I am a Ford Senior master technician. I have just finished my first day of a three day orientation class for the new 6.4L powerstroke. It appears like there will be nothing that can be changed on this engine for almost any reason to increase performance. Including the normal stuff such as exhaust. The entire exhaust system from the turbo outlet back is an emissions component, including the exhaust tip! You could not replace any part without violating emissions laws and probably destroying the $6,000 particulate filter. Ford is also actively going after aftermarket programmers by installing a line of code that they plan on continually changing at random times during the production line that will detect any non-Ford program and shut everything down til it is reprogrammed by a dealer to factory specs.

They are saying that they are losing too much money to warranty concerns for what they believe are aftermarket programmers that they can not prove. The engineer I spoke with said they estimate that up to 80% of their warranty mechanical engine concerns are due to aftermarket programmers or other power boosters.

Also They are worried about government crackdowns on what the government perceives as the manufacturers seemingly making it too easy or even looking the other way toward diesel performance mods that substantially increase diesel emissions. This engineer likened this new era to the end of the muscle car era, IE the early 70's. The EPA is going to ride them hard on their diesel emission standards. Apparently some feel the big three have gotten a free ride on that so far and they want to stop it. If you think of the power war that has been going on recently, especially since the Duramax, IE increased power output every new model year. It is kind of like the Muscle car wars of the 60's.

I have no idea of knowing how much of that is going to be the case for the other manufacturers but I would assume it will be much of the same story.

Treasure the trucks you have now. Unless you really really really need to have the newest gps nav system or power doohickey, your better off keeping what you have. Thankfully the life span of our engines is a good half million miles with a bit of luck.

 

Diesel modifications has always been against emissions and has always voided your warranty. Nothing's changed, except that they might be more sensitive about the warranty issue now, which I can't blame them. I'm concerned, yet also highly skeptical, about Ford somehow designing an engine that can't be programmed by the aftermarket. One rule of thumb is anything the OEM can do, the aftermarket can do better...

I do think that emissions will end up cracking down on Diesel hotrods, but I'm more concerned about what they'll do to the actual hotrods than what they'll do to the brand new trucks. In my book, the hotrodders are the guys with over 400 horsepower that could start getting fined and ticketed to oblivion. (Or just start getting smoged, which would be really close to the same thing.) Smog checks are what I think can bury the hobby really quickly.

Just because the new trucks have been getting more powerful every year doesn't mean that they haven't also been meeting the EPA's codes too; emissions have been decreased just as consistently as power has been increased.

Really, I don't think that the EPA really has a leg to stand on if they accuse the OEM's from looking the other way with aftermarket programmers. I'm sure that the OEM's hate the programmers, and all the (what they perceive as)ripped off warranty work, more than anything else.

I really don't see anything happening as long as smog checks aren't required. New engines will get much more complicated and expensive (look at the 6.4 liter!), but most states don't have anything preventing you from just voiding your warranty, ripping out the catalytic convertor and EGR, and installing whatever programmer you want. That's what's really amazing about the entire thing.

 

Cutting off their noses to spite their face?....or daring the aftermarket to adapt........

My 'Ol '99 is looking better all the time........and it's paid for.
100,000 miles down, another 400,000 miles to go.

 

What do you want to bet the guys programming the "Non-Ford Limp Mode" forget to tell the guys programming the ECM?

OOPS!!! MY FORD DOESN'T WANT TO BELIEVE IT'S A FORD!


I like my 90 because, as being over 15 years old, most smoggers would never bother to touch me...

 

I love my 6 year old truck more and more everyday.

 

The EPA did it in 02; accused the big engine companies of settting their programming to pass emissions then after X miles, go back to less restrictive programming, and in the process, increase fuel economy. And like anything else the Egotistical Pinhead Administration does, they dont have to have nay proof to back their claim. Anyway, cummins, Cat, navistar, and a few others came to a consent decree to avoid huge fines- all engines built after (I think) 10-01-02 had to meet Jan1 04 emission standards to make up the difference for the "dirtier" engines. I know Cummins and Navistar's pickup engines were excluded, and only had to meet Jan01-04 requirements at Jan01-04.

we should disband the EPA if we are REALLY concerned about reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Every time we get a new emissions hurdle, we have a drop in MPGs, and increase in complexity.

Daniel

 

The EPA is crooked and has to be owned by the Oil Companies.. Thats all I have to say..

Bigger engines+ More horsepower+lower fuel economy=Better Emissions? Umm, someone slept through heat engines class...Somehow that math only works for the supplier of component #3. Why else would they start pulling the BS on Bio fuels to stop that. Heaven forbid we help the farmer...

