mopower01

was wondering if it is possible to put a bosch p-pump on a moline 504 ci engine. does it matter what direction the pump spins? i was told that it does by a very unreliable source. is there any other engine that used a p-pump other than the 5.9 cummins? the tractor currently has been turbocharged, a-pump installed, larger injector lines, drilled out injectors, 75psi electric fuel pump. i dont know what else to do. it makes very little smoke at 2000 rpm under full load making 235hp but at 1500rpm it is smoking pretty good. anyway i want a lot of smoke under full load and i think the p-pump, if possible, would be the best bang for the buck.

JD730

Mack truck engines used P-pumps, I know some case tractor engines used them also. John Deere 4840 and bigger have them too. I know the through hole and bolt pattern is a little bit bigger.

mopower01

do you by chance know what case tractors? either cubic inches or model number of tractor. and what the numbers on the tag should read? also if it matters what direction then turn? clockwise or counterclockwise? i am looking to do something before the pulling season is over but i dont know if i will have the time.

JD730

The Case tractors with the 504 cubic inch engine, I don't know which model numbers, but there are quite a few.

I'll try to remember to get the numbers off my P-pumped John Deere 466 tonight.

What rotation do you need?

Tingram

the case tractor use an a-pump i dont think any of them use the p-pump unless there are a newer series that use them the john deere pumps are all going to be clockwise rotation, you are probably just going to have to call a pump shop to get somethin, built even a p-pump in stock form probably isnt going to give you what you are looking for.

gwhammy

I saw a guy take a John Deere block that wasn't made for a p-pump and weld a chunk they plasma cut out of a junk block to the good block. It was a pulling tractor and ran like that till they sold it. He said they had done other blocks that way too.
The hardest part will be will be getting the gears setup on the front of the block. I'll bet it's been done in the pulling tractor world but I can't tell you where to look. Good luck!

timebomb

You should be able to get enough fuel out of that A Pump to due what you want with the Minnie Mo. Remember they only have like 3 main caps holding that crank in place.

JD730

4 to be exact.

Tingram

you also have to remember that the cam in that thing is only made to run at 1900 rpm, anything over that and it isnt going to be real efficent

mopower01

we noticed that at 2000 rpm we picked up about 10hp compared to running it at 1900 rpm. when we went up to 2100 rpm the hp didnt change at all. i know that it only has 4 mains but i still think it is capable of more power. i have a 585 ci direct injection engine that i am going to do the same thing with and see if it makes the same power or if the indirect injection system is what is truly holding me back. right now i am looking for another g-1000 to put the 585 in. i still think more fuel would help and the p-pump would do that. also would the cam out of a gas/lp 504 be better for more rpms?? any idea what jds had a p-pump. im not looking for a good one, just one to do a mock up and see if it is feasible.

Tingram

the 4640 4840 and the larger 55 way on up to tractors with the 8.1 liter engine tractors have p-pumps, but in the long run it might be cheaper if you have your a-pump built, then again it depends on your rules, the guys that talk about the molines only having 4 main cap aparently havent seen the crank or the caps out of one of those engines, they will hold up unless you start pushing alot of boost at alot of rpms

Mt Ram

John Deere's with P pumps include 4840 (the 4640 has an A pump) 7520, 8630, 8640, 8650, 8760, 8770, 8870, 4960, also, some 8820 combines. 9500, and 9600 combines use the P pump, but it has an electronic governor. You may already know that a P pump has a larger bolt pattern and front bearing retainer than an A pump.

mopower01

yeah i agree that the crank shouldnt break unless it is turning a lot of rpms and making stupid boost. as far as the pump goes do you know of any good shops that will do work on an a-pump, approx. $$$$, and approx. fuel output. i know the p-pump has a larger flange and that is why i was looking for a trashed one to see if it even feasible to do this or just keep working with the a-pump. as far as rules........ im already way out of the rules. this is an exhibition type pulling tractor. so i am open to any and all suggestions. just let me know what you guys are thinking the best route would be.

kruegerlouie

believe the case 4890-and 4894s used the p pumps but the smaller ones used the a pumps. all 21&2366-88s used p pumps also, if anyone is serouios about building a good running MM i can hook them up with a very well known source,he runs a super farm G1000 with the best of them. pm me. ps a 585 would be the only mm diesel engine to start out with as its the only direct injected diesel they made and the bottom end is much stronger.

Tingram

i know that you can get an a-pump from columbus diesel that will flow 500 cc for about $2700, and i will guarantee that you will like it, every pump i have bought from them has been outstanding. if you are interested send me a private message sometime and i will give you my number so you can call me.