Squidward

I'm thinking about trading in my '04.5 CTD for a Power Wagon. I know that I'll never get the same kind of fuel economy out of the Hemi, particularly when equipped with the Power Wagon's 4.56 gearing, but there's a couple of things that have me really thinking hard about making the change. First of all, the extra 50 cents a gallon I'm paying for Diesel fuel pretty much negates any savings I get with the diesel's better fuel economy, (I've done a pretty thorough cost analysis on this)and second of all, the CTD is an absolute pig in the soft sand, probably the worst of any 4x4 I've ever driven. I think that's due to a combination of overall weight, weight distribution (nose heaviness), and the crappy "limited slip" rear differential.

Anyway, the big question here for me is how much worse will the Power Wagon be at towing? My son and I make the trip from Phoenix to the Buttercup Sand Dunes a couple times a month, hauling a 7x16 dual axle cargo trailer with a couple of Quads and all our gear in it. Total loaded trailer weight is probably about 5000 lbs, well below the Power Wagon's towing capacity, and certainly no challenge for the Diesel. It's a little over 200 miles one way to the Dunes, almost all flat, with just one fairly small hill on the way. With cruise set at 80 mph, I get about 11.5 mpg with the Diesel, and it pulls this load without ever coming out of OD. I figure to run the same speed in the Power Wagon I'll probably get no more than 8-9 mpg, but as I mentioned earlier, I'll also be spending 50 cents less per gallon, and when we arrive I'll be able to pretty much drag that trailer anywhere I want to camp, rather than just cross my fingers and hope my truck doesn't bury itself 10 feet off the pavement (again)!

So I'm looking for some feedback here, will the PW be able to handle this load without constantly downshifting/unlocking from OD, (I've got to think the 4.56's will help here), or will I be spending the whole trip kicking myself for making the switch, while I listen to the Hemi screaming along at 4000 rpm while struggling to keep up with traffic.

I realize this is a Diesel truck website, and I may be setting myself up for some grief looking for advice on this subject, but I'd like some input from fellow DTR resource members on what direction to go.

Mod_Is_Better

noooooooo! Diesel prices tend to go in cycles in the Summer they tend to be cheaper or about the same price as regular...in the winter they tend to go up to the price of Premium.

This year has been real screwy because of Katrina...but remember diesel was a good 50 cents to $1 cheaper then gas in the middle of the huricane crisis

Jmac

Sounds to me like another part of your problem is getting stuck. The PW will be easier in the sand as you mentioned. Any chance you can take the PW for a day long test drive and actually hook up to your trailer and see for yourself how it pulls?

My .02

Jamie

guyssets

Well, here is what i can tell you.
I had an 02 CTD, and traded it in for an 05 Hemi 4X4 with 4.10 gears. I tow with the disney show i am on, a 7,000 - 10,000lb 5th wheel every week of the year. I wanted to secuity of a warranty, and was guaranteed by the dealership that the hemi would take care of my towing needs. My first trip with the new truck, from CT to TX, i averaged an astounding 3.5mpg.
Yup, you read right. For 6 weeks, i drove across tx and around, and averaged a total of 3-5 mpg from week to week. I was so furious with my dealership at home, i called my lawyer who told me i was kind of out of luck. I was duked, and after being told i needed to install a chip, exhaust, and intake, i would be able to pull my trailer. So, i added a banks exhaust, (really nice sound but not correct fit for my year straight from banks), a hypertech chip, and K&N filter and intake assy. Only high test, and requiring the highest level on the chip, i increased my average mpg over a 6 week time period to 4-5.5 MPG. During all of this, the employee pricing started, so my truck value went into the toilet. Fowler Dodge in Oklahoma City OK, is where that truck ended up residing after i was required to make a 12,500$ down payment to cover the depretiation of my 05 3500 Hemi 4X4 quad cab with add ons.
I now have the 05 Quad cab. CTD, 4X4 6.5' BigHorn edition, with RoadArmor Stealth front awaiting shipping. I have no problems towing my 5th wheel, with full load, and 2 people in the cab, and still average 10.5-13MPG on flat or over hills at 70mpg or so.
I love the look of the power wagon. I like the functionability of it, but for towing anything, after seeing the output of the hemi, and all of the aggrivation and cost i had to lose with it, i would say dont bother.
I dont believe the weight rating of the hemi to ctd was too much different, only 1500lbs or so i believe. (i could be quite wrong)
Well, hope i was able to give a hint of helpfulness.

roguesteelhead

Not here in Southern Oregon it has been more spendy for a couple of years. Squidward you are not the only one out there. I have the truck of my dreams but almost $3.00 a gallon compaired to $2.40 for is about to put me over the edge. The differance don't pencil out. and mine is paid for.

daniel

here in lex , ky diesel and unleaded are the same price 2.49 and diesel was 2.29 about 2 weeks ago. i would stick with the ctd. i had a 5.2L(not a hemi, i know) and it wouldnt handle my horse trailer that good so i got my ctd and i love the way it pulls i even notice a difference pulling my little four wheeler trailer. keep the diesel, just my .02

FMB

Hey Squid, I did a simple spreadsheet to see what the $$ say. I used Diesel prices at $2.80/gal and Gasoline at $2.30/gal, but just about any figure would do as I was only looking at a $0.50/gal difference.

For mileage, I used your CTD @ 11.5MPG (at 80MPH) and the Wagon @9.5MPG (your estimate at 80MPH). I also through in a CTD @ 13MPG (my estimate if you do 70MPH and a Wagon @ 6MPG (almost as bad as guyssets).

