Rolngthun

My first post.
I have been a Chevy guy my whole life. But I also have been a diesel tech for 20 years. So I had to give the Cummins engine a try.
I like the smooth power. I like the heavy duty axles, though I can't understand why they got away from Dana. It is quiet. It got 23 mpg this weekend on a trip, got to love that.
But it viberates and growls 50 to 62 mph. It is in the steering wheel and the throttle pedal. It is like running a chainsaw. It will put your hands and feet to sleep. SHort trips it is livable, but a long trip drives me nuts. I just don't like it.
It also smells like it has a fuel leak if it sitting still idleing. In the cab.
This is the first diesel I have owned. But I work on them daily and have never noticed this vibration test driving other trucks.
It is a 04 extended cab, long box, automatic, HO, 3500, single rear wheels. 1000 miles on it right now.
Oh and it sometimes surges for a few miles with the cruise on.
Before I go to my dealer, who I'm not likeing right now due to a disagreement on where the oil level should be in the rearend.Have you other guys expeirenced this vibration thing? Or do you guys consider this as to be normal? This week I will get a bud of mine to drive it, since he has had several Dodge trucks with the diesel, and has an 02 right now.
I thank you guys for any thought and input.

bulabula

Hey Rolngthun, welcome aboard. Has it snowed there yet? Can't say I have the vibs in the steering wheel or throttle, but wish I had that 23 mpg!

The oil smell at idle is normal with some types of fresh oil and will subside with some miles on it. I found that Rotella has the same odor, but Delvac does not.

As far as oil levels in the diffs, I thought if you did the math on oil level range(s), and that if you filled it to the hole you'll be ok. Thats what I did on mine and I'm not looking back nor worried about it. Others may disagree, I don't care, its my truck.

I don't recall any surge with the cruise control, but you may want to check if your trucks' ECM has the CO2 (I think thats it) safety recall accomplished.

Keep driving it, let her break in some more.

I think you'll find this site invaluable.

ps. fill out your profile on the bottom of the page on what you've got on the truck.

FiverBob

Welcome, there, Michigan man - - welcome to the hangout. Good stuff here and lots of help when you need it.
My 03 had vibration when new. Rebalanced the front wheels and it was gone. I could feel it in the wheel also. Hopefully it is nothing more than that. I sure like my truck - - great ride for a big truck.
Bob

DodgeRamCO42

You're a diesel mechanic, and I just bought my first diesel, and know from nothing about them, although I'm learning. So, I can't offer any advise.

The purpose of this post is just to say that I now have 6500 miles on my 2003, and have not experienced any of the problems you described. I absolutely love my truck. Hope your problems clear up.

Pickle

Vibration that you describe and at that speed strongly suggest that you have a tire-balance problem (at least). Get it to the dealer quickly and have a mechanic test drive it with you.
As for the fumes, that is not right either. You should not smell that; exhaust, yes, fuel, no.

RobG

There has been some talk about the vibe problem over on TDR, but I thought it only affected earlier '03 trucks. I have a late '03 and it doesn't vibe at all. Well okay I do feel something VERY slight, but it's so slight that I never noticed it until I read about people complaining. But I still don't really notice it anyway. Maybe I got luck ('bout time!) and mine doesn't have the problem.

I suspect if it's not tire balance as somebody else suggested (and it likely isn't), there must be a motor mount issue. What else would send the same vibe through the wheel and the pedal? Okay, there might be other things, but it's my guess.

I do wish I got 23 mpg though. I have yet to get better than 11.5 in any condition (and I don't use the trip computer to figure this out). Only 1700 miles so far though.

Rob

doug

Hey Rolngthun, welcome abord! You'll want to know that some dealers are not well educated on the axle fill levels with the new AA axles.

no worries, though, you can follow the owners manual and agree with bulabula, myself, and others all at the same time. no kidding, the spec is a quarter of an inch below the fill hole, but the acceptable range is +/- 1/4". So fill yours to 1/4" below + 1/4" and you're both within spec and right at the bottom of the fill hole. very cool.

