Thinking about going back to gas
03-08-2006, 10:55 AM
#16
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With the 4.56 gears you won't have any trouble towing the load, especially at low altitude, but I really doubt that you'll get 8-9 MPG. More like the 6 MPG in FMB's calculations. Figure in the hit you'll take on the trade, and the Cummins starts looking real good. I agree with the guys that said get different tires, let out some air and keep your truck!
03-08-2006, 11:14 AM
#17
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It all depends on how much your going to tow. I had a Chevy s-10, little 4 banger, 5 speed all that. Did great got around 30 mpg to work and back and could tow a trailer (5x8) foot, and two quads. Sure it took 2 miles to get up tot 65 but it would do it and it did get worse millage.
He's looking for what would be more economical towing some of the time. If you tow a super heavy load, or tow a lot, definatly diesel. But if your gonna commute and only tow every now and then, i'd go gas. not having to worry about pluging in, diesel geling, hard starts, no cab heat for like 10 minutes, expensive maitence, stuff like that, it really does add up (not to mention the 5K sticker for the CTD).
It's hard to say if I was going to sell my CTD and buy a gasser. If you were talking about buying a truck I'd say gas, cause then your already 5K lower in price than the CTD and you would save, but to trade in now, you may not save. I do love the Power Wagon. But like others have said throw on some 285's, or Nittro makes a 295 (wider) and put a locker up front (believe they do have them for the 9.25 axles) and you'll go on the beach no problem. Also if your really worried, buy a set of cheep steel rims off e-bay and some wide tires (like the claws, something like 13.5, sure they'll rub at full turn but you'll get on the sand no problem)
I used to run 33x12.5x15's on my bronco and I could go out in 2 wheel drive no problem. It weighed in at 5400 lbs (a lot lighter than the diesel) but it did good.
But then again, money is money, if you want to spend it on something else it is all your choice (as many say don't, if money is a issue, then yes) Your call all we count as is some half diesent advice (still better than the others)
He's looking for what would be more economical towing some of the time. If you tow a super heavy load, or tow a lot, definatly diesel. But if your gonna commute and only tow every now and then, i'd go gas. not having to worry about pluging in, diesel geling, hard starts, no cab heat for like 10 minutes, expensive maitence, stuff like that, it really does add up (not to mention the 5K sticker for the CTD).
It's hard to say if I was going to sell my CTD and buy a gasser. If you were talking about buying a truck I'd say gas, cause then your already 5K lower in price than the CTD and you would save, but to trade in now, you may not save. I do love the Power Wagon. But like others have said throw on some 285's, or Nittro makes a 295 (wider) and put a locker up front (believe they do have them for the 9.25 axles) and you'll go on the beach no problem. Also if your really worried, buy a set of cheep steel rims off e-bay and some wide tires (like the claws, something like 13.5, sure they'll rub at full turn but you'll get on the sand no problem)
I used to run 33x12.5x15's on my bronco and I could go out in 2 wheel drive no problem. It weighed in at 5400 lbs (a lot lighter than the diesel) but it did good.
But then again, money is money, if you want to spend it on something else it is all your choice (as many say don't, if money is a issue, then yes) Your call all we count as is some half diesent advice (still better than the others)
03-08-2006, 12:34 PM
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There is another reason to stay with the CTD also. The Diesel will have much better resale value down the road. I haven't researched the truck market since I bought mine 8 months ago, but I'd say that a brand new Hemi Ram would be worth less than your 4.5' CTD within 5 years.
I agree that Diesel prices are crippling right now. But I bought my truck with the knowledge that it would still be running strong 10-15 yrs from now. That alone is worth the money out of my wallet now. (and the smile on my face everytime I mash the gas pedal down
) Maybe a Hemi Ram will last that long too, but I'd much rather put my faith into the mighty Cummins. Just my .02
I agree that Diesel prices are crippling right now. But I bought my truck with the knowledge that it would still be running strong 10-15 yrs from now. That alone is worth the money out of my wallet now. (and the smile on my face everytime I mash the gas pedal down
) Maybe a Hemi Ram will last that long too, but I'd much rather put my faith into the mighty Cummins. Just my .02
03-08-2006, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by PWT05Dodge
(and the smile on my face everytime I mash the gas pedal down )
)Diesels do not have a GAS pedal.
They have a fuel pedal, Go go Pedal, smoke pedal, wallet sucking pedal, but not a Gas Pedal (not sure if I spelled pedal right or not) 
03-08-2006, 02:32 PM
#21
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Power Wagon
I Like The Looks Of The Power Wagon. And It Brings Back Memories Of My 77 Power Wagon.
But As For Fuel You Wont Save Any While Pulling A Trailer With That Hemi!
And When It Comes Down To It The Power Wagon It Comes With Smaller Rear Ends And Front End. Now The 9 1/4 Front Is Plenty Tough For The Lighter Wieght Of The Hemi.
When It Comes Down To It You Cant Beat The Pulling Durability Of The Cummins. My Little Brother Does After Trading His 05 Ctd On A Gasser.