200 mile trip
Vehicle - - - CTD - - - Wagon - - - CTD - - - Wagon
MPG - - - - 11.5 - - - - - 9.5 - - - - 13 - - - - - - 6
Fuel Price - 2.80 - - - - 2.30 - - - 2.80 - - - - - 2.30
Gallons - - 17.39 - - - - 21.05 - - 15.38 - - - - 33.33
Cost - - - 48.70 - - - - 48.42 - - 43.08 - - - - 76.67

1000 Miles
Gallons - - 86.98 - - - 105.26 - - 76.92 - - - - 166.67
Cost - - - 243.48 - - - 242.11 - - 215.38 - - - 383.33

(what a pain to type dashes, but it won't allow multiple spaces)

So, all that to say this; your CTD @ 11.5MPG will spend the same as a Wagon @9.5MPG with gasoline at $0.50/gal cheaper (pretty much what you found too). That is IF you get 9.5 with the wagon; Guyssets gets a lot worse but he is pulling a heavier load. If you end up with his milage, you will be paying an extra $56/RT.

It seems like it isn't going to be cost effective to go to the wagon. If there is water available at the dunes, maybe you should purchase one of those water bladders to put in your truck's bed. Travel there empty (why carry the extra weight) and fill it up for a front to rear ballance when you get there. That may take care of your weight distribution.

Think about letting some air (a lot) out of the tires for a bigger footprint on the sand, and carry a diver's tank of air. The tank should be modified with a regulator to fill your tires before you go back onto the highway. Or you can bring a compressor.

Just some thoughts....

coolslice

I also live in Lexington, Ky and I can't remember when gas was more than fuel.... I've had my truck since May of 04 and diesel has been higher every since, even during the hurricanes. If I were on the market for a new truck I'd go gas without a doubt. Just wait until ULSD hits.. The reasons for buying diesel over gas are wearing thin IMO.

Hounddog

I don't care if diesel was a $1.00 more.After towing and driving a disel NO WAY would I go back to a gas burner for towing etc.YUK!

Ridiculous

i SO agree! i just love my truck too much and here in NE fuel is a whopping $2.71 and gas is only like $2.39 or something like that. it really ticks me off but i just like my truck too much, and i'm gonna wait these prices out and work harder for the $$$ i guess!

runamuk

With all that has been said about the Powerwagon it is still anemic as compared to the Diesel with any gear ratio.

I purposfully built my Ram as close to Power Wagon Specs and still have the CTD. I want nothing but the best and if the best will not do then I'll find something better.

I tow 5-6k daily and I was looking for a truck able to handle that. Don't get me wrong the Powerwagon is a very nice and well equipped truck but when I tow I want my CTD!

The Powerwagon with 4.56 gears you could get 12 mpg all day long. I regularly get 16.7 mpg while towing a trailer as you described.

Short story I want a Powerwagon with 4.10 gears and a CTD!

Rick

wdbates

I have had some of the same thoughts but for other reasons.. Diesel here is about 40 cents higher than reg fuel BUT my complaints other than the cost is that I get tired of waiting for a diesel pump at the local truck stop. When I finally get to the pump the diesel nozzel is covered with fuel and I get to stand in a puddle of diesel when getting the fuel. Unlike many of you My dodge gets about 13-14 local and 16-17mpg highway. I could live with a gasser 3/4 ton that costs about 12k less and gets about 2-4mpg less per gallon But I wouldnt have to wait for a pump to get fuel. I am also dissapointed with Dodge when it comes to customer support and the Dealership I bought from is just as bad. Vibration, deth wobble,rear brakes locking up,leaking coolant,poor milage,4x4 that is almost as good as my old Ford with the locker rear end, interior smelling of diesel to the point wear my wife wont ride in the truck are just some of the problems my neighbor and I have had since the purchase of our 05 trucks. I hate to say this but I wish I had bought the Ford 3/4 ton gasser I was considering before the getting the Dodge.

surfram

I think trading for a Powerwagon would be a big mistake. A decent set of ATs in 285 or larger will really increase your offroad performance in the sand. Aired down to 15-18 psi, I have had no problem going anywhere I want to on the Delaware beaches or the northern outerbanks. Check my gallery for pics.

06Cummins

heres what i think...for one the hemi is going to be a pig on gas even with the .50 cent savings. NO hemis that i know of get good gas milage atall. I have a buddy that has a 04 QC 4x4 that gets 10 to 11 around town and that is on a 1500. A heavy duty would weigh more. Also you have to look at the cost aspect. Lets say you do really well and get 30,000 for your CTD but you would prob really get 27-28ish or even worse trade in. The PW prices out to around 42-43K depending on equip. So lets say you get 8-10K off the sticker and you pay 32-35 for the truck with tax add another 2,000 dollars. Your looking at paying a difference of anywhere from 4 to 11 or so thousand dollars to get the PW. That money can buy a lot of diesel and set that truck up to handle the sand better....just my .02..Jason

RamWheelsBy4

I traded my 2003 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi auto with 3.92 gear in on my 2004.5 2500 QC 4x4 CTD auto 3.73 because of towing issues. Hauled a small station wagon on car hauler, trailer load about 6,000lbs, probably 1200lbs in the truck & bed back from Colorado. There were times I did not think I was going to make it up a grade with out going to 4hi 2nd gear and 15mph. I was already not happy with the Hemi, marketing guys got me on that one. But that was the last staw, traded it in four days later.

Fuel costs are just totally unkown so that is really hard to justify one way or another. I will admit that if you are going to be doing a lot of off road use the CTD is very challenging to say the least. I have had many 4x4s setup for off road use, all gassers and the first things always were lift if needed, gears if needed and specifically get the right tires for the conditions. Tires do make a big difference.

I just don't think the Hemi has the power and longevity to handle a Power Wagon that tows heavy or is loaded heavy. Just my .02.