battle with pops.....
03-08-2010, 04:16 PM
#16
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There are no current hybrid that comes close to filling your needs as far as I know. You can respectfully challenge him to show you what hybrid you could buy that would tow anything out to a hunting lease. Is he more interested in getting you to postpone buying a new truck.
The only big downside to a diesel is if fuel prices shoot up again like they have in the recent past. That, in my opinion, is unlikeley, as it would take a shortage of supply AND a robust economy, or possibly more wars, to cause diesel to be in short enough supply to be painfully expensive compared to gas.
As many have posted here, the initial premium of purchasing a diesel can be recovered upon resale. Oil changes are not that bad if you do them yourself, and you can learn how far you can go between changes by investing in oil analysis Fuel filter changes are easy to do yourself.
If you get a 3rd generation 5.9 you can use it for light duty applications without any problems. The ride will be a lot rougher than a Z71 though.
If you want to go offroad you will need to get some MT tires at least 33 - 34 inches tall. These trucks are a lot heavier than a Z71 and need some rubber under them to perform offroad. The extra weight, 2000 pounds, over a half ton gasser makes the truck harder to handle off road.
The new 4th gen trucks will ride better than a 3rd gen, but the mileage is not as good and the emissions controls are not as suited for light duty use.
Welcome. You could do a lot worse than a 3rd generation Cummins.
The only big downside to a diesel is if fuel prices shoot up again like they have in the recent past. That, in my opinion, is unlikeley, as it would take a shortage of supply AND a robust economy, or possibly more wars, to cause diesel to be in short enough supply to be painfully expensive compared to gas.
As many have posted here, the initial premium of purchasing a diesel can be recovered upon resale. Oil changes are not that bad if you do them yourself, and you can learn how far you can go between changes by investing in oil analysis Fuel filter changes are easy to do yourself.
If you get a 3rd generation 5.9 you can use it for light duty applications without any problems. The ride will be a lot rougher than a Z71 though.
If you want to go offroad you will need to get some MT tires at least 33 - 34 inches tall. These trucks are a lot heavier than a Z71 and need some rubber under them to perform offroad. The extra weight, 2000 pounds, over a half ton gasser makes the truck harder to handle off road.
The new 4th gen trucks will ride better than a 3rd gen, but the mileage is not as good and the emissions controls are not as suited for light duty use.
Welcome. You could do a lot worse than a 3rd generation Cummins.
03-08-2010, 05:11 PM
#17
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Well if technology leads away from fuel usage, then it seems that would create less demand for fossil fuels. This should equate to lower prices at the pump. How soon is anybodies guess. I finely decided to get my truck based on longevity, power, and I prefer a strong truck over most other vehicles. Friends and family thought I was crazy and now they tell me what a nice truck I have and they wish they had one. So for me, get what you want an don't let other people decide for you.
03-08-2010, 05:13 PM
#18
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they are a rougher ride due to the solid front axle correct??? i gotta say a big part of it is havin some real metal wrapped round ya my gf has a corrolla and i hate being in that thing (especially when she drives) i like bein able to see 5 cars ahead that are stoppin but i dont enjoy my 12.5 to 14 gpm in my z71 but thats a realitively easy fix for a CTD correct???
03-08-2010, 07:48 PM
#19
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
they are a rougher ride due to the solid front axle correct??? i gotta say a big part of it is havin some real metal wrapped round ya my gf has a corrolla and i hate being in that thing (especially when she drives) i like bein able to see 5 cars ahead that are stoppin but i dont enjoy my 12.5 to 14 gpm in my z71 but thats a realitively easy fix for a CTD correct???
Pretty much. SFA isn't as comfy a design as the IFS is. Dodge is especially good at giving owners a lumpy ride. But that can be somewhat tamed with good shocks, good rear leaf or bags and good coils up front.
I'm a person that favors a ride in the truck over a car any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
As far as mpg, I get better in the Dodge on a regular city average than I ever did on the best highway day in the Chevy.
