ron717

I need a 4Wd for wear I live, and also need it to drive 200 miles per day x5, plus an additional 200 miles on the weekend.

I'm also 6'4", and there is little that I fit into comfortably. The Toy was a big mistake, VW will never get me past my driveway. The Ram or the F250 seems the best thus far, and if I get 20mpg, its a heck of alot beteer than 15mpg in my 4runner.

I had a VW diesel in 01 model year, excellent car and plenty of room, but not practical for wear I live.

Granted the axle spins all the time on the front axle (Ram), but with the manual shift on the fly, how reliable is it and what maintenance is required? Also, how reliable is the 6speed manual?

y-knot

I think if I had to drive that much each and every day, I would DX the Dodge and get myself a nice Subaru WRX or STI. Hey, it has 230 or 300 HP depending on which model you choose, 4 wheel drive, a much better sound system, and will get 20 mpg easy. You might as well have fun it you are going on the road that much. Hell, any one can buy a Dodge or Ford pickup, they are a dime a dozen. This thing will get you where you need to go, and do so in style, plus it has to be more fun to drive then a over sized dumpster on wheels. You will still get to have your turbo, hear it wonderful sound, put have some real performance. Diesels are slow, I don't care what anyone does to them, they will always be slow, they weight over 7,000lbs. Heck live a little, you have plenty of time to get a diesel when you retire, like the rest of these old farts on here. Then you can hitch it up to a 15,000lb trailer, run all over the USA getting 9 MPG, and trying to convince others you are having fun. So what have we learned? Drop the Tuttle, and run with the hire!

Berak

Ahh, No. Full time 4WD is FULL TIME 4WD. I've never seen any manufacturer claim full time AWD and then say, EXCEPT for that little lever / **** to engage the transfer case. Full time 4WD automatically entails a transfer case with a viscous coupler or something similar to allow it to be run on any surface.

You can have your manualy locking hubs everyday, all the time. I'll take my always lubed ever ready, less high stress parts to fail, military proven PART TIME 4WD system.

ron717

True, but keeping the vehicle beyond 200k is an issue as well. I can't afford to buy new cars every few years. Also, I had an outback back in 96, and had a difficult time driving through 3 feet of fresh snow 4am in the morning before the plows arrive.

I commute from the woods of NE PA to NYC every day. The diesesls are excellent with less maint than gas, at least my 01 VW was. Hopefully the Dodge truck will last and perform very well with few headaches.

spots

Okay I got it. Move to NYC and you don't need a vehicle at all. TAXI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
lol j/k

1sttruck

The biggest problems that I've seen with the Fords are the automatics, where one co-worker was surprised when his needed replacing at 70k miles. He tows a sports car to racing events. When researching the problem I found accounts of people toasting the Ford trannys within 20k miles on a repeatable basis when hauling maximum loads on a regular basis. As far as engines go the Cummins has the reputation for durability when compared to the Ford and Dodge offerings, and it's the reason that I bought a Dodge. I wanted a people and dog hauler, and after seeing smaller SUVs like the Subarus cost as much as my did truck did, get about the same mileage, and deliver about 1/3 to 1/4 of the expected life of my truck, there was no question on what to get. Bigger SUVs got much worse mileage, cost up to over twice as much, depreciated like a rock, and still didn't have the volume that I needed. The family is much more comfortable in the truck than in either Taurus, and a Taurus typically offers more spacious seating than a Subaru. Two friends have bought a Dodge diesel in the meantime, one already has three Chevy trucks, and one friend says that one or two of his friends look like they might too, one of then currently owning a Ford.

ttreibel

I just love Fords Manual locking hubs when you slide into a muddy hole and you were in 2WD get out lock the hubs, get muddy, manually rotate the tires if possible to lock the hub, get back in your truck get it muddy and maybe get out of the mud if you haven't sunk yet.

In Fords defence you do get 2WD low comes in handy backing a heavy trailer up a steep driveway maybe thats why there reverse gears are so tall.

Every Ford owner I personally know has some minor or major fit'n'finish issues with there cars or trucks from dead factory radios to buy back for bad injectors filling there crankcase with oil.

If the door handles are that bad they will be a daily iteam on ebay in a year or two for 25 bucks I guess thats life I will not beet on them and hope for the best.

