Luke S

Fisrt off, I am not a service writer. I wouldn't take that job if it paid 100 grand a year, which it does not. My family owns two new car dealerships, which I help manage. My father holds the title of "dealer", but he is not in the dealership more than 3 days a week so I manage many of the day to day operation in both sales and service.

Luke S

First you have to understand that about 98% of the people who come in our door with any gauges are pretty serious bombers and are pushing their trucks to the extreme. Most of them young men under the age of 25 who run the trucks harder than most. Most of these young men are pretty abusive to their trucks and a good many of them also have some pretty big attitudes. After you have these types of customers coming in and giving you trouble year after year you start to have a little bit of disgust with anyone who falls into the bomber category.

Second. If your truck is stock, I personally see no reason to have to monitor your turbo. We leave all our trucks stock and tow a 48' three car hauler and have never had premature turbo failure due to high EGT's. So from our stand point it is hard to believe someone when they come in with a full set of gauges that isn't modded all to heck otherwise.

As to your last question my answer would be this. If the dealer actually had to remove your A-pillar, in my opinion you should pay them for any extra labor it takes over removing the standard A-pillar grab handle. They are only getting paid to do this to a stock truck. DC does not account for removing a set of gauges when they calculate what they are going to pay us for a warranty job. I would probably agree that 1.5 hours is probably excessive, but I don't know exactly what they had to deal with so I can't be the judge. Same with your wiring, if it HAD to be removed, you should be charged, if not they are just harassing you, find another dealer, there are some decent ones out there.

It is very hard for you guys to understand what we honest dealers actually go through to try to remain profitable, and yes, we are in business to make a profit. You guys all think we are making sooooo much money on all these poor unsuspecting customers. We have about a $3,000,000 investment in our dealerships, and through the first eleven months of this year I think we are in the black by about $50,000 or so. We are doing better than many. Many of the dealers I know are in the red for the year. If you guys had to come sit on our side of the desk for a while and had to deal with the stuff we have to deal with and try to turn a profit you'd have a much different outlook on this stuff.

Foxborough

I agree with you Luke S, well said. I just differ with you on the temperature gauges. I am bone stock and tow a boat that is somewhere around #6500. Transmission helps a lot in city and especially when backing boat up driveway (easly climbs to 200). EGT is nice to know when to back off towing up hills but mostly for shut down (350*). The dealer did question me when I had to drag my boat & truck there on a Sunday when the piston rod went (fair enough). I am sure they looked really good for some other modifications, wouldn't blame them. I only mention this for you and other dealers beacuse my next purchase will be from the dealer in Janesville WI because of their treatment to me. I have to say I could get by without gauges but do not like flying blind. My next new truck I will ask the dealer install gauges. You probably know all this working with cars all day, just thought I'd put my $0.02 in for the day. JMO

Luke S

Ok, I'll give you the tranny temp gauge on an auto tranny. The EGT gauge I can't really see a need for. This truck has been towing like this it's whole life without an EGT gauge and after 300k the engine and tuirbo have never been touched and everything is still working perfect..................


We run a truck like this one also, and get a new one about every 6 months.



I know where most of these trucks are at today and none of them have ever had any problems as a result of high EGT's.

Foxborough

Nice looking trucks, I see your point. I was just inserting my opinion. On the same point if I keep my EGT cooler wont that help the tranny & drivetrain last longer too? I just wish my truck came with tranny & exhaust temps like other models I have seen.

03 ant a hemi

As for a pyro gauge on a stock truck, your right about not needing it if everything is running correctly.
The nice thing about having a Pyro, fuel pressure, boost and tranny gauge is that you can for see most failures before they become major issues.

Your engine should go into limp mode before EGT's get high enough to cause damage to the engine. The mere fact of monitering your EGTs can inform you of when you have a over fuel sitation such as when an injector fails. Also help you pinpoint poor fuel and such.

Boost gauge can help you diagnose intake leaks and time to change your air filter. The filter indicators on these trucks are less then true some times.