AAAAAhhhh...

 

That makes me want to get bigger injectors just to blow smoke out of spite.

 

Ford isn't losing their shirt because of diesel engine warranty claims, but thats another story. They made their bed, and now they're sleeping in it.

Hotrodding is over? Hmmm, I remember that call in the mid 70's; and again in the mid 80's when FI replaced carbs. Not only did we survive, we've got cars and trucks better than ever.

 

I can only speak for virginia but I can tell you that diesel engines have not had any emissions requirement to adhere to as far as testing or smog checks go. But that is soon to change. Diesels will be required to pass bi-yearly smog tests and virginia emisions is already setting up roadside infa-red testing stations that check your tail pipe emissions as you drive by and they will then send you a letter to get your vehicle repaired or the dmv will revoke your tags. Even for vehicles registered in countys that do not require regular smog tests.

The only question will be how far back they will grandfather in trucks for testing.

As far as your statement that diesels have been meeting epa standards for years is new to me. My truck has no emissions control equipment and has been that way since is was new. No catalytic convertor, or anything. Electronic engine controls are designed to control smoke and fuel economy but that is not due to epa standards, it is due to the market desiring more power and drivebility than possible in previous mechanically controlled diesels.

The heavy truck diesel market did have an epa mandated new set of standards enacted for them a few years ago. But until the advent of ultra low sulfer diesel, which is part of the new emissions standard, there were no requirements that I know of for personal use sized truck diesel engines. I am an emissions inspector in Virginia and a certified emissions repair mechanic. I can not however speak for other states as far as their laws or emission rules.

As far as Ford not being able to stop aftermarket programmers, you are right to a point. My point here is there is a renewed focus on making it as hard as possible for them. If they randomly change the code line that is acting like a spy for the company the ability to keep up will get pretty darn expensive as the programmer will need to find and counter that new line of code continuously. I am pretty sure that Ford will able to more quickly change their code than the aftermarket can find ways to defeat it. In the past Fords action against aftermarket programmers was pretty passive. Cancel the warranty of vehicles they could prove had been reprogrammed but nothing very proactive. They are now planning on being proactive.

Will some people figure ways around it? Of course. Will some people disable the emissions equipment regardless of the consequences? Of course. But it is going to be much more difficult and expensive.

The mods I have done to my truck are incredible to me for the amount of performance I got v. the money I spent. It is amazing. Spend the same amount of money on a gasser. Get a programmer, exhaust (cat back), free flowing air intake, and you need to go to a track to realize the difference. My truck is night and day from when it was all stock and I have not given up any mileage (its actually better when I stay out of the throttle than stock) and it starts and idles like a stocker.You can not do that with any gas engine put into modern ODBII vehicles.

That will be where diesels are heading. Spend 3-4k dollars for .2 increase in a quarter mile. Whoopee!

 

I love that they beleive that 80% of warranty claims are because of aftermarket parts.

 

Bulabula, Hotrodding is obviously not completely over. I only said that as a discussion provoking statement. You are right about vehicles being better than ever. Anyone who actually drove a muscle car from the late 60's or early 70's and has driven a modern car, and is honest about his memory knows that modern cars will out handle out brake, and yes out accelerate anything built back then. And idle in traffic with the a/c on and the radio blasting on the hottest summer day with no problem. Try that in a LS6 Chevelle!

 

Love my 06, and that's why I don't have an 07. Maybe it will last a long long time.

 

DMcpherson, I can't speak to the truth of that statement of course. I heard it from somoeone who while should know more than me may not have the whole story. But to be fair it is not 80 of total warr. claims. Just mechanical engine concerns, ie cracked pistons, bad bearings, blown headgaskets, etc. I can tell you that it is getting very rare to see engines having those type of problems when totally stock without some sort of owner neglect or abuse.

Even the definition of abuse is changing due to engines being built better. It is not uncommon at all to see Crown Vic cabs with 3-4 hundred thousand miles on them. And I guarantee the maintenance schedule of most of those cabs is not adhered to very strictly.

 

I understand that and realize it would be engine related only, or drivetrain at least. I have seen more bone stock engines blow up than modified ones. probably because the majority of owners with modified trucks know tyhe limits and what can be had. most people add gauges and are safe. I work for Cummins and see tons of failures from injectors sticking open and melting pistons, piston debonding, broken rods, things that may have been prevented with some extra gauges. or the knowledge of wha tthey mean. Im sure that there are no warrantable failures from aftermarket parts, but I think that ford is quick to put the blame on something else to avoid the real issue