The only thing that I was implying in my opening thread was this:

There are a LOT of guys and gals out there that buy their vehicles, especially heavy-duty trucks, based simply off of what that vehicle's load, towing and power ratings are. A buddy of mine bought an 06 Duramax rather than an 06 Cummins simply because it came 35hp/40lbs stronger than the Cummins stock...on paper anyway. I personally think that GMs numbers are crap once you strap them down to a dyno. Those "Godly" Allisons seem to either have more drivetrain loss than these crap 48REs, or GM is just in the business of over-rating their numbers to sell trucks.

Ford, on the other hand, have heavier rated trucks than both Dodge and GM. They almost ALWAYS hold a higher payload, towing and GCWR than the competition. That saddled with a higher power rating from the crate is usually enough to sell the truck to anybody out there looking to pull heavy and stay within the legal "from the assembly-line" numbers of their truck.

Most Dodge and GM guys have to insure their vehicle for more weight to keep things legal and competitive with Ford's numbers...

If these Scorpions prove to be the real deal, GM and Dodge are going to have problems (as if they don't already).

 

Mike,

There is a lot read into the HP numbers. Even with Dodges. So many times I've read where someone is picking between an '04 HO at 305 HP and an '04.5 with 325 HP. Usually the 325 HP wins even though a Smarty will make way more diffrence than that and the '04 gets better mileage. They just have to have that imaginary 20 HP, so the numbers win. Even with Ford over Dodge. The numbers win. It's like when so many want a V8 instead of a six. Well, we all know a V8 is bigger and better, right? At least that's what the salesman said! Dodge will always be at an advertising disadvantage with an uninformed public.

As someone wiser than me once said on this sight "You could put a blue oval on a pile of dog $h-t and people would stand in line to buy it".

 

I had a 04 dually with the 305hp engine and my 06 is of course the 325 engine. With the same mods the 06 blows the doors off the 04. The turbo on the 04.5+ engines, they can easily handel another 10psi of boost over the early 04 HP very beneficial if your adding a smarty
As far as mileage is conserned its same once the engine gets broke in.
Guess you just have to owned both to get the real comparison.

 

wasnt about to jump on ya for the stoping room for anything it is comon sence for a third with breaks with that kind of weight i just figured you knew that and by the way good for jumping to the 22.5's that helps all i was saying is it might not be fast but it will do the job no need to jump ship for 50 horse if it isint going to prove to be as good 5 years down the road as the day you start to work it like the cummins has been and will be

 

Sorry if I sound stupid, I really don't think I am but here's my question" How much hp and torque do we have to have in these small trucks" ? I drive an '08 freightliner that weighs 22,000 lbs light, I carry another 20,000-22,000 lbs. in the refer box. That added up is 42-44,000 lbs. The truck rolls down the freeway at 75mph all day long if I choose. I climbs hills, it slows a bit and goes down the other side. I'm running an 8.3 ISC 285 hp engine. I know the torque is higher than the little trucks but do we really need 350-400 hp in a little truck. I have been wondering and waiting for the accidents to start happening with these little trucks hauling oversized loads and the DOT getting involved. Why send a little man to do a big job. Heck a new fully loaded F 550 will likely cost as much as a freightliner anyway. I have talked to lots of rv drivers over the years and you can tell when you come across an ex-trucker. He has a class 6 or 7 and sometimes even larger truck pulling the camper. I talked to a fellow one day that was running a freightliner. He had a ford F450 and had thousands of $'s invested to make the truck do the job. He said he smartened up and bought a real truck at a cost of less than $10,000 more. He also told me he did nothing to the suspension, brakes, transmission, engine, tires, wheels, nothing. He also said that the fuel mileage was very close to the ford. He also said that the truck would not be trashed and worn out after a 100,000 miles of towing.
I have a 235 hp cummins that to me will tow anything I feel safe to be behind me. The truck weighs 7000 lbs, I don't think towing 20,000 behind a small truck is safe. I was always taught buy the oldtimers that you use the right tool for the job and the job gets done and nobody gets hurt. I guess I am missing something.

 

not missing a thing
like me you where taught to drive down a hill when loaded and not reli on the breaks on the way down aswell i would guess

 

No, you don't sound stupid at all. I was raised the same way, to use the right tool for the right job. I have never really understood the driving fast with heavy loads deal, especially with a pickup. Diesel trucks don't NEED big HP, they NEED big TQ. It is my understanding that with a simple ECM swap, these 5.9s can be altered to make BIG torque with smaller HP numbers. I think that, personally, they install them to have BIG HP numbers and comparable torque numbers simply to be flashier to the broader spectrum. If my truck had 250hp/610tq (and made peak torque at the same RPM that it does now), I would be just as happy as the 325/610 that it is rated at from the factory. An 18 year old (and some older folks as well) would be happier seeing the 325 vice the 250 though, follow me? So all in all, the higher those numbers go, the more trucks that they are likely to sell.

The DOT, down where I am originally from, is VERY involved. I have seen a FEW trucks pulled over just for squatting so badly they are sitting on the overload springs. Whether it was concluded that the load was too heavy or just improperly loaded is unknown to me, but they ARE pulling folks over down there for even LOOKING over their limits. Not sure why they attempt it, but a 1500 (of ANY brand) with a 25' gooseneck full of cattle IS overloaded (witnessed twice).

This one is pretty subjective. I have seen some little "men" work CIRCLES around bigger "men" many times. As such, I am sure that my 2500 will work circles around a 6.5L Chevy 3500 all day long and do it safely at the same time.

But at the same time, your truck (don't know if it's a 2500 or a 3500) is nearing 10 years old, has lower GCWR/GVWR, etc, than a 2010 model, doesn't come standard with an exhaust brake to stop heavier loads with on top of bigger brakes and a much stronger engine.