Fuel pressure, well as most know when you have a fuel pump on the way out it will slowly decrease your power and milage. This can be curbed at an early stage if a persons readings get lower then normal. Again as for the boost gauge you can also see when you need a filter change if before the normal change time. This will help the dealerships actually see what iis the pump is doing.

Tranny gauge has already been covered. But good info for when to back off the power to keep it with in operating temps.

I am sorry, but for every good dealership out their who has a professional Service department, there are at least 3 others that have less then professional departments.
We gauage a truck by how well it holds up, how much power it has. We gauge a man by how honest he is, by his integrity. We gauge dealerships by how great of service we get from them. They gauge us by guages we have mounted, or the filter we have on.

When it all comes to an end. I wish I could just meet a dealership close by that would look beyond their service bullitons and fix the problem, with in spec untill it breaks next week is not with in any normal spec.

Dieseljunkie

Luke S I agree with you 100% If taking off my gauges to fix a warranty problem was necessary, I would not expect a dealer to do it for free, as it is more involved than taking off the stock a pillar. My truck is stock with the exception of gauges and a straight pipe, and my star dealer (Moss Bros Dodge) has no problems with it, and have only had to replace a lift pump under warranty. When they did replace the pump, they actually upgraded it to the 05 in tank pump under warranty, and had it done in about 5 hours. There are good and bad dealers out there, but just because the original poster put gauges on his truck, and now does not want to pay the tech to remove them, even though its more time consuming, thats something that should have been thought of ahead of time before installing gauges.
Scott

Bonshawman

Lots of good points.

You know what it boils down to ?

The manufacturer. For whatever reason, between Dodge & Cummins certain parameters are set on these enginesand drive train. The manufacturer could make more options available (additional profit to dealerships, too !), like "modest" increases in HP (I run SC on tow/perf), abilities to better load-balance beds, larger exhausts, larger intakes, additional gauges - the "modest" upgrades that many of us have (and pay for $$$). But they don't - so to obtain "better" performance in the variety of uses we have, WE make the changes.

The warranty: At the costs of these vehicles, the dealerships make a profit, and hopefully so does the manufacturer. I won't discuss the US auto manufacturing sector, or the many many reasons that their costs are so out-of-whack. But save-to-say, people in the US buy cars, and people in the business of providing them, and working on them, make a profit, or they at some point can no longer sustain their business. Manufacturers could provide more-inclusive warranties (the after-market warranty business is quite profitable), and wouldn't be so concerned with their "losses" if they built better products to begin with ! Who do they have to blame, but themselves and their suppliers for premature failures ? Manufacturers could better stand behind their dealerships, but they don't - they leave them hanging - that is part of THEIR corporate mentality, and the US auto industry is sure reaping the benefits of THAT philosophy.

Luke S raises good points - the dealerships often get pinched by their manufacturers - no one in "Detroit" is facing an angry customer with a crappy product - it is the dealership staff. The dealership is unfairly treated, the customer is often unsatisfied. The manufactuerer has their money, so....

I own a lot of toys, and I pay a fair amount of money both to dealerships and independents to keep my rigs running. I expect (first and foremost) to purchase a QUALITY PRODUCT for the do-re-me I have plunked down. As I maintain my vehicles to standard, I expect them to keep working for me. When I find that faulty parts or careless installation has caused failure, I get rightly annoyed. I also get annoyed with less-than-honest attempts to take more money by unnecessary repairs or add-on charges.

A lot of these "problems" have their origin with the manufacturer. It is too bad that, for the most part, the pride of workmanship and the trust and integrity of old (like, "my handshake is my bond") seems to have been replaced by the "benjamin". I know that is a blanket statement, but it true in so many areas now adays. Customer Service ? The "customer is always right' ? Not so much anymore. The old time mechanics knew their stuff - now it is all computers and build sheets and recall notices and power plants that one needs a degree in mechanical engineering to even look at ! We talk to parts people that often have no idea (if it "isn't in the book" or "in the computer" they have no idea) - the world has become too complex. We have made it that way.

