ffemt1271

i was wandering at what temp' does diesel gel at? ???

pappyman

It will start gettin thick about -5* then at -20* its hard enuff to bounce rocks off of thats for #2 diesel not winter blend and without a fuel heater Ive gone on many service calls in minnesota on big rigs that shut down with #2 in the tanks overnite....and the driver tryed to heat the fuel tanks and fuel lines with fire (propane torch) plastic fuel lines dont take alot of heating before they melt : you should protect yourself from gelling at +5 to be safe

The fleet I ran in Savannah would travel along the whole east coast and every driver was given a couple of bottles of anti-gel that they added if they hit really cold temps

Gelling is not as much of a problem now days with winter blend being sold even in the southern states...but 10 years ago the south only had #2 and fueling in the south then running north caused troubles with gelling

Iam sure someone can give exact numbers that #2 will start to gel at... ;D

TPilaske

I thought 98rammer posted on this a while back and said it starts to gel at 7*?? ???

ffemt1271

about 18 is absolutely the coldest it should get here in louisiana so i should be good to go----thanks

Dieseldude4x4

I've had the #2 in my heating oil tank gel here in Va. Had to buy some special chemical that was about $40 a quart to un-gel it. Don't know what it was but it took that jello and turned it back into fuel in about three minutes in that 275 gallon tank. I started my old 89 up north one morning at 10 below when the hotel I was staying at would not let me plug it in. I was worried but after a few seconds, she was firing on all six and ready to go.<br><br>Unless you are travelling up north, I would not be real concerned where you are. Fuel conditioner is pretty cheap insurance though and it would never hurt to run a can through every now and then especially in cold weather. I personally use Power Service year round.

pappyman

Power Service does make some good fuel products ;D

pappyman

Found some more info on gelling<br><br>Below 15 degrees F, wax crystals begin to form in diesel fuel. These crystals form a gell that will clog the fuel filter or fuel lines and stop the engine as the temperature drops toward 0 F. Any good &quot;winter fuel conditioner&quot; for diesel fuel will keep the fuel moving to at least -20 degrees<br><br>The first hint is often an unstable idle. The idle speed may increase to 1000 rpm or more and fluctuate slowly. Next the engine will begin to lose power. Within a few minutes the engine will quit and not restart or will only restart briefly<br><br>The time proven remedy is to add a gallon of kerosene for each 10 to 20 gallons of fuel to the tank, then allow it to sit long enough for the kerosene to diffuse into the fuel. In weather below -20 degrees F, one gallon of kerosene for 10 gallons of fuel will keep things moving, but fuel economy will be reduced. Kerosene now has red dye which a DOT inspector will assume is off-road diesel. Be prepared for a hassle if you are checked. <br>Apply heat to the fuel filter to break up the wax<br><br>Always use a winter front when traveling in the cold... It doesn't take long for fuel lines to gel...the gas stations will switch to a winter blend of Diesel to prevent gelling... I believe that the switch occurs as soon as temps start dropping to &lt; 32F... Carry a bottle of diesel anti-gel with you (but check to see what Cummins recommends).. You may want to make sure and run down your tank of diesel that you've bought in warmer climates (once again this comes from sheer ignorance of how things work in your home area), and fill up once you hit the snow belt...

Dieseldude4x4

My uncle was a diesel mechanic for 30 years or so for Yellow Freight in Lancaster, Pa. He said in the winter time, they used a 10% kero mix in the trucks to keep them from gelling. I used that theory in my old 89 for eight of the ten years I owned it and never had a problem even when my heating oil tank gelled. <br>Not recommending anything here, just backing up what pappy said above (not that he needs backed up or anything).

sdgunslinger

I've always been told gelling can start below 20 . I start to worry anytime the temp dips much below that . Most folks in this part of the country run a mix of 50% #2 and 50% #1 thru the dead of winter . I use that in my equipment plus add some Power Service to insure there's no stray moisture someplace in the system that can freeze up . In the really extreme stretches of cold , where we stuggle to get to highs of 5 below or less , I like 30/70 #2/#1 plus some Power Service added . <br><br>If you gell up a diesel motor out in the open somewheres away from a power source and it goes to 20 bleow , you are screwed, blued , and tatooed .

ffemt1271

my truck is a 03 what does cummins say about fuel additives for that model?

dodgeram

only time I've ever had gelling/freezup problems is when the needle dips down to around -40(they do sell winter blend here though) .....

then I just throw in some antigel (I got some stuff called artic heat from my local service station, seems to work well)

I usually wait till it starts to freeze up before I throw it in the tank, then I just wait about 30 seconds and it runs fine again........

it acts like the fuel filter is plugged when it starts freezing up (low power, lots of white smoke, dies when you step on the throttle too much)

oh yeah I've had a diesel truck left sitting out at the cabin in the bush (no power) for 3-4 days in -40 and yeah you're pretty much screwed if you have no way to warm it up ....

I found 15 minutes with a propane tiger torch(the small one) and a stove pipe (to direct the heat under the oil pan) warms her up just fine


just rember to keep the propane tank inside where it's warm overnight cause propane freezes up at -40 too

Haulin_in_Dixie

I cannot tell you the temperatures that #2 starts to gell, but I can tell you this. In the late 80's I darn near froze to death about 20 miles from Rice Lake Wisconson when the fuel waxed or gelled at 7 degrees in the middle of the night. That was on Alabama fuel. I forgot to stop and add some #1. I learned a great lesson that will never happen again, plus it was expensive, the tanker towed in and warmed up.

cp

+12F sticks in my mind as the cloud point of #2.

