"The Honeywell Consumer Products Group warranty policy also protects the
consumer if it is determined that a FRAM filter is responsible for damage
to an engine due to defects in design or workmanship... "

Infidel, that might be true.. But like I really want to haggle with Fram how their cheapie filter wiped out my +200kmile CTD engine...(meanwhile I'm out a truck)
They may be the best at honoring replacments, but I don't even want to go there in the first place. I'd rather just use good quality to begin with.

Try this: Cut open one of your USED Fleetguard filters (after you've drained it for a MONTH ) and then go pick up a fram filter and carefully cut it open...(it's tough to do without getting metal chips in the filters)
Compare the quality of internal construction..
Seeing is believing... The microglas filter element was well built.

BTW, I also cut open a used MOPAR labeled filter for my '97 CTD, and it was a cellulose filter not microglas like the white fleetguard I cut open. .

K.

 

Oil quickly turning dark is not proof the oil is doing a good job of cleaning the engine, it is proof of a "dirty" engine.

When the oil remains clear over a period of time, it is a good indication the engine is clean-running, with minimal blow-by past the compression rings.

Takes blow-by, and rich-burn, to get the soot into the crankcase and into the oil.

Soot will gravitate to anything within it's enviroment - fuel, oil, water, exhaust pipes\stacks, the paint job on your truck.

We have an advantage over gasoline engines, because Diesel Fuel is a light oil - the upper cylinders, rings and valves are lubricated at each combustion cycle.

Combustion cycle being intake, compression\injection, combustion\ power, exhaust in a 4-stroke engine.

Gasoline, because it is drawn into the cylinder with the intake air charge, washes any residual lubrication off the cylinders on the intake stroke and the compression stroke, which reduces piston ring sealing, promotes piston\ring\cylinder wall friction, increases wear, with increased blow-by.

Keep the smoke in the cylinder, where it belongs, you get more power, cleaner engine, better fuel mileage, and cleaner truck.

Run a clear oil for a good indication of how well your engine is performing - the Cummins 5.9 is a "clean" engine.

 

Here's the quote from the Mopar site that started it all and made people aware of the poor quality of Frams. In the Mopar tech bulletin, Fram kinda reminds me of GM. We'll make a piece of crap, find out what's wrong after it's been in the field (hopefully at the customer's expense) and fix it. In GM's case, then they discontinue it! A company with that philosophy doesn't deserve my business.


Fram Extra Guard
Years ago Fram was a quality filter manufacturer. Now their standard filter (the radioactive-orange cans) is one of the worst out there. It features cardboard end caps for the filter element that are glued in place. The rubber anti-drainback valve seals against the cardboard and frequently leaks, causing dirty oil to drain back into the pan. The bypass valves are plastic and are sometimes not molded correctly, which allows them to leak all the time. The stamped-metal threaded end is weakly constructed and it has smaller and fewer oil inlet holes, which may restrict flow. I had one of these filters fail in my previous car. The filter element collapsed and bits of filter and glue were circuilating through my system. The oil passge to the head became blocked and the head got so hot from oil starvation that it actually melted the vacuum lines connected to it as well as the wires near it.

I had a similar experience years ago. At the time, I built engines for a late model stock car. I was able to use a Dodge 5.9 Magnum before the Chevy guys were legal to use the Vortec 5.7. The owner insisted on using a remote filter with the Chevy two quart canister. He bought the filters and bought Frams. At the time, I didn't know about the quality decline and problems so I said nothing. We used 40 wt Redline racing oil and the engine ran about #60 ~ #70 lbs pressure. The filter collapsed internally and severely restricted oil to the engine. The driver caught it, and we got the car back to the pits and determined it was the filter. I had them change to NAPA Gold after that, but lost the battle to can the remote system entirely. We got about a hundred laps on the motor after that incident and it blew. That incident gave me the utmost admiration for Redline oil and total distain for Frams.

 

Oilguy, infidel, russ300h-

Thanks for the replies on the Fram filters. I was just looking for something other than "hear-say". I guess I'll get my next filter at the Napa shop or online at Geno's.

 

Check http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/images/lucas/lucas.htm for more info on oil additives.

For the record, Mine gets Valvoline Premium Blue, no additives, Fleetguard Stratopore filters.

 

Great...I just put a Fram in my truck. That'll get the bum's rush today or tomorrow. Won't do that again...
- Chris

 

I've had good results with OTHER lucas products, but I would NEVER EVER put their oil stabilizer in my engine.

A quality oil like Delo doesn't need ANYTHING lucas can offer.

 

To those of you who might feel satisfied about the Fram 3976A version for the Cummins, the following is a bulletin regarding the changes made. Certainly doesn't seem sufficent to me to justify feeling good about having one on your Cummins. Sad to say, because I am no fan of Wal Mart, but if you are bent on a cheap filter, you are honestly better off with Wally's SuperTech filter made by Champion Labs than a Fram.


