74 Crewcab + 95 4x4 frame + 93 D250 donor project
06-05-2010, 09:12 AM
#1
74 Crewcab + 95 4x4 frame + 93 D250 donor project
Hi everyone I'm new to the forums, been lurking around reading a bit- and on the DTR site. I live in Vail Arizona which is close to Tucson AZ. Anyways I've started a project here, hoping it will work out well. Main reason for doing all this is that my D250 will not tow a trailer up our driveway to our new house and it barely makes it by itself. Well, I picked up a divorced ford drivers drop NP205 transfer case, a frame from a 95 cummins complete with a dana 60 and a 1974 D200 crewcab dodge- total of parts and the crewcab so far is $2200... So I'll be making 3 trucks into 1: the rear half of the crewcab frame, front half of the 95 4x4 frame, the D250 trucks doors, fenders, front facia, engine trans and rear axle, interior and the NP205 will tie all the axles together...
Sorry about the crappy pictures, I've been using my phone since I lost my camera...
95 frame with Dana 60:
All the meanwhile I have the transmissions out of these 2 landcruisers and 3 more outside with more maintenance... I fix these things for a living.
I did have some questions:
Has anyone ever put the frame from a 95 or part of one under a 1st gen?
What years of the 2nd gen motor mounts will bolt onto the 1st gen engine?
Does anyone know how different the widths are between the 2nd gen and 1st gen axles?
Why the heck am I doing this?
BTW, thank you to the guys who have done this and documented it, Johnny5 and many others are inspirational to the cause.
Sorry about the crappy pictures, I've been using my phone since I lost my camera...
95 frame with Dana 60:
All the meanwhile I have the transmissions out of these 2 landcruisers and 3 more outside with more maintenance... I fix these things for a living.
I did have some questions:
Has anyone ever put the frame from a 95 or part of one under a 1st gen?
What years of the 2nd gen motor mounts will bolt onto the 1st gen engine?
Does anyone know how different the widths are between the 2nd gen and 1st gen axles?
Why the heck am I doing this?
BTW, thank you to the guys who have done this and documented it, Johnny5 and many others are inspirational to the cause.
06-05-2010, 09:13 AM
#2
I made some progress, been very busy with work so I haven't spent a whole lot of time on the project. I did find my camera, hopefully no more cell phone pics...
Bed lifted
95 frame cut
Cab lifted off frame, I do not have the ability to lift it off and haul it out of the way, I'll have to work with this. I had to remove the rear axle and roll the frame from under the cab...
Frame out from under cab and next to 95
Front of old frame cut off.
95 frame with tires on, almost ready to mate to crewcab frame...
Bed lifted
95 frame cut
Cab lifted off frame, I do not have the ability to lift it off and haul it out of the way, I'll have to work with this. I had to remove the rear axle and roll the frame from under the cab...
Frame out from under cab and next to 95
Front of old frame cut off.
95 frame with tires on, almost ready to mate to crewcab frame...
06-05-2010, 09:14 AM
#3
Mated, I have more gusseting to do to the frame, but the 2 went together really well. Found some really accurate places to measure to... I will wait till final gusseting because I am pretty sure the trans cross member is going to go right where the 2 frames come together. Sure enough, whatever tooling dodge is using to make the newer boxed front section slides right inside of the older frames- made the process very easy...
Found some cracks in the cowl that need addressed...
I pressure washed the frame, cleaned up a bit, next is to mount the divorced transfer, fab up some front body mounts and start working on the cab... This is proving to be a lot of work :S:
Found some cracks in the cowl that need addressed...
I pressure washed the frame, cleaned up a bit, next is to mount the divorced transfer, fab up some front body mounts and start working on the cab... This is proving to be a lot of work :S:
06-05-2010, 09:34 AM
#5
Registered User
Wow that's an ambitious project, looks really good. Where there's a will, there's a way. It should ride nice with the 2nd gen front end.
The only answer I have for you is on the motor mounts. The actual mount that bolts to the engine will interchange. The motors 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens have the same bolt pattern, I can only imagine even the new 4th gens would too.
The only answer I have for you is on the motor mounts. The actual mount that bolts to the engine will interchange. The motors 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens have the same bolt pattern, I can only imagine even the new 4th gens would too.