I'm willing to bet that the feeling of 20000lbs behind your truck and a brand new 3500 would feel MUCH different, as far as stability.

The number ratings keep going up on these trucks because of technology. I personally feel that the ratings on some of these vehicles are LOW for safety purposes. But if you were to ask me if I felt safe with a 20K 5ver behind me in a new Dodge 3500, my answer would be yes. In my 2006 Dodge 2500 lacking an exhaust brake, no.

 

People buy these trucks for diffrrent reasons. I bought mine to pull a 14k fiver.
No ambition of hot rod. 500 ftlbs does my job nicely, with OK fuel econmy, even with 4.10's. In 2002 when i bought this truck new for $3ok with extended warrnty, 7 years, It was the HO model vs SO.
Perhaps it's time to go back to options for those who want more power & speed. Bilsteins shocks as an option. 19.5 tires with biggerg brakes. I guess the 4500/5500 address some of this.
I think most people are OK with what these trucks do from the factory, more or less.
There is a large group on this and every other site that will always want more power and torque, regardless of the cost.
These trucks, for the most part, are very reliable, with some maintenance.
My neighbor hasa 93 250 with low mileage. The gen 2's, other than VP44 & LP are very reliable.
FWIW, when I bought my truck, the 3500 seemed to be rated for 1 or 2k more than an F350 7.3. It was also $10k less, after deals.
For people with a need for speed & power, Ford is waiting for you.
For those who just need to get the job done reliably, we will keep our CTD's.
I hope Ford's new motor does OK. Only time will tell. At the very least, they will not have to take the body off the frame. That is a REAL advancement in technolgy. They even claim it as a feature. How sad.

 

I had an 05 F250 with the 6.0PSD and didn't have a single problem with it over the 100k miles I owned it before my wife wrecked it. The truck had it's pros and cons just like with anything else. I would hope to see the new Ford engine succeed just because I am a car/truck guy in general and always like having a plan B. Will I buy one probably not, but I don't plan to buy a GM or Dodge either. I am quite content with my little '06 2500 and hope she does the job for many years to come......On second thought that 2010 3500 does look nice

 

Will agree with you. I use to drive a 7 axle truck trailer (running 12/22.5 tires) loaded to 101,000 it was slow up a 6% grade but it got the job done. BTW it only had a Cummins 350 with after cooler rated at 300 HP, that's 25 less HP them my 06 but will admit it did have a lot more TQ then my little 5.9L. My self I would take a lower HP engine so long as it was putting out 800 TQ. I was taught HP is what makes you go fast and TQ is for work and what gets the job done.

JMHO

 

Since everyone is throwing in their opinions and this has nothing to do with the new Scorpion any more, I'll add mine.
Just sounds to me like RAMRODD is getting the most out of his truck, and if he can pull 38k loads out of a muddy field and then down the highway at highway speeds, has alot of miles on the truck and alot of mods, then he's proving the durability of the Dodge/Cummins.
We should all be giving him a slap on the back for torture testing our trucks for us. Now I know my 07 will go forever picking up groceries and towing the boat.
Get's a little old everyone preaching on these sites about what you're not supposed to do with your truck and looking down their noses at anyone they don't approve of. I jsut got a reminder on another thread that I shouldn't tow my trailer over 65mph! ANd another guy who is a cop (presumably) and chimed in on a radar detector thread telling me he'd have hauled me to jail if he was the cop in my radar detector story.
Please noone read teh thread I just responded to where I mentioned imbellishing about the purchase price of a used private party truck to get out of paying double taxes to the state on it!
Some of you guys would have had a heart attack back in the day. OMG, pulling a 20k lb hay trailer with a 72 Chebby with bias tires, a mighty 200hp small block and drum brakes all the way around?? It's a wonder we didn't all die from that (or licking lead paint)!

 

Just want to make my self clearer. I don't care what you haul and with what or how, I'm just stating a point that I would rather buy a truck that is designed for heavy duty applications. I am not saying that the new ford is no good, and I'm not saying that I wouldn't love to have one. I'm a Ford guy from way back. I hauled more stuff with an old f 250 than I would like to admit. Loaded everyday with 5ooo lbs in the bed, never had an issue. Was made to do it at work till I convinced them we needed a bigger truck. I just don't understand these hp deals. We have a new Chevy 3500 cutaway with a duramax. I thought these engines put out something around 350 hp. They do I guess in a light truck. In ours its 250 hp. In the larger trucks they tell me its like 200 hp. A friend said it was that they detune them for heavier apps. so the don't burn up, his opinion. I just think being a commercial driver myself that you use the proper tool for the job. Meaning if you are using your truck for heavy loads get a heavy truck. We all know that some people don't have 2 clues about somethings. You pump these trucks up and tell them ( the people ) they have 400 hp and exhaust brakes and this and that and they think they have a semi. Thats my point. The new super duty does look sharp though, and if Mike Rowe says its a tough truck, I will take his word on that.

 

The biggest advantage for me to run like I have been is I can go to any state anytime I need to with no hassle. If I need to go to Nebraska to pick up a tractor I can.

If I had a class 7 truck I am limited to 150 miles. If I want to go farther I need to relicense the truck change my insurance just to make this 1 trip.

Why all of a sudden is Hp such a bad thing. I know Hp isn't what moves the load but higher HP gets you to the TQ faster thats not such a bad thing. Would I take a 200hp 800tq 5.9 over a 350hp and 650 tq 5.9?? well yes I would but that really isn't a option now is it.

 

I guess some here are missing my point. So therefore I will end this by saying " I'm sorry for sounding stupid" maybe "I am stupid".

 

And I read this entire thread for what?