When they gell up they act as if the fuel filter is clogging, because it is--with paraffin from the fuel.

Two properties of diesel are affected by temperature--cloud point and pour point, with cloud point being the temperature at which solid paraffin begins to come out of solution with the fuel and pour point being the lowest temperature at which the whole mess, paraffin particles and all, will flow. Most additives are pour point depressants and do little or nothing to delay the formation of paraffin particles (the cloud point) of fuel. They make the fuel a less viscous fluid, but it still has solid paraffin particles in it which are filtered out by the fuel filter and quickly clog it unless the filter is hot. (I understand VW uses an electrically heated fuel filter for this reason.) Pour point depressants allow the fuel to be pumped to a heating element, whether it be a dedicated fuel heating system or just the warm(er) environment of the engine compartment. Extreme cold systems heat the fuel in the tanks. Of course, none of this does any good if the vehicle is being started from a dead cold stop. It takes time to get the engine warmed up to the point where it will heat its own fuel and sometimes the fuel gels before that.

Good fuel suppliers begin 'spiking' some (more later) of their fuel (blending it with #1) in relation to the lowest expected temperature. In my area, Amoco starts blending fuel around November 15 and continues until about March 15. But not all fuel you buy in winter is blended--a lot of truck operators, the ones with all-up fuel heating systems, don't want or need blended fuel. It's more expensive and gets worse mileage, so truck operators who have heating systems and aren't going to shut them off run straight #2, which most truck stops have, in addition to blended fuel. Woe to the person with an unheated fuel system who tools up to one of these pumps and loads up--you just got a load of straight #2, and chances are that the next time it gets down to zero and you start your truck, go back in the house to drink your coffee, when you come out, it probably will be dead. And it will not restart until you drag it in somewhere where it's warm (or build a fire under it--don't ask me how I know). My experience with gelled engines is that they always start--but soon die.

wheezer

The old PSD would start and run at -20 not plugged in on #2. I idle for a couple minutes and take it easy till water gauge moves. The coldest I've had the CTD (only have had it this winter) was -15 in Baggs, WY. The hotel didn't have an outside outlet. The CTD fired within a turn or two on the first grid cycle, ran fine. Temp made it up to about 0 at noon. This was using Power Service though. After browsing this site I figure it can't hurt to add some lubricity to the fuel. I also notice a little better mpg. Maybe 1 mpg. I tried PS in the PSD but didn't notice any benefit. Sort of sold on it for the CTD.

P Kennedy

cp has a pretty good handle on the fuel explanation but there are some misconceptions about fuel grades. US and Canada have different marketing techniques. Somehow in the US #1 Gasoline is Premium fuel and #1 diesel is winter fuel and is any thing but a premium product but they sell it at a premium cost even though it is light grade diesel (P40= -40F flow capability). #2 fuel is P20 or summer fuel and burns hotter therefore more power/fuel milage but as stated will show signs of gelling/waxing at 20 deg F or lower depending on refinery and additves. Canada and Alaska have access to P50 Arctic fuel also known as Stove oil, kerosene and arctic diesel again with reduced Cetane rating (some refiners add special additves for Cetane boosting avg. 40) and reduced power/milage but allows engines to run -50+. Kereosene and Jet B are indentical except jet fuel is highly filtered for impurities and sight clarity tested when loading/handling as airplanes with fuel problems are bad news. Some big trucks have fuel heaters in the fuel tanks that are basically a hot water loop of coolant that keeps the fuel warm and allows the use of #2 fuel year around provided engine is and has run continously. Ours run continously and are parked in a heated shop when shutdown with #2 US fuel. In Canada fuel is constantly blended up and down per season and usually no problem with gelling unless you pick up older season fuel or sudden temp drops. We do lose fuel milage but have very little gelling related breakdowns and most who have experienced a problem carry a degelling agent/fuel conditioner with them, I prefer to carry FPPF Polar Heat as its only purpose is to cut wax/gelling. Fuel price is dependant on market price not grade and Kerosene and Jet B is available but is more costly than pump fuel, however price is irrelevant when your cold and need to cut the fuel that is gelling. When I hauled fuel North for airplanes in the extreme cold the fuel that was used for rinsing the tanker trailer got used (slop) for thinning the fuel in the truck tanks 5-10 Gals. per tank every trip. The evolution of diesel electronics and low sulphur fuel has made it harder to just mix and match conditioners as some do contain high levels of Alcohol which tight tolerances of pumps, injectors and decreased lubricating properties of fuel can cause major problems. Also generally if the vehicle has been running and gelled fuel is detected in the tank chances are the little fuel lines are just about plugged solid being the most exposed without a source of heat. Cummins B's circulate warm fuel back to the tank quite well and after 1-2 hours running on the highway the fuel in the tank is quite warm, but again that little line under the truck in the frame at 70mph at -30-40F has nothing. I dont mind losing 2-4mpg if I dont have to do road side repairs at extreme cold temps, but I dont think it is fair to charge more money for less efficient fuel like south of the border and mislead the public. PK