AC performance mod
07-07-2008, 08:59 AM
#136
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Instead of plumbing into the heater hose, why didn't you guys just screw a street ell into the head and then screw the ball valve with a close nipple onto that? It would make for a more solid installation. Use the same barb fitting and clamp you remove from the head on the other end of the ball valve. Your hose connects to that. I can see maybe rupturing the hoses some cold morning when you are trying to open the valve again.
And more clamped fittings mean more chances to leak.
Parts list. Ball valves cost less at Harbor Freight!!
1 ball valve
1 street ell
1 close nipple
1 roll teflon tape.
I don't have my truck any more, but I can't stay away from the forum. (Miss it!)
And more clamped fittings mean more chances to leak.
Parts list. Ball valves cost less at Harbor Freight!!
1 ball valve
1 street ell
1 close nipple
1 roll teflon tape.
I don't have my truck any more, but I can't stay away from the forum. (Miss it!)
07-07-2008, 09:23 AM
#137
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everything costs less at Harbor Freight and falls apart in my experience. I am not going to risk my Cummins to a cheap valve.
it would be hard pressed to get a valve right next to the head anyway on the pressure side. the distance between the metal tube, which you would have to remove to screw the ball valve into the head, and the head is minimal and a valve would not fit. the plumbing would be (IMHO) crazy and get out of hand.
it would be hard pressed to get a valve right next to the head anyway on the pressure side. the distance between the metal tube, which you would have to remove to screw the ball valve into the head, and the head is minimal and a valve would not fit. the plumbing would be (IMHO) crazy and get out of hand.
07-07-2008, 09:27 AM
#138
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All the old cars used a heater water valve - some were cable and some were vacuum operated. When I was doing auto AC work in the 60s I always checked the water valve condition by putting a thermometer in a diffuser and pinching off the water line with a pliers to prove if the valve shut off tight. In the early years of auto temp control the mfgrs still used a valve and let heater water flow in all the AC modes except for max cool. Then they eventually did away with the valves and did all the temp control with the dampers. Heater cores last longer cuz they don't fill up with sediment and corrode. All engines have a bypass built in somewhere to keep from deadheading the water pump before the t-stat opens. D & F did it with an external hose and C did it with a passage in the water pump. My 12 valve had an ext. hose bypass but I haven't looked at my 03 closely enough to see how they did it on the CR. Also, a lot of t-stats have a tiny hole next to the disc. One valve will stop flow thru the heater core but make sure it's in the supply. There's a LOT of pressure in the block til the t-stat opens and I wouldn't trust a heater core to take that high pressure forever. The outlet of the core is plumbed to the inlet of the pump so the core will only see suction pressure instead of discharged pressure if the valve is in the supply. I wouldn't use 2 valves without a pressure relief to protect the core. Also if the intlet valve leaked internally and the outlet valve sealed tight... there ya are with full pump head on the core. Craig
Craig, please explain yourself a bit on the above statement. if you use 2 valves there is NO coolant going thru the heater core and no way to pressurize it.
07-07-2008, 10:25 AM
#139
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I agree with you on the Harbor Freight stuff, Chris!
Everyone buying cheap low-pressure cold water valves should remember that the parts you add must operate reliably to over 75psi and at least 250*F... as soon as some of these trucks with this mod get to the dyno or the track (or the stoplight wars), we'll start seeing leak reports on the board - unless the pressure side of the coolant circuit is tight! I wouldn't be satisfied with any less than wide-band shielded clamps - buy SS, HD if you can, so that they can be torqued without failing.
It's easy to leak out at 3500 RPM! You won't see it unless you stand there while it's revved.
p.s. Craig was cautioning against an additional valve on the return side of the heater core to prevent full pump pressure from accumulating in it if the supply valve failed (or was opened) while the return valve was closed.
Frankly, however, I should hope that the heater core is designed to handle the pressure, since it's exposed to it during the course of normal engine operation.
Everyone buying cheap low-pressure cold water valves should remember that the parts you add must operate reliably to over 75psi and at least 250*F... as soon as some of these trucks with this mod get to the dyno or the track (or the stoplight wars), we'll start seeing leak reports on the board - unless the pressure side of the coolant circuit is tight! I wouldn't be satisfied with any less than wide-band shielded clamps - buy SS, HD if you can, so that they can be torqued without failing.
It's easy to leak out at 3500 RPM! You won't see it unless you stand there while it's revved.
p.s. Craig was cautioning against an additional valve on the return side of the heater core to prevent full pump pressure from accumulating in it if the supply valve failed (or was opened) while the return valve was closed.
Frankly, however, I should hope that the heater core is designed to handle the pressure, since it's exposed to it during the course of normal engine operation.
07-07-2008, 11:26 AM
#141
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The mfgr always builds in a bypass. Many engines are also used for industrial applications and there's no heater core for bypass. You never ever totally deadhead a pump. A LOT of heat is generated just by a running pump and bad pump system engineering (deadheading) has been known to make pumps explode and take a bldg with it!
