ask questions about chevy and ford diesels. It's general interest stuff isn't it. If you want I'll delete the link.
Why would you say that. Its a truck shoot out, I'm not wooing and I didn't pick the winner. I put it under the general diesel topic where people ask questions about chevy and ford diesels. It's general interest stuff isn't it. If you want I'll delete the link.
. I just thought it ironic you would post an article that says chevy is the best when you own the truck they are talking about. Nothing against you, sorry if it was taken that way. I just thought it was funny.It was a good article, I kinda think they should've used trucks closer to the same weight and it would have been better. I like the dmax's. It's the first diesel I ever drove.
Like I said godd article, should've been better. Don't delete it, as you said it is in general diesel and others may benefit from it.
I need to learn to keep my mouth shut
06-09-2006, 12:12 PM
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Pant,
no problem I figured someone would say something about owning the GMC. I buy what fits the need at the time, and what my wife says she likes. Other then that I really don't care who makes it.
no problem I figured someone would say something about owning the GMC. I buy what fits the need at the time, and what my wife says she likes. Other then that I really don't care who makes it.
06-09-2006, 12:30 PM
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I've read it... I believe it. D-max is a nice truck.... right up until your third intermediate steering shaft. Between my 99 and 04 I had a total of 5 replaced steering shafts in about 80kmi of the two trucks. Nevermind the other problems I had. I was in the lot ready to buy my fifth Chevy with the new LBZ and just couldn't do it. I loved how the truck felt and the LBZ has tons of power. But a friend of mine had one he let me test drive that had 5,000 miles on it when I drove it and it already had the steering shaft clunk. I just couldn't talk myself into being in that position again. When the dealer knows your name and how you like your coffee, it's not necessarily a good thing.
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06-09-2006, 01:58 PM
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I'm just saying that because look at the top of the page and you'll see a big chevy advertisement!!
Also doesn't dodge make a regular quad cab dually with an 8ft bed? And to me it just seemed like the whole article was biased to chevy's. they are all nice trucks and they all have their share of problems, what I don't understand is how the ford was better than the dodge.
Also doesn't dodge make a regular quad cab dually with an 8ft bed? And to me it just seemed like the whole article was biased to chevy's. they are all nice trucks and they all have their share of problems, what I don't understand is how the ford was better than the dodge.
06-09-2006, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by apwatson50
...what I don't understand is how the ford was better than the dodge.
I really think it comes down to the tranny - for people who don't drive trucks everyday (like the testers at Edmunds) the Ford and Chevy with their 5 and 6 spd auto trannies probably did 'feel' better when towing. And, like the article said, the Dodge they tested was a MegaCab with no long bed, etc.
Hopefully next year with a new tranny and new engine the Dodge will fare better - but then again who knows - truck tests (and opinions) are like you know whats - everyone has one.
06-09-2006, 03:09 PM
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First off, I think competition is good for everyone. In the end we all benefit when automotive manufactures address shortcomings unveiled during competition and through buyer preferences.
Overall, I think it was a pretty fair comparison for what THEY were attempting to measure (Strongman competition). Especially since both the Chevy and Ford had to take on additional ballast loaded on to the trailer to reach 81% GCWR and the Dodge did not. However, it would have been a better apples-to-apples comparison had they all used manual transmissions and with similiar rear end ratio's to test brute engine pulling power.
All that aside, THEIR big emphasis of who can get to the top of the hill first, WOULD NOT BE MY FIRST PRIORITY in picking a new tow vehicle. My first priority would be reliability . I want to know that when I venture out on a long road trip with several thousand miles already on my rig, and towing heavy, that I have the best shot at arriving at my destination without any roadside breakdowns and will arrive on time. I think the Cummins straight six with 33% fewer components gives the Dodge a very important edge in that category. A more meaningful test to me would be a 100,000 mile endurance tow test towing 10k lbs. I would bet that the Cummins with its more simplistic 6 cylinder/6 injector technology along with its more proven engine would clean up! Injectors seem to be the Achilles heel in HPCR Turbo Diesel engines and the more injectors you have the greater likelihood of one going bad and that is not a good thing when towing or anytime!
Just as the Strong Man competitions go...no one cares if the strongest man would finish poorly in a marathon, its all done for the glory of the moment and for very specific bragging rights. All things considered and especially for the long haul, I'll stick with my Cummins powered Dodge! After all, there are more than one "million mile Cummins" powered Dodges still running around.
However, once Dodge releases their 6 speed auto the race to the top of that hill just might tighten up a bit. Also with the added benefit of a factory available exhaust brake they might be the first to stop that load as well!
Overall, I think it was a pretty fair comparison for what THEY were attempting to measure (Strongman competition). Especially since both the Chevy and Ford had to take on additional ballast loaded on to the trailer to reach 81% GCWR and the Dodge did not. However, it would have been a better apples-to-apples comparison had they all used manual transmissions and with similiar rear end ratio's to test brute engine pulling power.
All that aside, THEIR big emphasis of who can get to the top of the hill first, WOULD NOT BE MY FIRST PRIORITY in picking a new tow vehicle. My first priority would be reliability . I want to know that when I venture out on a long road trip with several thousand miles already on my rig, and towing heavy, that I have the best shot at arriving at my destination without any roadside breakdowns and will arrive on time. I think the Cummins straight six with 33% fewer components gives the Dodge a very important edge in that category. A more meaningful test to me would be a 100,000 mile endurance tow test towing 10k lbs. I would bet that the Cummins with its more simplistic 6 cylinder/6 injector technology along with its more proven engine would clean up! Injectors seem to be the Achilles heel in HPCR Turbo Diesel engines and the more injectors you have the greater likelihood of one going bad and that is not a good thing when towing or anytime!
