check out this article, the hybrid electric vs diesel......diesel still wins

http://www.goodcleantech.com/2008/03...us_in_mpgs.php

 

my work cars beat both of em and cost 1/4 of a bmw.....92 civic hatch 45-44mpg and 00 civic hatch 43mpg
87 mile round trip for work every day

 

The test didn't seem fair according to my limited knowledge of hybrids.
I've always heard the hybrid advantage is in city stop and go when the electric kicks in, on the highway they run solely on gas.
Since the test was mainly highway it seems logical the diesel BMW would win.
Bet the BMW was a much more comfortable ride too.

 

That's an article I've already read, and it's pretty valid overall as it may represent more a of typcial "American" driver with a good mix of rural, suburban, and urban driving, verses a European with a more intensive urban & suburban mix.

That said, this is with the 4-cylinder 5-series 520d, and how I wish BMW NA (North America) could get over their image issues and deploy a lineup of 4-Cylinder 1 and 3 series cars (gas & diesel) as they would compare even more favorably with the Prius. The 335d will probalby barely get out of the 30's in terms of mpg, and I actually averaged 34 mpg on the highway with my '93 325i 5-speed. Don't be misled, I'm greatful that ANY BMW diesel is making it over here, however this dual-turbo 3.5L I-6 is going to appeal more to power-oriented drivers (with big wallets.) Would it have made sense to offer both a 320d & and 335d at initial introduction?

 

In 1985 and 1986 the BMW 524TD was imported to the US. There were somewhere around 3500 brought in. I have one. I average 38 mpg driving how ever I like. I have got 40 babying it. Its got a inline 6 cylinder turbo chargedengine, no intercooler unfortunatley. This is mid 80 technology and look at the fuel economy. The car doesnt smoke. I imagine it could probably pass an emissions test, although thats not required here. Too bad they couldn't just keep doing what they were in the mid eighties. I would love to have the chance to own this car new.

 

Not true. The Prius runs on electric all the time. the gas engine is a generator only

 

OK, I ask the BIG WHY????? I bought a $13,000 Toyota Corolla, 5spd manual, and with city driving I get 39 mpg. I drive 39 miles to a from work with 80% of that highway. When I go on any length of a trip I get 42+ mpg........ WHY spend 2 to 3 times that amount on a hybrid/diesel/whatever. The mpg savings are not there to justify it !!!!!!!! I also have a 1998 4 door Civic that averages 37 mpg with the mixed driving and 41+ on all highway ......... 4 Cylinder cars are great....jb

 

I think he means the engine runs intermittantly in the city and constantly on the highway. Which it does, except maybe on a downgrade.

It's well known that the Prius gets worse mileage on the highway. In the city it shuts off whenever it can, and not enough of the time in my opinion. The prius is not smart enough or does not have enough interface with the driver to be as good as it could be.

If it had a bit more battery, plug in charging and the ability to be told how long the drive would be it could keep the engine off MUCH more of the time and maybe completely for some drivers. The technology will improve and, even now people are customizing them to do just that.

 

it would be interesting if a "seasoned" prius driver did that test. Hybrids like the prius and the insight never see there full potential with a average Joe driving them for the first time. It takes some practice to find the "sweet spots" that these cars have. I'm not even talking about hypermileing ether.
Unlike what toyota or honda say, lots of driver input IS required to acheve hyper-mpg. However, this becomes second nature to a owner that strives to get the best mpg possible.

 

Just as the Clean Car Forum was coming on line, I stared a thread (that was closed down due to the new forum) regarding a Chicago-area car finder book's proud ad for "New '08 Toyota Prius' in-stock: $32,995!!!" This was a non-negotiable price.

If one took a moment to calcuate the cost differential between an automatic Corolla for around 16.5k (pretty loaded) that averaged around 36 mpg and the only slightly larger Prius that averaged around 42 mpg at 33k, with gas staying at $4/gal, and assuming that you purchased each car outright, with no intrest & payments afterwards, and no repair or maintance costs to factor in. Finally you drove each car 20,000 miles a year at the mileage as listed it would take over fourty years to recoup the differance in intial cost alone. Dang! I better hurry out for that great deal on a Prius...

 

That's what I'm YELLING ......... Some people just have too much money and no sense ......

 

32,000! wow, what a rip. in the example above, it definitely would not make sense. the mpg is to close. where you score big is say you take your truck at 15mpg, and buy hybrid that gets 50-80mpg. then the numbers are more resonable. In my case, the gas i saved payed for the car in five years---not typical for most that buy one

 

Wikipedia and I disagree:

A 1NZ-FXE internal combustion engine (ICE) using the more efficient Atkinson cycle instead of the more powerful Otto cycle. The gasoline engine normally shuts off during traffic stops and the accessories (including the air conditioning) are powered by the battery pack. The engine is used both to propel the vehicle and to recharge the batteries. Because of the availability of extra power from the electric motors for rapid acceleration the engine is sized smaller than usual for increased fuel efficiency and lowered emissions with acceptable acceleration;

 

The same could be said for all drivers of any car. A lot of drivers I see out there like to use the full travel of both pedals when driving. Slowing down a little and not putting the skinny pedal to the floor they would see an increase in MPG on thier current vehicle. Its seems like when ever I go to the big city every one drives around like the accelerator and brake are on/off switches.

 

I totally agree. If people would just relax and drive-without acting like they own a top fuel car, the mpgs on most cars i believe could be better then the EPA ratings given(or at least reached).