funcruise

I had an old 92 2500 truck that had the frame cut and extended 48 inches. There was about 300K miles driven after that with no problems at all.Mostly loaded miles. If welding is done right there should be nothing to be concerned about. If still nervous than take it to a welding shop and have them look at it and see what they say...

Mocho

Most of the problem isn't the fact of it breaking. It's the fact of how your modifying the truck, and the owner should be made aware of it beforehand, I for one wouldn't let anyone close to my truck with a welder, ask most welders they will refuse to weld on the frame of a vehicle. The proper way to weld the frame includes heat treating it, by heating up the metal prior to welding and controlling it cooling back down, which I can be 99% sure the dealer didn't do. If that isn't done it will make the metal around the weld weaker, sure it might never break, but it is weaker.

Rednecktastic

This is crazy because my buddy had the part the track bar bolts to fail on the axle side.... Welds broke. He ended up through a fence and barley popping a tree that stopped him... It was pretty obvious the carnage started before he wrecked it since it like yanked loose the brake lines and some other stuff and left a debre trail behind. he said the compter flipped out and applied the brakes thankfully(I didn't even know that happens). He said the wheels wouldn't steer but that the body would just like try to move off the frame it felt like when he turned the steering wheel.

Anyway..... The dealer wouldn't weld on the axle and actually wanted him to buy a new axle since he has like a little 2 inch lift on it I guess they blammed it and didn't cover it.

They got a good fabricator to weld it up. Also this guy is one of the best field goal kickers in the nation and it would have been a shame to see him get hurt.


This was on a 4 door jeep wrangler that's probably only a year or 2 at the oldest.


Yeah my dad would weld gears too in his machine shop if a machine went down. He's even welded up the bull gears in his big dozer (I have now) and it's fine.

Mocho

Something like that, it's to big of a risk to weld back up. I would claim insurance and they would write it off, might cost you more, but it's a lot safer, it failed for a reason! There is a reason any frame damage, truck rolls etc insurance writes it off.

mini14

im going to have to sell my dump trucks now, im too worried about catastrphic frame failure due to improper metal tempering,,now that i think about it, i have never seen a dump truck that hasnt had its frame welded somewhere to accomodate the dump hydraulics.

Mocho

I guess some people just do not get it, yes I know bigger trucks get welded on all the time, but it's completly different.

Ace

Among my hobbies are building race cars and modding my 1st Gen. It's kind of a race truck/toy, that also performs my hauling and daily driver duties. I have lost count of how many things I have welded onto the frame of that truck. It's carried over a ton of gravel in the bed and hauled my ~6klbs. car trailer many times with aplomb. Welding can be tricky and you have to know what you're doing, but it's basically used for joining metal, which in the case of frame repair and modifications is entirely common and acceptable. Done correctly, in many cases the welded portion will be stronger than the original.

But this, I'd be worried about - ***** dealers:

CTD NUT

Mocho,

I think you might be getting the frames on our trucks confused with a big truck frame. No welding can be done on some big truck frames because of the alloy. On some medium to high strength alloys, there can be a massive change in temper when welding is done that is sometimes not possible to remove regardless of whether it is quenched or annealed. The temper can be destroyed in the heat-affect zones of the welded areas on some of these treated alloys.

To my knowledge - and anyone else actually knowledgable on this subject, the Dodge Ram frame is not made out of one of these alloys and there is no evidence from anywhere or anyone that these frames are actually annealed after initial welding at the factory - read: no "heat treating". This implies that there is a minimal heat-affected zone that will likely have only a nominal change in temper where the filler metal meets the base metal on the alloy used on these frames. In other words, where the fusion of filler and base metal exists and around the heat-affected zone, the temper change is not significant enough to warrant any type of stress-relieving in the application. So, weld away! There are many over the road applications for vehicles, trailers and equipment that are made out of conventional alloys that are of all welded construction with no after treatments of any kind and are perfectly acceptable when engineered properly.

None of what I stated has anything to do with poor craftsmenship or welding ability or knowledge. If a repair is executed properly on one of these frames, there is nothing to worry about. Regardless of the alloy and after treatment, there is no substitute for doing things right.

Peterbilt

There is a spec that specifies how to weld and drill the frame. For example, you can't drill on the top or bottom frame. Drill on the side has to be withing a spec and distance between holes. Don't recall on the welds. May be in a TSB.

Pete

cbrahs

copied and pasted straight from Dealer Connect for our trucks pertaining to frame repairs


WARNINGS
WARNING: Chrysler Group engineering’s position on the use of heat during collision repair is as follows:
Any body panel or frame component damaged which is to be repaired and reused, must be repaired using the “cold straightening” method. No heat may be used during the straightening process.
During rough straightening prior to panel replacement, damaged panels or frame components may be heated to assist in body/frame realignment. The application of heat must be constrained to the parts which will be replaced and not allowed to affect any other components.
This “no heat” recommendation is due to the extensive use of high strength and advanced high strength steels in Chrysler Group products. High-strength materials can be substantially and negatively affected from heat input which will not be obviously known to the repairer or consumer.