It only takes one valve (always on the supply side) to stop the flow and yes you will lose the tempering ability. You can use a cable operated valve if you need that - just like the old cars. Or I guess if you are determined enough you could take the AC/heater box apart and block the mixing damper to full cooling and use that control signal (whatever it is) to operate a water valve. My 12 valve used vacuum servos - what type of damper operators do the CR trucks use?
The supply nipple in the head is probably restricted (if it's like all the others I've seen) to keep from over pressureize the core so if you hardpipe the valve directly from the head, make sure you duplicate that orifice. I think it would be difficult to hardpipe the valve cuz I don't think there's enough room to use an elbow. Craig
It only takes one valve (always on the supply side) to stop the flow and yes you will lose the tempering ability. You can use a cable operated valve if you need that - just like the old cars. Or I guess if you are determined enough you could take the AC/heater box apart and block the mixing damper to full cooling and use that control signal (whatever it is) to operate a water valve. My 12 valve used vacuum servos - what type of damper operators do the CR trucks use?
The supply nipple in the head is probably restricted (if it's like all the others I've seen) to keep from over pressureize the core so if you hardpipe the valve directly from the head, make sure you duplicate that orifice. I think it would be difficult to hardpipe the valve cuz I don't think there's enough room to use an elbow. Craig
07-07-2008, 12:23 PM
#142
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I am planning on doing this and would be using good hose clamps but I keep hearing about using good hose clamps to prevent leaks because of the high pressure yet the factory used those spring hose clamps? wouldn't any screw clamp be better than a spring clamp?
Also, If I were to put a valve on only the pressure side wouldn't the return side kind of drain out leaving hoses/tubing empty and more likely to corrode? Just asking?
Also, If I were to put a valve on only the pressure side wouldn't the return side kind of drain out leaving hoses/tubing empty and more likely to corrode? Just asking?
07-07-2008, 12:33 PM
#143
Registered User
OK, everyone reports lower temps, but from what I've read, the temp measurements are only coming from the driver's side. What about the passenger side vent temps? Are they lowered as well?
The reason I ask is I've noticed on my truck that the passenger side vents are warmer than the driver's side vents, and it's most noticeable after the truck has been setting in the sun with the windows up and I first turn on the A/C. Seems like it takes forever for the passenger side vent air to begin to cool off, when the driver's side vent air temp cools off almost immediately. Anyone else notice this on their truck?
Thanks for any feedback.
The reason I ask is I've noticed on my truck that the passenger side vents are warmer than the driver's side vents, and it's most noticeable after the truck has been setting in the sun with the windows up and I first turn on the A/C. Seems like it takes forever for the passenger side vent air to begin to cool off, when the driver's side vent air temp cools off almost immediately. Anyone else notice this on their truck?
Thanks for any feedback.
07-07-2008, 12:34 PM
#144
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you won't have to worry about drain out on the return side. Like Mike said earlier, get a good quality Stainless Steel wide band clamp. i only had a couple of the wide bands in the shop and will replace the others when i can get to the store to buy more. that is why i have them doubled up. the factory spring clamps are actually pretty strong but you don't want to take the chance of them blowing off.
07-07-2008, 12:37 PM
#145
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OK, everyone reports lower temps, but from what I've read, the temp measurements are only coming from the driver's side. What about the passenger side vent temps? Are they lowered as well?
The reason I ask is I've noticed on my truck that the passenger side vents are warmer than the driver's side vents, and it's most noticeable after the truck has been setting in the sun with the windows up and I first turn on the A/C. Seems like it takes forever for the passenger side vent air to begin to cool off, when the driver's side vent air temp cools off almost immediately. Anyone else notice this on their truck?
Thanks for any feedback.
The reason I ask is I've noticed on my truck that the passenger side vents are warmer than the driver's side vents, and it's most noticeable after the truck has been setting in the sun with the windows up and I first turn on the A/C. Seems like it takes forever for the passenger side vent air to begin to cool off, when the driver's side vent air temp cools off almost immediately. Anyone else notice this on their truck?
Thanks for any feedback.
07-07-2008, 01:43 PM
#146
By doing this mod, does that mean you only get full cold, with no tempature adjustment.
I have to back mine off 4 or 5 click's to make it where I want or it get's too cold. Actually, I have to keep going back and forth. One click either direction is either too hot, or too cold.
I have to back mine off 4 or 5 click's to make it where I want or it get's too cold. Actually, I have to keep going back and forth. One click either direction is either too hot, or too cold.
Can you guy's chime in on this please.
07-07-2008, 01:55 PM
#147
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with the hot water shut off you will not have have temp adjustability other than if you have the ***** set for outside air and blending the outside hot air.
07-07-2008, 04:02 PM
#150
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Cbrahs: In tight quarters I usually take the ball valve handles off, cut off most of them and sometimes (if room) even reinstall them upside down. (just to keep em out of the way). They still turn easy enough but in the closed position they dont stick out very far.
C Schomer Some very good points but the reference towards corrosion or sediment pooling in the core dont concern me since I routinely store my truck for months anyway.
C Schomer Some very good points but the reference towards corrosion or sediment pooling in the core dont concern me since I routinely store my truck for months anyway.