Sounds like your other problems need to be adressed with the dealer soon. I have some growling noises myself that only occur at low rpms and moderate power output. sounds like something rattling to me.

good luck.

ramguy

The local Dodge dealer in my area is experincing rear end problems with many of the 03s "ring & pinnon".FWIW
They have changed out several of them.

ramguy

Rolngthun

Thanks for all the replies.
No snow just yet. It was below freezing this morning. And snow is in the forcast. It won't be the kind of snow that sticks around though, little early yet. The 23 mpg is off the consel, I don't know how accurate that thing is. Plus it was steady highway 55 to 65 mph.
I did fill the rearend up to the fillhole. Originally the level was so low I could barley reach it with my finger. There is some fine metal on the plug, but it appears to be break in type metal, as of now.
I thought I found something, the output yoke on the transfer has some play in it. I checked the nut and it was tight. So either it is normal for that case or there is something more severe then a loose nut. It is not alot of play, but enough to feel and see when you grab it and try to wiggle it. SO if any of you guys have ever tried that, let me know how tight yours is.
I will rebalance the tires, that is easy enough and I won't have to deal with the dealer.
Ramguy, I just have a feeling inside that I may end up finding the rear end to be my problem.
Bulabula, the truck is bone stock for now. I want to get past this other stuff before any mods. My dealer wants to void my warrenty as it is, if they see me put a plow on it. It don't have a plow package, which is a higher amp altenator, and a skid plate for the transfer. For some reason Dodge sent all the plow package trucks south, like Texas. They could not find one anywhere close to me. I can just hear some guy in Texas,
a what plow package?
Again, I thank you kind guys for the replies.

joel

Rolingthin - that oil level in the diffs is correct. Mine was also low, had a dealer (different from where I bought it - closer) top it off so I didn't wear the gears. A few days later, I took it out to my dealer to document it in the truck's file and the service manager showed me a just released document from STAR saying that the axles could be up to 1" or so below the hole - about the reach of my little finger stuck in there. He thought it was strange, too since we're all taught to fill to the top of the hole. He said topping it shouldn't cause any problems with overpressure or anything but if so, they'll take care of it.

kayjh

[quote author=joel link=board=17;threadid=20270;start=0#msg190939 date=1064936640]
Rolingthin - that oil level in the diffs is correct. Mine was also low, had a dealer (different from where I bought it - closer) top it off so I didn't wear the gears. A few days later, I took it out to my dealer to document it in the truck's file and the service manager showed me a just released document from STAR saying that the axles could be up to 1" or so below the hole - about the reach of my little finger stuck in there. He thought it was strange, too since we're all taught to fill to the top of the hole. He said topping it shouldn't cause any problems with overpressure or anything but if so, they'll take care of it.
[/quote]

I think your service manager is wrong. AAM has issued a bulletin on this stating the correct fill level is below the fill hole. They also state that overfilling can cause excessive "foaming" of the diff fluid. Foam, of course means that air is mixed into the lubricant, which can result in a reduction of lubricant between the meshing surfaces, not the increase people are looking for.

I'm not an expert, so I look to AAM who is. If they say the max fill level is 1/4" below the fill hole, I can't understand why the dealer (or anyone else) would want to put more fluid in the diff!

Just my $.02 worth.

doug

[quote author=kayjh link=board=17;threadid=20270;start=0#msg190948 date=1064938412]
I'm not an expert, so I look to AAM who is. If they say the max fill level is 1/4" below the fill hole, I can't understand why the dealer (or anyone else) would want to put more fluid in the diff!
[/quote]
maximum fill level is right at the bottom of the fill hole, per the owners manual. this is for 9.5" front and 11.5" rear axles. the correct (in spec) fill level is expressed as the range from "at the fill hole" to "one half inch below the fill hole".

The reason you want to put more fluid in the diff is to optimize lubrication during severe driving conditions, including offroad, and to marginally increase cooling efficiency. The goal is to put "more in" and still be "in spec". Absolutely, these goals are defeated if the fluid foams, but thats the purpose of spec limits. Those of us who top off our diffs are only prefering to run our trucks at the upper spec limit.

rjweiss

Rolingthun

I too experience the diesel fumes in the cabin. Here is the response I got from Cummins on that issue.