06-05-2010, 09:39 AM
#6
Wow that's an ambitious project, looks really good. Where there's a will, there's a way. It should ride nice with the 2nd gen front end.
The only answer I have for you is on the motor mounts. The actual mount that bolts to the engine will interchange. The motors 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens have the same bolt pattern, I can only imagine even the new 4th gens would too.
The only answer I have for you is on the motor mounts. The actual mount that bolts to the engine will interchange. The motors 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gens have the same bolt pattern, I can only imagine even the new 4th gens would too.
If the axle widths are way off I guess I'll just get a 2nd gen rear axle- someday in the distant future.
06-05-2010, 11:14 AM
#7
You really got lucky! those 1st gen frames came in a variety of heights over the years. I was VERY surprised to see how it just fit together like that.
You're going to have a lot of fab to do to get the cab and front clip to fit on there as you well know. I do like the boxed front frames on those 2nd trucks but I dunno I would've just stuck with a 1st gen frame with leaves and a passenger drop KINGPIN dana 60 instead of that full time/drive flange driver drop ball joint D60 front. And yes, you found out the axles hub to hub are wider on 2nd gens... They also use 3" leaves/spring perches on the back end as compared to the 2.5" leaves on the 1st gen.
The steering on those leaves much to be desired as well with the track bar and all of that monkey motion... The ride isn't any better on 2nd gen coils than a good / new / servicable set of leaves in my opinion.
A lot of guys go out of their way to ditch all that stuff up front on their 2nd gens is all just sayin' maybe you want to consider options while you're ahead and have it all apart.
BTW someone did a wicked nice paint job on the crew... There would've been no way to tell it was originally forest service green unless you pulled it all apart!
You're going to have a lot of fab to do to get the cab and front clip to fit on there as you well know. I do like the boxed front frames on those 2nd trucks but I dunno I would've just stuck with a 1st gen frame with leaves and a passenger drop KINGPIN dana 60 instead of that full time/drive flange driver drop ball joint D60 front. And yes, you found out the axles hub to hub are wider on 2nd gens... They also use 3" leaves/spring perches on the back end as compared to the 2.5" leaves on the 1st gen.
The steering on those leaves much to be desired as well with the track bar and all of that monkey motion... The ride isn't any better on 2nd gen coils than a good / new / servicable set of leaves in my opinion.
A lot of guys go out of their way to ditch all that stuff up front on their 2nd gens is all just sayin' maybe you want to consider options while you're ahead and have it all apart.
BTW someone did a wicked nice paint job on the crew... There would've been no way to tell it was originally forest service green unless you pulled it all apart!
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06-05-2010, 12:40 PM
#8
You really got lucky! those 1st gen frames came in a variety of heights over the years. I was VERY surprised to see how it just fit together like that.
You're going to have a lot of fab to do to get the cab and front clip to fit on there as you well know. I do like the boxed front frames on those 2nd trucks but I dunno I would've just stuck with a 1st gen frame with leaves and a passenger drop KINGPIN dana 60 instead of that full time/drive flange driver drop ball joint D60 front. And yes, you found out the axles hub to hub are wider on 2nd gens... They also use 3" leaves/spring perches on the back end as compared to the 2.5" leaves on the 1st gen.
The steering on those leaves much to be desired as well with the track bar and all of that monkey motion... The ride isn't any better on 2nd gen coils than a good / new / servicable set of leaves in my opinion.
A lot of guys go out of their way to ditch all that stuff up front on their 2nd gens is all just sayin' maybe you want to consider options while you're ahead and have it all apart.
BTW someone did a wicked nice paint job on the crew... There would've been no way to tell it was originally forest service green unless you pulled it all apart!
You're going to have a lot of fab to do to get the cab and front clip to fit on there as you well know. I do like the boxed front frames on those 2nd trucks but I dunno I would've just stuck with a 1st gen frame with leaves and a passenger drop KINGPIN dana 60 instead of that full time/drive flange driver drop ball joint D60 front. And yes, you found out the axles hub to hub are wider on 2nd gens... They also use 3" leaves/spring perches on the back end as compared to the 2.5" leaves on the 1st gen.
The steering on those leaves much to be desired as well with the track bar and all of that monkey motion... The ride isn't any better on 2nd gen coils than a good / new / servicable set of leaves in my opinion.