03-08-2010, 07:51 PM
#20
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
they are a rougher ride due to the solid front axle correct??? i gotta say a big part of it is havin some real metal wrapped round ya my gf has a corrolla and i hate being in that thing (especially when she drives) i like bein able to see 5 cars ahead that are stoppin but i dont enjoy my 12.5 to 14 gpm in my z71 but thats a realitively easy fix for a CTD correct???
Pretty much. SFA isn't as comfy a design as the IFS is. Dodge is especially good at giving owners a lumpy ride. But that can be somewhat tamed with good shocks, good rear leaf or bags and good coils up front.
I'm a person that favors a ride in the truck over a car any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
As far as mpg I get better city average in the Dodge than I ever did on the best highway day with the Chevy.
03-08-2010, 10:14 PM
#21
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Well it's good to open a discussion with you dad and he is looking out for your best interest with the knowledge he has.
Do you need a diesel? Probably not, 60% of us here don't either (me being one of them), do you want a diesel??? You bet, great engines, great trucks, putting load behind them is nothing short of amazing and you have to becareful to watch your weights because you will be WAY over weight before your truck even gives you the hint that your heavy....
OK to back to dad (mines the same way and I am 38 years old
) and if hes anything like mine you need a sledge hammer and a rail road spike to get any of your points to sink in 
....
Hybrid talk... First play his game and look at hybrids, and ask him to try and find something that fits your needs. THEN..
1) look into the resale value of hybrids (it's terrible) after a few years. Point that area out.
2) ask him about the cost of battery replacement when the batteries go out (some of them cost about as much as a new gas engine).
3) ask him about where you get the car serviced when the warrenty is over (that is more reasonible then the dealer charges), not oil changes, but things like tranny work, electrics issues, etc.
4) look into the repair / replacement cost of the large electric motor that powers the car.
5) ask him what happens if the car breaks down in one garage "ho-dunk" town, does he think billy bob will be able to get it back up and running??
Tell him your intentions and ask what hydrid he would purchase???
NOW, take him for a test drive in a newer diesel truck (and let him drive it). Most older people that are not "into diesels" have the mind set that they are noisy, underpowered, smelly, and not realiable. GM had alot to do with that when they "half-butt'd" those gas/diesel engines into some of thier late 70's early 80's passenger cars. I really think that alone killed the US diesel market in cars. SORRY off track....
So after the test drive, he will still be shaking his head no, but you will see a little grin in his face. Ask him what he thinks, he will probably say it's nice BUT..... Tell him you understand where he is coming from, but you want something that has a proven track record for realiablity, show him how these trucks hold resale value better then a gas or hybrid. Also explain to him that if you don't like the diesel choice that you can sell the truck ALOT easier then a gasser.
IF that doesn't work then just do what I have to.... Sit him done, tell him you love him and respect his input but your getting what you want and you would like it if he helped you find one, but if not you will understand.
Fathers (good fathers) only want what's best for thier kids even after they are grown up. Your dad has a point about where the world is heading, if fuel prices ever go back up to $4.99 + a gallon, it takes alot to feed these beast. BUT technolgy isn't there yet for hybrids, the current battery systems offered are crap (heavy and not long lasting). I'm using my "crystal ball" seeing the government getting ready to place a HEAVY tax in hybrid and electric vehicles, because they are not getting the revenue from gas tax on these fuel sippers and they will have to figure out a way to off-set that. Trust me, as soon as they get enough in the market, they will turn the tides on a untapped revenue resource.
Good luck and don't make this debate become a wedge between you and your dad (that's a bond that should never have anything between it), make sure you let him know you respect his input even though you might not always use it.
Let him know that lifes to short to not ocassionally step out on the ledge and take a chance on a thing or two...
Do you need a diesel? Probably not, 60% of us here don't either (me being one of them), do you want a diesel??? You bet, great engines, great trucks, putting load behind them is nothing short of amazing and you have to becareful to watch your weights because you will be WAY over weight before your truck even gives you the hint that your heavy....
OK to back to dad (mines the same way and I am 38 years old
) and if hes anything like mine you need a sledge hammer and a rail road spike to get any of your points to sink in ....Hybrid talk... First play his game and look at hybrids, and ask him to try and find something that fits your needs. THEN..