Ignoring these recommendations may lead to serious compromises in the ability to protect occupants in a future collision event, reduce the engineered qualities and attributes, or decrease the durability and reliability of the vehicle.

This statement supersedes any previously released information by the Chrysler Group.

Failure to follow these instructions may result in serious or fatal injury.



Use eye protection when grinding or welding metal. Failure to do this could result in serious personal injury or death.

Before proceeding with frame repair involving grinding or welding, verify that the vehicle fuel system is not leaking or in contact with the repair area. Failure to do this could result in serious personal injury or death.

Do not allow an open flame or heat and metal spatter from arc welding to contact plastic body panels. Fire, explosion can result causing serious personal injury or death.

When welded frame components are replaced, ensure that a complete penetration weld is achieved during installation. If not, dangerous operating conditions can result.

Stand clear of cables or chains on pulling equipment during frame straightening operations. Failure to do this can result in serious personal injury or death.

Do not venture under a hoisted vehicle that is not supported on safety stands. Walking under an unsupported vehicle can result in serious personal injury or death.

1500 series Dodge Ram Trucks (2002 and later) are not designed for snow plow equipment. The front collision repair tips must not be installed on any truck equipped with a snow plow, or even intended to be equipped with a snow plow.

Do not reuse damaged fasteners. The quality of repair would be suspect. Failure to use only production fasteners or fasteners of equivalent hardness can result in loosening or failure of the part. Do not drill any holes in the frame that are not specifically outlined in this, or in other Chrysler procedures as frame rail failure can result causing serious personal injury or death. When using heat to straighten frame components, do not exceed 566°C (1050°F). If temperature is exceeded, metal fatigue can happen and result in serious personal injury or death.

mini14

now im seriously worried.

dropped2500

Did you see that..."NO PRE-HEAT". As for the insurance company totaling the truck you are way off again. They dont just total vehicles just cause you want them to an if you tell them you dont want them to fix it then i guess you get a broken truck in your drive way! I only know this cause i deal with it EVERYDAY! If only you saw what happened behind closed doors ! An we are a fairly highend shop, go behind closed doors of a hole in the wall shop!

Mocho

Actually I do know, I use to go to salvage auctions and fixed up vehicles and got them recertified. Do you want to know the first thing the shop told me when I bought the truck in? If you touched the frame with a welder, don't waste our time because we will fail it, and it should be labeled PARTS ONLY. I know what it takes to write off a vehicle, and one huge weight is whether or not the person wants it written off. A simple control arm mount ripped off the frame, written off. Some shops might fix things like that, but it says a lot about what kind of "patch work" they will do. The fact that MOST bodyshops don't know their head from their a$$ and can't put a frigging windshield wiper on right, who would want to trust them welding on a vehicle anyway?

I really don't care what that says, anyone who looks into the material and how welding affects it would know there is no room for error and VERY few shops have people who are qualified to do it.

I've seen what body shops try to pull off and my dad and bother both had to take back their trucks 4+ times, because the body shop couldn't figure out how to do simple repairs. That is the reason no body shop will EVER touch my truck.

Things are changing, people are thinking because someone with "aftermarket" parts has something welded it's ok. Look at how many track bars are welded together, the first time commercial vehicle enforcement seen that, it would be pulled off the road.

I know some things are different between Canada and USA but it's still pretty close i'm assuming.

Give it a few years though, that's what i'm going for, heavy duty tech and then commercial vehicle enforcement, but I guess I don't have a clue what's legal and what's not, but in a short time I will be the one inspecting trucks for illegal modifications. I guess some people will find out the hard way their aftermarket track bar is illegal and have a nice tow bill

dropped2500

Yea actually if you would like i will take pictures of my certificates for frame rail welding and autobody welding. An maybe for auctions its different but at our shop we do all of geicos repairs and they have an office at our shop. An i will tell you for a fact that if a customer comes in and says i want my vehicle totaled they will laugh at them. An it doesnt matter what the customer or insurance company says, if the manufactuer says you can weld on the frame then you can, if they say you cant touch the frame with a flat tip scre driver then you cant. An i hope you never get into a wreck cause if you wont take it to a body shop then i guess you will have a wrecked truck in your driveway! hahaha

Mocho

If my truck gets in a minor accident it will be fixed by me, did it before and pocketed $2,000 from their insurance, and had it fixed in a afternoon and looked like new, much better then any body shop work i've seen! If my truck gets into any major accident it will be written off, case closed, and it could sit in my driveway broke for a year, and I will be racking up miles on their rental and a lawyer will be dealing with them, at their expense Insurance company doesn't have much leverage when THEIR customer wrecks your vehicle, worst case scenario you refuse it for problems 20 or 30 times. Vehicles are never the same, and I won't have a truck I payed good money for patched back together because some idiot can't drive. Trust me, when a idiot backed into my brothers truck, his first words were "I'm sure glad for his sake you didn't drive, or that would be your truck", and because of that, my brother sold the truck because it's just never the same, no thanks!