Stick With The Ctd. The Hemi Wont Do It For You On Your Trips To The Dunes.
But As For Fuel You Wont Save Any While Pulling A Trailer With That Hemi!
And When It Comes Down To It The Power Wagon It Comes With Smaller Rear Ends And Front End. Now The 9 1/4 Front Is Plenty Tough For The Lighter Wieght Of The Hemi.
When It Comes Down To It You Cant Beat The Pulling Durability Of The Cummins. My Little Brother Does After Trading His 05 Ctd On A Gasser.
Stick With The Ctd. The Hemi Wont Do It For You On Your Trips To The Dunes.
03-08-2006, 02:59 PM
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I traded a 2003 2500 with the Hemi for my present 2004.5 CTD. I pulled a car hauler enclosed trailer about 7000# from Denver to Las Vegas last year and there were times I got passed by the Big Rigs going up some of the hills. I traded a (Ferd) Diesel for the Hemi because I felt like you, but I was very disappointed with the performance of the Hemi, when it came to towing. My Hemi did have 3:73 gears, but it would only pull 6 miles to the gallon when pulling. I also pulled the same trailer to Kansas and the truck had to shfit into 2nd gear when I was headed home fighting a head wind.
Larry
Larry
03-08-2006, 05:07 PM
#23
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Thanks for the great responses guys, keep it coming. A couple of things I should point out:
1. A couple of you mentioned trying bigger tires on my present truck, I'm already running 315/70/17 BFG All Terrains on H2 wheels. Haven't aired them down, but I really don't want to have to do so (nor should I have to) just to find a decent spot to camp. Didn't have to on either of my two previous trucks, shouldn't have to now ('01 Silverado 1500 regular cab,4x4 Z71, 5.3l, 265/75/16's, 4.10 gears, and an '01 Superduty crewcab 4x4, V10, 315/75/16 Pro Comps, 3.73 open differential) That's right, the undergeared Ford with open diffs went places the CTD can't get a whiff of! (just how heavy is that Cummins anyway?)
2. I'm pretty confident in my estimate of 9-ish mpg pulling this load with a PowerWagon, the aforementioned undergeared Ford gave me a consistent 9 mpg on the same trip, and the combination of 3:73's' big tires, and a gas engine guaranteed that the only time it'd hold OD for more than about 30 seconds straight was when I had a tailwind, was going downhill, or both. I'm thinking that the 4:56's on the PW will enable it to stay at least a little closer to the fat part of it's powerband than the Ford did.
I'll be taking a PW for a test drive saturday morning, I doubt they'll let me hook up the trailer and really test it's towing capability, but it can't hurt to ask.
1. A couple of you mentioned trying bigger tires on my present truck, I'm already running 315/70/17 BFG All Terrains on H2 wheels. Haven't aired them down, but I really don't want to have to do so (nor should I have to) just to find a decent spot to camp. Didn't have to on either of my two previous trucks, shouldn't have to now ('01 Silverado 1500 regular cab,4x4 Z71, 5.3l, 265/75/16's, 4.10 gears, and an '01 Superduty crewcab 4x4, V10, 315/75/16 Pro Comps, 3.73 open differential) That's right, the undergeared Ford with open diffs went places the CTD can't get a whiff of! (just how heavy is that Cummins anyway?)
2. I'm pretty confident in my estimate of 9-ish mpg pulling this load with a PowerWagon, the aforementioned undergeared Ford gave me a consistent 9 mpg on the same trip, and the combination of 3:73's' big tires, and a gas engine guaranteed that the only time it'd hold OD for more than about 30 seconds straight was when I had a tailwind, was going downhill, or both. I'm thinking that the 4:56's on the PW will enable it to stay at least a little closer to the fat part of it's powerband than the Ford did.
I'll be taking a PW for a test drive saturday morning, I doubt they'll let me hook up the trailer and really test it's towing capability, but it can't hurt to ask.
03-08-2006, 05:19 PM
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Buddy- pleeeease don't do it. Granted, that PW is one sweet truck. I for one would LOVE to see first hand what it can really do in some serious off roading. If towing was not an issue, sure it would make sense to go gas. But lets face facts- gas is gas is gas... that motor is certain to get tired pretty quick pulling a decent load. and dont forget- that HEMI runs on 4 cylinders some of the time- just like my Neon 
03-08-2006, 05:21 PM
#26
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9 mpg is optimistic.....especially out west with the big mountains.
Empty the Hemi gets 13-15mpg with the stock 3.92....towing with 4.56 is going to only make it worse.
Resale will better than a regular HEMI, but not as good as the CTD.
Empty the Hemi gets 13-15mpg with the stock 3.92....towing with 4.56 is going to only make it worse.
Resale will better than a regular HEMI, but not as good as the CTD.