1) look into the resale value of hybrids (it's terrible) after a few years. Point that area out.
2) ask him about the cost of battery replacement when the batteries go out (some of them cost about as much as a new gas engine).
3) ask him about where you get the car serviced when the warrenty is over (that is more reasonible then the dealer charges), not oil changes, but things like tranny work, electrics issues, etc.
4) look into the repair / replacement cost of the large electric motor that powers the car.
5) ask him what happens if the car breaks down in one garage "ho-dunk" town, does he think billy bob will be able to get it back up and running??
Tell him your intentions and ask what hydrid he would purchase???
NOW, take him for a test drive in a newer diesel truck (and let him drive it). Most older people that are not "into diesels" have the mind set that they are noisy, underpowered, smelly, and not realiable. GM had alot to do with that when they "half-butt'd" those gas/diesel engines into some of thier late 70's early 80's passenger cars. I really think that alone killed the US diesel market in cars. SORRY off track....
So after the test drive, he will still be shaking his head no, but you will see a little grin in his face. Ask him what he thinks, he will probably say it's nice BUT..... Tell him you understand where he is coming from, but you want something that has a proven track record for realiablity, show him how these trucks hold resale value better then a gas or hybrid. Also explain to him that if you don't like the diesel choice that you can sell the truck ALOT easier then a gasser.
IF that doesn't work then just do what I have to.... Sit him done, tell him you love him and respect his input but your getting what you want and you would like it if he helped you find one, but if not you will understand.
Fathers (good fathers) only want what's best for thier kids even after they are grown up. Your dad has a point about where the world is heading, if fuel prices ever go back up to $4.99 + a gallon, it takes alot to feed these beast. BUT technolgy isn't there yet for hybrids, the current battery systems offered are crap (heavy and not long lasting). I'm using my "crystal ball" seeing the government getting ready to place a HEAVY tax in hybrid and electric vehicles, because they are not getting the revenue from gas tax on these fuel sippers and they will have to figure out a way to off-set that. Trust me, as soon as they get enough in the market, they will turn the tides on a untapped revenue resource.
Good luck and don't make this debate become a wedge between you and your dad (that's a bond that should never have anything between it), make sure you let him know you respect his input even though you might not always use it.
Let him know that lifes to short to not ocassionally step out on the ledge and take a chance on a thing or two...
03-09-2010, 06:27 AM
#22
Registered User
I think diesel tech is not dwindling down, but increasing. I read somewhere, (I will see if I can find it again) that by 2025 diesel use in America will reduce foreign oil consumption by 25%. Look at Europe and all of the vehicles with diesel options there. There is a reason for that. Right now, 40% of vehicles on the road in Europe are diesel, compared to here where it is about 4%. There is no way I wouldnt drive a diesel, I thank Ruddy all the time.
03-09-2010, 07:30 AM
#23
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Simple, for your first Diesel, pick up a first gen, Intercooled preferably.
Stupid simple, good mileage, and cheap.
You get your feet wet for less, and learn diesels before the era where it does take a rocket scientist to fix..........
Stupid simple, good mileage, and cheap.
You get your feet wet for less, and learn diesels before the era where it does take a rocket scientist to fix..........
03-09-2010, 09:52 AM
#24
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My Dad was against getting me getting a diesel again. Im 27 but still heed his 60 yrs worth of advice. He said I should get a 1/2 ton but I got a used 08 with 19k on it for the same price as a new 1/2 ton. In the end, I decided it was what I wanted and I make the payment for it.
03-09-2010, 04:22 PM
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he told me today that he drove my old boss's powerstroke 09 i think that has a chip and tuned (thats all i know bout) that it was really fun but its not a matter of fun its practicallity.......i could get by with my half ton and that i only wanted a diesel cuz its big and it sounds good....... i just started laughing and shot some of yalls suggestions at him and he changed the subject hehe ill stay on him and when i find the right deal its on like donkey kong thanks to everyone
03-09-2010, 04:56 PM
#26
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Sometimes you've just got to go out on a limb and do it. I'm 30 and love my Dad to death and he loves me to death back! We get along great but sometimes we butt heads. He was against me getting my truck when I was 27 but I had a good opportunity to buy the truck I wanted and I could afford it.