HEAVY DUTY
INFORMATION
BULLETIN

FRAM ANNOUNCES PRODUCT IMPROVEMENTS TO THE PH3976

THE PH3976 WILL BE SUPERCEDED TO THE PH3976A

Several important product
improvements have been made to the
PH3976A:
· The cartridge has been upgraded
to contain a spiral center tube.
· The retainer spring is more robust.
23% thicker and stronger material.
· A plastic centertube seal has been
added between the centertube and
the tapping plate. This
improvement creates a better seal
between the filter cartridge and the
tapping plate

 

On Oil,both Dello & Rotella meet the Cummins spec, says so on the oil. Lots of debate on Syn oil, but Cummins makes no additional mile allowance for such. Hence, you pay 3 times more for little extra protection. Unless it is 20 below, or it's 120 and you are running in the red(Stupid anyway), you get nothing extra from syn.
Others will go on about syn properties, but, at the end of the day, does it meet spec? Does it get changed when Cummins specs? Anything else is marketing/hype oil feel stuff.
I think most people like the fuel additives, but no guareentees there, except better mileage. It certainly may help to save LP/VP44's.
My $.02.

 

Maybe you don't get any better warranty with synthetic oil but my vehicle is far out of warranty and I'm looking to run it to 1,000,000 miles. Synthetic oil lubricates better and will help me get there. I run it in the GetRag also.

Edwin

 

Regarding synthetics, after reading many used oil analysis reports on BITOG (bob is the oil guy.com), I have been impressed with the results from Schaeffer's 7000 (15-40) & 9000 (5-40). The guys that use that stuff just love it!!! And, it's reasonably priced.

I had never even heard of Schaeffer's products til I started reading BITOG. Lots of interesting information on many different, lubrication-related subjects.

Schaeffer's started in 1839 building greases for wagon wheels &, today, is the oldest family-owned oil company in the nation.

If anyone checks-out BITOG, look into the "Bypass Filter Forum". Bypass filters in conjunction with quality synthetics can equal long, extended oil drain intervals. For those that do a lot of driving (towing commercially) one of these systems might be something to consider.

Joe F.(Buffalo)

 

Ed, has it REALLY been proven that Synthetic lubricates better Dino? I hear people say they THINK it does. Has there ever been like a test with two fairly equal trucks run from new to let's say 500,000 miles and the engines torn apart to see the difference (if any) between running one on Syn and the other on Dino?

I hear about guys running Rotella Dino for a million miles too.

Don't get me wrong, I spoil my truck. But I haven't been convinced that the synthetic does anything to improve the life of the engine over dino oil.

And, I plan to change every 5k anyway....so the Syn can get a little expensive. Either way, won't the engine still outlast the truck body?

I am not trying to be argumentative, im just looking for some PROOF and not just "im using synthetic because it lubricates better". So far im not buying the hype. Can somebody provide a link to a FACTUAL article with commonly accepted PROOF?

 

Just a FWIW, Valvoline Premium Blue is Cummins recipe contracted and brewed by Valvoline for Cummins engines. It comes factory with PB in it's belly.
Fram and Wix both destroyed several Cummins engines back in the early '90s. Both paid up and stood behind their warranties. Much more than can be said for K&N who's warranty states in writing that they will not be held liable for any damages directly or indirectly as a result of using their filters. Fram and Wix both corrected their filters problems. I won't use Fram, Wix or K&N for the same reasons I wouldn't go back to the ex wife. She may have cleaned up her act but I'd never feel comfortable with 'er again.
Purolator, AC Delco, Motorcraft, Mopar/Fleetguard, and Cummins/Fleetguard are on my list of ok's. I use no additives in fuel or oil and no hype oils.
Must my humble opinion...

 

A very good question so I did some Googling. I fount this article right off the bat:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/15378/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/Mo.../Homepage.aspx

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/s.../oil-life.html

http://www.smartsynthetics.com/artic...il_testing.htm

http://www.herguth.com/synthetic-motor-oil-tests.htm

Everything I have read tells me that synthetic oils are superior to dino oils because they are "built" to have exactly what the designers want in them and they contain none of the inpurities that berak down under the extreme pressures and temperatures in a diesel engine. In a turbo especially, you need an oil that will take the temperature of hot exhaust just a few centimeters away heating the metals to incandescence. The wax, asphault, sulfur etc... in dino oil will turn to sludge at 400 degrees while synthetic oil will run just fine.

Edwin

 

"I hear about guys running Rotella Dino for a million miles too."

That's all the factual proof we need but being the infinately complicated human beings we are with our never ending quest for "something to believe in", we're exremely vulnerable to the hype. Like a bug drawn to the lamp, we can't resist the hype. I use Mobil-1 in my Hemi powered Ram. Never had any trouble using dino oil before but, that psychological "what if" no matter how small or insignificant or blantantly illogical it might be, draws me to the hype. But it's my money. I'll waste it however I see fit. Makes no sense for the most intelligent animals on earth to be so superstitious and gullable does it.