In this case, Luke S is correct in his belief that if some after-market item has caused increased work for the dealership, the vehicle owner should compensate. If, however, there is no relationship, then perhaps a more "customer service" oriented dealership should do the work. It is often inconvenient, and certainly time-consuming. But it is the world, alas, we have made for ourselves in this dog-eat-dog get-the-last-dollar way so many businesses function today. Does "customer loyalty" mean anything ? Does it have any traction anymore ?

Call me old fashioned - but what does "value" really mean anymore ? Do we all really feel we are getting what we pay for ?

tiebox

Boy, today would not be a good day to take your truck into Luke for warranty work, Yikes!

Luke S

Why not? I'll work on anybody's truck. Doesn't bother me. However, I am becoming increasingly concerned about what all the people out there modifying there trucks that don't need to be but are doing it anyway are going to do for all the other consumers. Dodge is getting very testy about warranty on diesel powered rams, as well they should be in my opinion. And I know there are guys on here that say they only have gauges to monitor their stock engine, but let me tell you from experience that 98% of the guys that come through our doors that have gauges have done a bunch of other stuff as well, as well as participating in sled pulling. I can go to the local truck and tractor pull in September and see 25 trucks compete that I personally sold new.

You guys can slice it any way you want. I am fully convinced of this though, if you leave a truck completely alone as far as modifications, leave it at factory specs, service it per the manufactures recomendation with OEM parts, don't pour hombrew concoctions off additives in them, and don't participate in truck pulling your truck will last longer. I really don't understand the obsesion with moding a truck anyway. As much as these things cost, and as much as they cost to fix, I wouldn't do anything except what the manufacturer says.

wexman

Well, I am one of those guys. Exactly why I did it. IMO, a boost gauge should be standard on any non-NA vehicle (my mothers '88 RX-7 Turbo did, for goodness sake).

As for EGT and tranny - I have reached 1300* WOT uphill in my truck, not towing or loaded. So yes, I want to see my turbo temp.

I hear what you're saying Luke, and I tend to agree - however, there are those of us out there who are otherwise stock.

spankdog

Hey Luke, what about after market intakes? I have an AEM Brute Force and ditched the muffler. Is that going to cause me hassels if I go in for warranty work? I dont have gauges or electronic power adders but Im starting to wonder if the dealer is going to be biased just because of those mods.

Luke S

Aftermarket intakes? Personally I don't like them, but I won't deny warranty because of one. The reason I don't like them, is that most of them I see never get serviced the way they should. I got a truck in the shop right now that has some aftermarket breather with an oiled filter that looks as if it has been following a combine around in a field. There again, the majority of the people I see putting these on are the young guys, and they are looking for performance and loud whistleing turbo's, they don't give a hoot about filtering quality. Now, lets say we have a turbo problem. Turbo's are restricted parts, gotta call the star hotline to get one. Whats the first question they ask the tech? Does it have an oiled filter or any airbox mods? I tell my tech's never lie, tell them exactly what you see. We are not going to risk charge back or losing our franchise cause some guys wants to take chances with his $1500 turbo. Straight pipes? Are you kiddin me? If I hassled guys over straight pipes I wouldn't have any customers!

I have a standard response for when a potential truck buyer ask's me "What about a chip or intake? Will it void my warranty?". I tell em this. It's your money, its your truck. You do what ever you want, but if it were me, I wouldn't touch it. These things cost waaaayyyyy too mcuh to work on if you are picking up the bill. Is a little extra seat of the pants and some stupid black smoke worth possible thousands of dollars in repair bills to you? I won't tell DC what is on your truck unless they ask me, and if they do I am not gonna lie. I don't see how I can be more fair than that?