Not saying anything bad about my Dad but if I'd listened to him I can tell you I wouldn't have my Electrical Engineering degree (school was too far away for him and he wanted me closer), I wouldn't have my truck (I didn't need a truck that big, the little S-10 I had was fine... and it was!), I wouldn't have my tractor (he'd die behind a hoe first), I wouldn't have the list of stuff on my truck below (its fine the way it came from the factory).
We live pretty close together, just down the road, so he gets to see parts and stuff that I've bought laying around so he'll sometimes get onto me about that.
The point with him is that he's probably like my Dad. He loves me so much that he doesn't want to see anything bad happen or any sort of failure to happen. He doesn't want to see me hurt.
The best I can say is try not to hurt your Dad's feelings but if the right deal comes along, its your money, go for it. He'll probably get over it pretty quickly and enjoy it just as much as you.
Not saying anything bad about my Dad but if I'd listened to him I can tell you I wouldn't have my Electrical Engineering degree (school was too far away for him and he wanted me closer), I wouldn't have my truck (I didn't need a truck that big, the little S-10 I had was fine... and it was!), I wouldn't have my tractor (he'd die behind a hoe first), I wouldn't have the list of stuff on my truck below (its fine the way it came from the factory).
We live pretty close together, just down the road, so he gets to see parts and stuff that I've bought laying around so he'll sometimes get onto me about that.
The point with him is that he's probably like my Dad. He loves me so much that he doesn't want to see anything bad happen or any sort of failure to happen. He doesn't want to see me hurt.
The best I can say is try not to hurt your Dad's feelings but if the right deal comes along, its your money, go for it. He'll probably get over it pretty quickly and enjoy it just as much as you.
03-10-2010, 08:03 AM
#27
There is no G. There is no G. Repeat after me, THERE IS NO G!
he told me today that he drove my old boss's powerstroke 09 i think that has a chip and tuned (thats all i know bout) that it was really fun but its not a matter of fun its practicallity.......i could get by with my half ton and that i only wanted a diesel cuz its big and it sounds good....... i just started laughing and shot some of yalls suggestions at him and he changed the subject hehe ill stay on him and when i find the right deal its on like donkey kong thanks to everyone
well....yeah!
"Come on Dad. I'll let you drive it, hmmm??? <jingling keys in front to tempt him>"
Oh, another thing to bear in mind. The costs of these trucks will only go up. Coming from the economy crash many good trucks were/are on the market to be had for great prices. As the economy returns, prices will follow. Not to mention inflation and higher finance rates. Also in regards to supply, as you wait longer the 5.9l has already gone away as far as new production. Now it's 6.7l. So if you're looking for a particular truck chances are better sooner rather than later (later as in years). These considerations are in the larger scope of things to think about. But they were part of my decision to purchase a low mileage, great priced truck.
03-10-2010, 08:22 AM
#28
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If you are dead set on a 3rd gen you can disregard my post but I would keep an eye out for a good condition p-pump 12valve. They are 1/3 of the price of a new one and they keep running without missing a beat. Of all the pump/head configurations, as the years and technologies go by, the p-pump 12v has the least amount of problems. The free mods alone are usually enough to put a smile on your face when you lay into the throttle.
Another thing to think about is what a truck really is, a depreciating asset. Spend $35k today, its worth $10k in 10 years. The 12 valve wont cost you $25k in 10 years unless you get out of hand with modifications. I don't want to sit here and tell you what to do with your money but don't squander it if you don't have to.
Another thing to think about is what a truck really is, a depreciating asset. Spend $35k today, its worth $10k in 10 years. The 12 valve wont cost you $25k in 10 years unless you get out of hand with modifications. I don't want to sit here and tell you what to do with your money but don't squander it if you don't have to.
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