Just as the Strong Man competitions go...no one cares if the strongest man would finish poorly in a marathon, its all done for the glory of the moment and for very specific bragging rights. All things considered and especially for the long haul, I'll stick with my Cummins powered Dodge! After all, there are more than one "million mile Cummins" powered Dodges still running around.
However, once Dodge releases their 6 speed auto the race to the top of that hill just might tighten up a bit. Also with the added benefit of a factory available exhaust brake they might be the first to stop that load as well!
06-09-2006, 03:47 PM
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I thought it was a pretty good article and their method of handicapping to make things relatively equal was good. I would really like to see a Quad cab with 4:10s in the test however. Even though that would have dropped the towed weight of the other 2 I think it would pull better than the Ford that was running 4:30s.
They also mentioned in several places that with the short bed it can't tow a 5ver. That is what sliding hitches are for. Also they pointed out the power window on the Ford as being a big thing and said it isn't available on the Ram. Maybe not on a Mega but I have it on my quad cab.
Found it interesting that they are testing for maximum capability and yet they chose the more convienent automatic transmission. Think maybe they couldn't test with manuals because Chevy doesn't have one?
But I actually enjoyed the article and think it is perfectly valid
They also mentioned in several places that with the short bed it can't tow a 5ver. That is what sliding hitches are for. Also they pointed out the power window on the Ford as being a big thing and said it isn't available on the Ram. Maybe not on a Mega but I have it on my quad cab.
Found it interesting that they are testing for maximum capability and yet they chose the more convienent automatic transmission. Think maybe they couldn't test with manuals because Chevy doesn't have one?
But I actually enjoyed the article and think it is perfectly valid
06-10-2006, 08:55 AM
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And these are just magaxine OPINIONS. Just like all of us have. With the exception of the engine output and Allison tranny, there is nothing about the Duramax that I consider "better" over the Ram. I was happy to sacrifice a few horsepower/torque bone stock, that can easily be gained with a programmer, and be comfortable with the rest of the vehicle.
Again, just one mans opinion.
Again, just one mans opinion.
06-10-2006, 10:23 AM
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Well the whole thing is flawed. If they tested all trucks at 81% GCVW , The Ford would be hauling an extra 1600 lbs since its payload is substancialy better. The Ford also has alot more rear gear. They ought to order up some equal trucks one of these days. 
06-10-2006, 06:11 PM
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Hotrod
Interior, ride quality and looks are subjective. Braking distance, pulling power, fuel economy and acceleration are all data numbers, they shouldn't have anything to do with the magazines opinions they should be based on actual tests. Regardless the video link allows people to actually see the interiors and other stuff instead of having to drive to each individual dealer. Each truck has it's own place in the market. The only right decision on which truck is for you, is the one that fits your needs the best. Power, economy and interior size doesn't mean a whole lot if it's not what your looking for or you don't like the vehicle.
Interior, ride quality and looks are subjective. Braking distance, pulling power, fuel economy and acceleration are all data numbers, they shouldn't have anything to do with the magazines opinions they should be based on actual tests. Regardless the video link allows people to actually see the interiors and other stuff instead of having to drive to each individual dealer. Each truck has it's own place in the market. The only right decision on which truck is for you, is the one that fits your needs the best. Power, economy and interior size doesn't mean a whole lot if it's not what your looking for or you don't like the vehicle.
06-10-2006, 06:20 PM
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I didn't see anywhere in the article that proved one truck was better than the other. Just that the Chevy was faster up the hill. Why an 8600 lb trailer for 1-ton duallies? Why not a 15k lb goose-neck? I tow more than 8600 with MY truck. The Ford's interior looked nauseating. I like the Chevy's interior and I'm sure the Dmax/Allison performs like a champ. But I'd rather have a Dodge with a Hemi than a Ford with a Powerstroke. No, really, I would.
For a real unbiased hill test, just pick out a trailer, go get three 3/4 or 1-tons equipped with their highest tow ratings, hook up the trailer and head on up the hill. Why the handicaps? Why restrict one to a certain gear ratio because the other doesn't offer other ratios? And why throw a bunch of blocks in one to weight it down? If the task is to tow a 9k lb trailer, THAT's what should be the goal, not handicapping the competition. With only 9k lbs, I'd participate in the competition with my gasser. I do it quite often.
So the GM went faster up the hill one time. The Ford actually made it up the hill one time. I've read of more than one Dodge Cummins that was still towing over 9k lbs with over a million miles on the odometer. Now which truck is better?
For a real unbiased hill test, just pick out a trailer, go get three 3/4 or 1-tons equipped with their highest tow ratings, hook up the trailer and head on up the hill. Why the handicaps? Why restrict one to a certain gear ratio because the other doesn't offer other ratios? And why throw a bunch of blocks in one to weight it down? If the task is to tow a 9k lb trailer, THAT's what should be the goal, not handicapping the competition. With only 9k lbs, I'd participate in the competition with my gasser. I do it quite often.
So the GM went faster up the hill one time. The Ford actually made it up the hill one time. I've read of more than one Dodge Cummins that was still towing over 9k lbs with over a million miles on the odometer. Now which truck is better?