"To: Ron Weiss
Subject: Re: RQST00000185951 - 2003 Ram diesel fumes

Summary: 2003 Ram diesel fumes
Solution:
Thanks for your Email message.
Fuel odor is somewhat normal for diesel engines during operation, especially
during the initial break-in period. Unless the odor is excessive with large
amounts of black smoke, then some corrective action may be required. With
the Dodge truck, there may be some chassis/cab issues that need to be
addressed by your Dodge dealer.
In the Dodge Ram application, the cowl seal located between the rear edge of
the hood and the cowl panel may need to be checked for integrity. Diesel
engine oil vapors, which develop during normal engine operation, exit the
engine through the engine road draft vent tube. The heavy oil or fuel-like
odor may leak past an opening in the cowl seal and enter the passenger
compartment through the HVAC system. This may occur more frequently if the
vehicle is at a stop with the engine running, and the HVAC system is being
operated in any mode other than _Re-circulate_.
ANY OPENING OR VOIDS IN THE COWL SEAL SHOULD BE CORRECTED. VERIFY THAT FULL
CONTACT BETWEEN THE HOOD AND COWL SEAL IS PRESENT ALONG THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF
THE SEALING SURFACES. PAY PARTICULAR ATTENTION TO THE SEALING INTEGRITY AT
BOTH ENDS OF THE COWL SEAL.
Diesel engines are 'compression ignition' engines, which means that there
are no external means to ignite the fuel and air mixture, except by
compressing the fuel/air mixture to create enough heat to promote combustion
of the mixture. The compression ratio for the diesel engine is currently
around 14 to 1 and gasoline engines for example are about 8 to 1. Since
gasoline engines are spark ignited, they have less compression ratio, where
the diesel must 'compress' the fuel/air mixture into a smaller space to
create enough heat to initiate ignition.
Light loading operation can lead to carbon buildup on pistons and piston
rings, which can cause some 'blowby' out the breather tube. The only other
reason would be 'dirt ingress' through the air intake system. One handful
of dirt is enough to cause significant wear on the piston rings and on
handful of dirt can accumulate quicker than expected through a dirty air
cleaner or a hole/crack in any piping from the air cleaner to the
turbocharger.
The engine in the new vehicle is very new, and the piston rings may have not
had a chance to 'seat' yet, and some cylinder pressure is getting by the
rings into the crankcase, which is what we call 'blowby'. After you get 1000
or so miles on it, the engine needs to be 'worked' to create some cylinder
temperature. If the engine is operated with only light loading, it can take
up to 30,000 miles to 'seat' the piston rings.
We would suggest that you give the engine a good workout, by loading the
truck, driving in the mountains or pulling a loaded trailer and make the
engine create some exhaust temperature. This will help burn off the excess
carbon to allow the rings to seal better and the oil drip or vapor should
diminish. It may be difficult to eliminate the drip completely.
Here is what we have shared with others about engine break-in:
_What is the recommended break-in procedure for my new Cummins engine?_
Cummins does not publish a specific time or mileage threshold that provides
when an engine is considered to be _broken-in_ since our engines are used in
such a variety of applications and purposes. Here are some general
guidelines to consider when breaking-in your new engine:
INTIAL BREAK-IN PERIOD = 1000 miles or less. During this period, the piston
rings may not have had a chance to _seat_ yet, which allows cylinder
pressure to pass by the rings into the crankcase, causing _blowby._ After
the initial break-in period, the engine will need to be worked to create
high enough cylinder temperature to seal the piston rings, which helps
prevent _blowby._
Vary the engine speed so the entire vehicle, as well as the engine, becomes
accustomed to varying speeds, loads, rpm, etc..
For on-highway, automotive applications, operate the engine at 1500 to 1800
rpm in high gear for the first 80 to 160 kilometers (50 to 100 miles).
However, DO NOT idle the engine for more than five (5) minutes at any one
time during the first 160 kilometers (100 miles).
MID BREAK-IN PERIOD. After the first 1000 miles, the engine is ready to be
worked, which will help seat the piston rings to avoid blowby and avoid
carbon buildup to avoid fuel _slobber_ because of light load operation. If
possible, drive in hilly or mountainous areas OR load the truck with 700 -
800 lbs OR pull an empty trailer (tandem car-hauler type)*.
*NOTE: If you use a small single axle trailer, some load on the trailer is
recommended.
Certainly everything with a new truck will 'loosen up' after 40 or 50k
miles, including the engine, wheel bearings, brakes, etc. etc. We doubt
that the engine torque or power will increase much, however. With light
loading, the engine can take as high as 30,000 miles to be considered
'broken in'.
We thank you for your interest in Cummins products. Please let us know if
you need assistance in locating the nearest Cummins-authorized Dealer or
Distributor Service Provider.

I know my seal between the hood and the cowl is wide open, the hood doesn't even touch the bottom weatherstripping.

Good Luck

Love the Cummins

Ron W.

Rolngthun

Very intersesting info RJ, thank you.

nailzsn

Rolnqthun,
I had the smell for the first couple thousand miles. I have 3200 now and do not remember smelling it for a while. I do not have the vibration and would be insistant with the dealer that it be addressed. Mileage is 17.5 empty at 70 and 11 towing 8000# 5er.