Hudge

alright i have decided to make my first post.....i wont lie i dont have a diesel but i am intent on getting one and my dad is tryin to talk me out of it with his lead arguement being where is technology leading us.....hybrid and gas savers all that direction
i joined the forum to learn more bout diesels how to take care of em what to do what not to do and so forth but i need help now sellin him on one so i dont have to hear it later. im a grown man (24 years old) but he is still very influential in my decisions and any help is welcomed oh and i want a gen 3 5.9 4x4 ya needed to know

.boB

A diesel makes sense if you live at high altitude, or you tow a lot. Otherwise, a gas engine is often cheaper to operate and maintain.

madhat

Welcome to the DTR!

If you don't tow a lot, or haul crap, chances are you really don't need one...

However, you need one!

Are you planning on using it to tow/haul? Or, do you just want it because it's a cummins, and that's a bad mo fo?

PRO's: Very reliable engine. The cummins is a medium duty motor, you can easily put 300k+ miles on one if it is properly maintained.
More power than you're used to.
Possibly better fuel mileage than gas counterparts.
You can bomb it easily.

CON's: Diesel is more expensive.
Some maint is more expensive... (oil changes comes to mind)
Parts can get pricey.
You can bomb it easily.

Hudge

its kind of a double balded sword here i dont get to tow cuz i dont have a "tower" i have a quad and a single axle trailer and am planning on a flat bottom to duck hunt but all of that is fairly light duty...... on the other hand im on the road a lot have plans of being a construction super (possible job towing) and am lookin for longevity. im pretty frugal unless i want something and want that something to last (meaning i take good care of my toys)
im not sure what ya mean by bomb it easily

madhat

Bombing is putting aftermarket parts on to make more power... just modding it.

I bought my truck because I was tired of trying to haul crap with a Z-71 that would not get out of it's own way. One of the best purchases I've ever made.

Hudge

thats what im getting away from is a z-71 i pulled mine and a buddies to the dear lease and back all season through the hill country and it would downshift a lot it had no power. hunting haulin quads stands and feeders and open road would be my main uses. But as stated above my dad is sayin look at where technology is heading its not in diesel motors its in hybrids, so i said find me a hybrid that can tow anything and still have decent mileage

RDM16CTD

How many miles do you drive in a typical year, and how many years do you plan to keep it? From a cost perspective you have to look at the total cost - to buy, run, insure, and resell at the end. It's true you can get better mpg from a hybrid, but that's really not the biggest factor in owning any vehicle (but we notice that cost the most because of buying fuel all the time.....)

My 05 (sounds like the model you are thinking about) gets 16 mpg back & forth to work, 21 or 22 on a long freeway trip. I use it for kind of light duty (for what these trucks are capable of) - daily driver, a small camping trailer in the summer,etc. I change the oil once a year (I do oil samples each year to keep track) so even tho' it takes a lot of oil compared to a gas engine, it's really not any more expensive (figuring the gas would get an oil change every 6 months) - especially if you buy parts smart (like in bulk at Geno's) and do the routine maintenance yourself..

So far as the technology issue - the hybrid technology is being used more in the small and light cars now and not so much in larger vehicles. Diesels have been around 100+ years and aren't going away anytime soon. Even with the 'light' duty (for a Cummins.....) you describe - the truck you want is more suited than a hybrid. I think someday the hybrid technology will make it's way into the truck market (GM has offered a hybrid pickup) but it's not very well proven for how it will do in the long run (I'm not saying it's not going to turn out good - just that there's not a huge experience base yet - try and find a forum with as much help as you find here, for example) and there's maybe a higher risk of trouble and unanticipated expense if you keep it a long time after warranty is out. The Cummins has a solid reputation and you know what you're getting in to - even tho' you read posts here of problems, the vast majority or owners seem to just drive them day after day with no real troubles, and only routine maintenance expense.

It may be that your next truck (8 - 10 years from now?) will be a 'new' technology, depending on how things work out - if they can be shown to last a long time with reliability and few problems areas. Of course I'm not saying our trucks don't have issues because they do (maybe more on the Dodge part of things than the Cummins) but you know what you're getting in to. There are lots of after market options for most things on the Cummins and lots of places to get help, or people to work on it - compared to the hybrids (especially if you go with a hybrid truck right now)

And of course the biggest factor is - are you getting the vehicle you really want and will be happy with? If not you're more apt to be trading and getting something different a lot sooner, and spending more in the long run.

These are the best arguments I can think of 'pro diesel' vs hybrid - hope you find some ideas to help you out. I'm not opposed to hybrids at all - I think they're going to turn out to be the way of the future - but I'm not sure the technology is mature yet, especially if you need a larger vehicle that can do some hauling and towing you are talking about. Cummins is a proven performer.

HMX-1

Well you can easily counter his "technology leading us" arguement with the prototype VW Golf that gets 70 MPG and the entire line of VW TDi cars that get just as good, if not better, mileage that the hybrids do ... most are getting 40 plus MPG and some are getting 55 to 57. BMW's new 325i is a diesel and gets close to 34 MPG. Diesel fuel is also safer than gasoline due to its higher flash point (120 degrees versus -45 degrees).