03-08-2006, 05:57 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by RamWheelsBy4
I traded my 2003 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi auto with 3.92 gear in on my 2004.5 2500 QC 4x4 CTD auto 3.73 because of towing issues. Hauled a small station wagon on car hauler, trailer load about 6,000lbs, probably 1200lbs in the truck & bed back from Colorado. There were times I did not think I was going to make it up a grade with out going to 4hi 2nd gear and 15mph. I was already not happy with the Hemi, marketing guys got me on that one. But that was the last staw, traded it in four days later.
Fuel costs are just totally unkown so that is really hard to justify one way or another. I will admit that if you are going to be doing a lot of off road use the CTD is very challenging to say the least. I have had many 4x4s setup for off road use, all gassers and the first things always were lift if needed, gears if needed and specifically get the right tires for the conditions. Tires do make a big difference.
I just don't think the Hemi has the power and longevity to handle a Power Wagon that tows heavy or is loaded heavy. Just my .02.
Fuel costs are just totally unkown so that is really hard to justify one way or another. I will admit that if you are going to be doing a lot of off road use the CTD is very challenging to say the least. I have had many 4x4s setup for off road use, all gassers and the first things always were lift if needed, gears if needed and specifically get the right tires for the conditions. Tires do make a big difference.
I just don't think the Hemi has the power and longevity to handle a Power Wagon that tows heavy or is loaded heavy. Just my .02.
03-08-2006, 06:02 PM
#28
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Sorry but towing anything at 80/85 is not hummm "mature".The Cummin engine alone is right at 1000 lbs.Then heavier axels,bigger transfer case,tires,brakes etc.My limit is 70 and usually in the 65/68 range.
03-09-2006, 06:53 AM
#29
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Are the Hemi's really that bad on fuel??
I'll be 100% honist, had a 98 dodge ram, quad cab (the backwards style doors) 8 foot bed, 4x4, auto tranny and the sweet 488 V-10 gas engine. running around empty I could hit 13.5 on the high way/city (I drive a mix) then when I towed around 5,000-7,000 lbs trailer (enclosed trailer 2100 dry, then add in 55 gallons of water, 55 gallons of gas 3 fourwheelers, dirtbike, 1/4 cord of wood, grill, 5 ice chests full of meat and ice, 15 gallons of drinking water, ect, lots of weight) I would only average 8-9mpg. I'm not making the numbers up and I could problably find my recipts for you guys with the millage and gallons logged. I do understand with the 4.56 gears it would be higher, but like he stated, with lower gears the engine will work less to pull. Sure it'll rev higher, but dosent it also have a 5 speed transmission??? So even if it has higher gears the tranny makes up for it. (not 100% sure on the 5 speed, but I thought it did) so it may turn good numbers.
And again if he's not towing all the time, maybe every other weekend in the summer, or less, why use the Cummins. Sure you may have to down shift on hills to pull them but not everybody is like us needing 6,000 horse power to pull a jet ski up a hill at 102 miles per hour I really like the idea of the power wagon, lockers, sway bar, it's one nice ride. If it had a cummins I would have bought one for sure. maybe if they come out with a 4bt cummins that has 280 HP 420lbs torque I'd buy one. Why not, I don't pull that heavy of a load with my cummins, don't need all that power.
Just my humble view
P.S. Ford kept going in the sand cause it wanted to keep going so it could be it's previous life once again...... as a boat anchor
I'll be 100% honist, had a 98 dodge ram, quad cab (the backwards style doors) 8 foot bed, 4x4, auto tranny and the sweet 488 V-10 gas engine. running around empty I could hit 13.5 on the high way/city (I drive a mix) then when I towed around 5,000-7,000 lbs trailer (enclosed trailer 2100 dry, then add in 55 gallons of water, 55 gallons of gas 3 fourwheelers, dirtbike, 1/4 cord of wood, grill, 5 ice chests full of meat and ice, 15 gallons of drinking water, ect, lots of weight) I would only average 8-9mpg. I'm not making the numbers up and I could problably find my recipts for you guys with the millage and gallons logged. I do understand with the 4.56 gears it would be higher, but like he stated, with lower gears the engine will work less to pull. Sure it'll rev higher, but dosent it also have a 5 speed transmission??? So even if it has higher gears the tranny makes up for it. (not 100% sure on the 5 speed, but I thought it did) so it may turn good numbers.
And again if he's not towing all the time, maybe every other weekend in the summer, or less, why use the Cummins. Sure you may have to down shift on hills to pull them but not everybody is like us needing 6,000 horse power to pull a jet ski up a hill at 102 miles per hour
I really like the idea of the power wagon, lockers, sway bar, it's one nice ride. If it had a cummins I would have bought one for sure. maybe if they come out with a 4bt cummins that has 280 HP 420lbs torque I'd buy one. Why not, I don't pull that heavy of a load with my cummins, don't need all that power.Just my humble view
P.S. Ford kept going in the sand cause it wanted to keep going so it could be it's previous life once again...... as a boat anchor
03-09-2006, 07:56 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by hammajamma
I don't understand people who tow at 80/85 mph and then complain about fuel prices and fuel mileage.The hemi-with 410 gears will pull the load decent at 55/60 mph, if you have to tow at 80 with cruise set,then stay with the ctd