NJMurvin

I can't comment yet on Dodge build quality, but I've owned a 2000 PSD for just about 2 years. I think the build quality on the Ford will be hard to beat. The engine (7.3L) is as solid as it gets. I had a mild programmer (PPIII) installed which gave me enough performance for what I do. The 4R100 tranny is purportedly the weak link. I have had no trouble but I did have the shifts firmed up by the programmer, I changed the fluid once a year and watched the tranny temp gauge (aftermarket) like a hawk and never saw it exceed 190. My only complaints with the Ford were the stock shocks which I replaced with Rancho 9000s and the paint on the roof was cracked in the water valleys. Other than that, it was a really good truck. The only reason I sold it was that it was too big (long bed SC) for me to use as a daily driver and it didn't have real back doors (suicide type).

stevenknapp

I'd agree, I've always defined full time 4x4 as a mode/option where some torque is sent to the front axle via a differential of some sort. A mode where 4x4 can be used all the time, or "full time". The Dodge setup may not have hubs, but you get either 2WD, or "part time" locked front and rear 4x4. No full time option. This definition has been pretty clear for years.

The Ford auto hubs I've seen have automatic overrides. Or maybe better put they are automatic with manual override. Not a bad deal.

If you're coming out of a toyota, I don't think either will be equal (sorry guys). The Dodge's I've driven have been impressive. The last couple Fords I've had have been VERY well made. I think the Ford is functional but bland. Same thoughts on the Dodge honestly. Personally I'd call them about equal and instead look at your local dealers. If your dodge dealer isn't going to help you with problems, but your Ford shop is great, or vice versa, that should make the decision clear.

Ya, the TDI VW stuff seems a better option. I'd at least sit in one. Very comfy interiors. Espically the Passat.

spots

I had to laugh at this one. Either you are too lazy to manually lock your hubs when you think you might encounter a muddy hole (yeah lots of them along the interstates ) or don't have enough grey matter. If it is the latter pls stay off the roads. Enough idiots out there.

spots

Both companies have junk automatics. The E4OD in the Ford had a huge failure rate. The 47RE didn't fare much better I believe. I have seen some in the shop fail at 25k, other last for 250k (diesel trucks) Some guys know how to drive an automatic, other don't. You don't just get in and go. Seems most people have a friend or whatever that had a problem with brand X. Talk to the Ford camp and their buddies Cummins toasted the tranny, here the Ford guys toast theirs. Garage in garbage out.

Mr.Goat

spots

Your so very correct there are a lot of "idiots" out there. I think the senior member from Florida by making his statement just qualified himself as one of them.

jlasich

I agree with ttreibel so I guess I'm lazy or don't have enough gray matter upstairs. I hate manual locking hubs for the same reason that ttreibel stated and then some. Add in the constant changing of road and weather conditions, especially in the wintertime in the Pacific Northwest, and manual hubs are a much bigger hassle than they're worth. Or just go up into the mountains anytime of the year and it's the same story.

I think Dodge's electric shift 4wd is a much better system than Ford's ESOF. I have that ESOF and that's why I had to replace the locking mechanism. The o-ring behind the locking mechanism in the hub gets dry and will eventually freeze the mechanism or squeeze out of it (Ford neglected to mention it in the maintenance book). The unit comes pre-assembled and the o-ring cannot be replaced by itself, meaning you have to spend $125 for a failed <$1 part. With the Dodge system, there are no vacuum actuators and therefore less that can go wrong. FWIW, I went with the lever-operated 4wd because it is shift-on-the-fly and is mechanically linked directly to the transfer case. Unbeatable in my opinion.

As for build quality, I'd say they are both equal. I've had two problems with my Ford (tranny replaced at 30,000 and driver's side hub locking mechanism replaced at 31,000 [thanks Ford for the great design ]) but it has otherwise been pretty good. It does have some rattles (sometimes) and creaks and groans like crazy when the frame flexes during off-camber driving. I know of several Dodges with over 200,000 miles on them and they don't have one single rattle, creak or groan. Leaf springs are ok, they're simple, but I like coil springs. They offer more travel. I also think Ford could strengthen their frame a bit more. Give me a box frame like the Dodge. All of them (Ford, Chevy, and Dodge) have problems and it just depends if you get lucky.

spots

LOL I had to laugh at this one too. I may live in Florida but I sure as he*l am not old (unless you think 35 is old) Senior member on this site is in regards to posts. Now where'd I put my walker so I can go out and switch my hubs to drive in a muddy alligator hole somewhere. Now if only Ford would buy Cumming(s) again and put the 5.9 in the Superduty....

1sttruck

I'd like to have locking hubs as well as a transfer case for shifting on the fly. I'd like to try putting it in 4wd with the transfer case and then unlocking the rear hubs for front wheel drive with light loads in bad road conditions. If I could only have one so far I'll say that I much prefer the transfer case as I can shift in and out of 4wd as needed, which is how I've used it so far. During the last snow storm the I only had problems when turning off of the road onto some of the unpaved lots with fresh snow, where I would put it in 4wd and go about my business. When I got back onto the road I'd put it back in 2wd. The traction on the road was fine so I'd assume that running in 4wd would have presented problems, and getting out each time to lock/unlock hubs that I pulled into and out of a lot would have been a pain in the butt.