The Prius is getting 39. Do some research and you can get some really good info to shoot holes in his arguement.

As for towing ... using a diesel for any kind of towing will have benefits. Since they're in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks your weight rating automatically goes up from the half ton gasser, you have more power, less wear on the tranny from constant shifting, improved mileage once you're on the road hauling, etc..



Kris

Grit Dog

If you do your own maintenance and take care or your stuff, like you said you do, the only downside of a diesel is the greater initial cost, which you'll gat back out of it 100%, IMO if you sell it with less than 150k mi. Much over that and everyone starts looking at the rest of the components as they will all wear out, gas or diesel.
So if you have the means to spend the extra $ up front, there's not really a downside.
The extra costs for maintenance can be greatly offset by providing your own labor and extended drain intervals compared to gassers.
I know everyone says their new half tons get the same mileage, but I beg to differ. My 08 F150 work truck gets 11-12mpg all day every day here in the mountains. The 07 Mega gets 16+mpg combined in the winter and 18mpg in the summer. Maybe that spread is closer in the flatlands, but up here, turboed oil burners rule!

Lost Lake

I wanted a used diesel after pulling with gassers for over 20 years.

I looked for a long time to find a used truck and realized I couldn't get a decent diesel with under 100,000 miles for less than $20,000.

I was given a manufacturer's coupon for savings, and bought a 'left over' 06 MEGA at the end of December 06 for $34,500.

I figure if I put 25,000 miles on a year, in 4 years I'll have a truck I can sell for $20,000 if I want to. That's a 14,500 cost for 4 years or about 3625 a year in lost value. That's an acceptable number for me.

You could buy a used truck and improve these numbers.
And like Madhat says, there's a lot to climbing into a bad **** every day and looking down on all the little half-ton Chebbies out there.

Always wanted a bumper sticker that says, "Nice half-ton bud..... Looks like the one my kid sister has! "

Shorts

The guys above said a lot of what I had in mind so I won't bore you with repetition.

I came from a 94 Chevy Z71. I loved that truck and it taught me everything I know about Chevys taking care of MY own truck, I always wanted a Cummins, it was the goal.

If you're keeping the truck for a long haul, a diesel is a great way to go. Taking the quad out to the ranch the truck barely breaks a sweat. Some things you need to consider when taking your case to your dad:

- What kind of maintenance support does the vehicle have in regards to knowledge, parts, and aftermarket support? Being a new owner you have to be confident that you can either work on the truck yourself or you can easily find experienced hands and eyes who can help get you on your way.

- Can the vehicle do the work you want? Will it get you in and out, haul, and all around not let you down or leave you scratching your head as to if the truck is going to wince under pressure?

Every owner has got to answer that for him/herself.

I don't think V8 4wd Chevys are slouches - I'm no hater. When compared to the kind of muscle the diesel will put on, they're just two different beasts. I don't regret my diesel and I'm always pretty excited to put a load on the truck. I know it'll do the job I ask of it.

nelrod

If you end up with a good one, and not one that causes a lot of trouble and money, you will probably never own a gas truck again (If you need it to tow with) -------------------- Hodge, it does my heart good to hear someone like you that clearly respects his Dad and his opinions. Really good to hear someone positively influenced by their father, and will acknowledge it. Good luck whatever you decide. ---------- If you get a diesel, be sure and take some pics of it and show us what you got.

Lost Lake

And how about simplicity? No plugs, wires, ignition coils, distributors, diesels are pretty simple engines.

CD in NM

I would LOVE to see a hybrid go down the road attempting to do what one of our diesel trucks can do. Even at 1/2 the capacity of our trucks there is NO hybrid out there yet that can perform the way our diesel trucks do.

I have seen this 'economy vehicle' stuff come and go over many years of oil and environmental issues, I have many friends who drive those economy, eco-friendly vehicles - they still call me when they need a real truck to do something, and I still tell them to go and rent one - that's the COST they need to pay above and beyond their choice.

I STILL buy the kind of vehicle that puts a SMILE on MY face, enjoying every minute behind the steering wheel as I go down the road. If I financed that vehicle, I gladly would make payments on it to be driving it down the road happy with what I chose to drive regardless of whether it was easier on fuel comsumption or environmentally correct/friendly ormet someone else's value system.

You need to choose the vehicle that will meet your needs, serve your inner self and make YOU happy, not make someone else happy or meet someone elses expectations.

If my Father were alive today, that is what I would tell him - I am the one making the payments and also the one paying all the associated costs.


CD

Hudge

i have a diesel mechanic buddy and another that lives on these kinds of forums plus DTR im not a mechanic but ill figure some way to figure whatever problem out that stands infront of me like i said im frugal as it gets but i know my limits so i do what i can to maintane it myself but thank all yall for the feedback and yall boosted my confidence a lot lol wish i had one sittin out back right now to show everyone haha in due time ultimatly i will make my own decision and i have no crystal ball but i can see a stack shining through my kitchen window already