I can pull the loads in the pics I attached above with the newer trucks fast enough to get a speeding ticket. Why do you need more power than that? Is getting 1 or 2 more MPG from a chip worth the risk of losing engine warranty on a $12,000 engine?

I guess the last thing I will says is this, and this is only my opinion for what it is worth. After this post I am dropping out of this topic as it is a losing battle. Dodge warranty's these trucks to if they are run within their specs, after that, in my opinion, you don't have a leg to stand on. You change filtering quality, you add fuel, you change boost, timing, whatever, you better be prepared to be on your own. Magnusson-Moss doesn't say you can make your 325hp stock truck run at 400hp and still have warranty. It says you don't have to use OEM replacement parts on to keep warranty, but it doesn't say you can put on parts that the truck never even came with that change it's specs and keep warranty.

You guys, not any one of you in particular, but as a whole the bomber crowd is burning their own bridge. Dodge wouldn't make us and in turn you jump through so many hoops if people were not trying to screw them out of warranty they shouldn't be paying. I bet you we've done $100,000 worth of warranty this year on diesel pick-ups that should not have been done. I can think of one new mega cab dually in particular that in it's first 10,000 miles had a new clutch, flywheel, transmission, transfer case, a couple injectors, and now it looks like it might need a turbo. The guy who owns it owns a company that sells chips, and he tells his customers none of the stuff he sells voids their warranty by the way.

Shovelhead

I also had to remove my gauges before the dealer would do a (non-warranty) AC repair that involved removing the dash.

No biggie.
They didn't want to accept the responsibility that my gauges might get damaged, or the wiring/plumbing might not be reconnected properly.
I personally don't see a problem with that.
Even if your gauges are on the A-Pillar, the wiring and such is still run under the dash.
Just one of the things associated with making what started out as Dodge's perfect truck, MY perfect truck.

03 ant a hemi

I agree to the point of not modding your truck. Changing the performance of your truck should void your warrenty. Any reasonable person should know that.
In my case where my truck has had problems from the get go, The dealerships give me the run around, then I find out that they have unquailified mechanics, then I find out the part was known for the problems.
IE lift pump, injectors, clogging air filters, bad rear ends. Only to be told everything is with in spec.
That knocking you here is normal, that ticking of your valves is normal, the fact that your truck went from 19-20mpg down to a high of 12-15 is normal. The rear end hopping aroudn on you is normal.

Now as far as I am concerend with my dealings with DC and most dealerships is they are more crooked then the guys bringing in their trucks with mods on them.
**** If i could get my truck back up to around 18-19 on highway I would be happy.

I know your edn of it, the local dealership hates me, they cringe everythime I go in their.
Not really my fault I get mad when I spend $42,000 on a truck+ tax, and interest. Only to have it run marginally after the first 4000km.
The time I loose taking it in to have it looked at.
The cost of power steering flushes, to rid my system of 12 micron contaminanets, even though the pump is making noises of grinding. All to follow the BS that the some dealerships call service work.
It is called ahh We really cannot handle doing our job so we will pull out the flow chart and not look at the obvious.

the bottom line to me is, I am not asking for a miricle. It was night and day when my truck rolled over 60,000 km and the basic warretny was done, and my extended wasnt showing up on the computer. Yes you need a new PS pump, flush, going to be XXXXX amount of dollars. Isnt that covered under warrenty. Oh no. I have the extended warrenty.
Next thing I know I require a flush only. then it acts up agian and they replace the pump, back to the same situaion again, pump going again. Same BS.,

Fix my truck, that is all I am asking from DC, send the reginal rep to take a look for himself.

I will not pay money for some mechanic to check my a/c to leave the caps off it and have them lost, I will not pay a guy to check my pump only to not reconnect the fuel line fittings tightly after wards.
If I wanted to loose parts and let things leak I would do it myself. Great system of professionalism by some.
The dealerships that suffer are the good ones. I have faith that one day I will find a good dealership that will finally fix my truck properly, unfortunatly it will be after the warrenty is up and I pay another $10,000 to them.