A lot of guys go out of their way to ditch all that stuff up front on their 2nd gens is all just sayin' maybe you want to consider options while you're ahead and have it all apart.
BTW someone did a wicked nice paint job on the crew... There would've been no way to tell it was originally forest service green unless you pulled it all apart!
The fab work doesn't scare me, and the frames are surprisingly similar. I've built an entire frame for a crawler and do fab work for a living. I really just have to make room for the top coil buckets and a mount for the front rad support mounts, easy breezy...
On a rock crawler forum I frequent there's a huge debate between ball joints vs kingpins- the consensus is that there are a lot of guys with big power turbo LS1's, 42" sticky comp tires that beat the S out of ball joints and they're just fine. Heck the toughest axle the Dynatrac 60 is balljoint. The kingpin is better for high steer which I have no interest in. I also really like the disconnect axle since I'll be using 4wd on a daily basis. Kind of a weird build as I don't want big tires or a lift, I just don't want to get stuck in Glamis and be able to make it up my driveway with a trailer
I drove a 99 cummins a whole lot for work with this setup and I disagree- it rode a LOT nicer than leaves. But I guess that's my opinion. If anything it has the capability to ride a ton nicer than a leaf spring truck which it will someday.
Eventually I'll re-do the steering, trac bar and maybe run air bags in the front, anything to suck up bumps the better- the road to our new place is 3.3 miles of terrible dirt... Anyway, it seems weird but it fits what I want now (cheap) and in the future (softest ride possible)...
The crew was someone's baby for a long time, the floor is lined with 1/8" rubberized sound deadening- nice truck to start with, and it drove home!
Thanks for the input.
06-05-2010, 01:43 PM
#9
Registered User
That is gonna be a very nice truck.
It sure must be nice to have such a good place to work; I'm still crawling around on gravel and running inside when the rain and lightening gets bad.
I agree with PAPECAT; there are a lot of faults with the later Dodge front-ends.
They absolutely EAT and CHEW UP tires, no matter what you do to try to fix it.
The least little bit of tire imbalance will absolutely drive you nuts.
Those non-servicable/disposable hubs are constantly going bad with little or no warning; BUT, there are aftermarket concerns that have made adapter kits that allow you to adapt to the old style locking-hub with servicable bearings.
Also, it won't be a problem where you live, but those "boxed" frames are purpose-built to catch all the salt and mud, eating away at the frame from the inside-out; I see this all the time at our shop, otherwise decent trucks with the frames about rotted away.
Sorry for all the negatives about the front-end; the rest of the project is going to be really nice.
It sure must be nice to have such a good place to work; I'm still crawling around on gravel and running inside when the rain and lightening gets bad.
I agree with PAPECAT; there are a lot of faults with the later Dodge front-ends.
They absolutely EAT and CHEW UP tires, no matter what you do to try to fix it.
The least little bit of tire imbalance will absolutely drive you nuts.
Those non-servicable/disposable hubs are constantly going bad with little or no warning; BUT, there are aftermarket concerns that have made adapter kits that allow you to adapt to the old style locking-hub with servicable bearings.
Also, it won't be a problem where you live, but those "boxed" frames are purpose-built to catch all the salt and mud, eating away at the frame from the inside-out; I see this all the time at our shop, otherwise decent trucks with the frames about rotted away.
Sorry for all the negatives about the front-end; the rest of the project is going to be really nice.
06-05-2010, 02:10 PM
#10
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Yessir, that's going to be one nice conversion! 
I'm also impressed with the Land Cruisers! They're great wagons, pity they don't sell the diesel version in this country. 
I'm also impressed with the Land Cruisers! They're great wagons, pity they don't sell the diesel version in this country.
06-05-2010, 02:16 PM
#11
When I was pressure washing that frame, I was amazed by how much mud and crap came out of it, and it's not even rust proofed! Well, I hope that with the right modifications it will be a good front end (soft ride is what I really want)... It sure seemed like a good idea at the time. I guess even with serviceable hubs and drive flanges I can get 4WD with the flip of a switch.
06-05-2010, 02:31 PM
#12
Wish it was mine!
06-05-2010, 05:26 PM
#13
I'm going to be following this one, looks like you do great work!
06-05-2010, 06:22 PM
#14
06-05-2010, 07:06 PM
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