Wont start without Ether
01-29-2011, 05:00 PM
#1
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Wont start without Ether
My truck wont start without ether. I got a code of P0251 and looked up that was for the FCA . I found what that was and replaced it . I have also replaced the Fass fuel filters and have replaced the batteries. Now the code is gone but have the code of P2509 and P1652. Still wont start. If I start it with ether it runs as well as it ever has. Not starting is not just in the AM. The stock inline pump Carter fuel pump is not hooked up and the fuel bypasses the stock filter. Dont know if this is standard.Have looked for leaks and have found none but only checking visually . I have no way to check fuel pressure or injectors. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
01-29-2011, 05:22 PM
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The codes(1652/2509) are both for Communication bus and ecm/pcm power input signal, you may try unplugging and checking connections.
However you stated it starts with ether, that makes me believe your not creating enough rail pressure to fire your injectors. Your cross tubes could be loose and in need of re-torque, rail relief valve or cascade valve on CP3 could be leaking, or worse case scenerio, one or more injectors could be leaking.
You can hear the FASS running, correct?
However you stated it starts with ether, that makes me believe your not creating enough rail pressure to fire your injectors. Your cross tubes could be loose and in need of re-torque, rail relief valve or cascade valve on CP3 could be leaking, or worse case scenerio, one or more injectors could be leaking.
You can hear the FASS running, correct?
01-29-2011, 06:30 PM
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Checked and I do have build up on the fuel lines going to injectors...not sure how to explain so ignorant to this stuff....Have decided to take to diesel guy in another town and have him check out the truck....will update when I have good or bad news...thanks
01-29-2011, 08:39 PM
#5
DON"T USE ETHER! If your grid heaters are not disconnected it can explode in the Intake before it even reaches the cylinder causing major damage.
The use of Ether will also cause other permanent damage to your engine as well, Don't Do it!
The use of Ether will also cause other permanent damage to your engine as well, Don't Do it!
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02-03-2011, 10:14 PM
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1st mechanic said no fuel pressure then next guy I took it to said loosing fuel pressure. Neither hooked up gauges to check pressure????? Now Iam at the point of not knowing what to do. 2nd guy said he needs the truck for a couple of days to see why it is loosing pressure. 1st guy never tightened the tubes to the injectors. What is your advice anyone????
02-03-2011, 10:43 PM
#11
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1st guy is wrong. manual states that every time a high pressure injector line is removed to retorque the high pressure connector tube nuts before reinstalling/replacing the line. Also if he didn;t look up any gauges then how does he know it is losing pressure.
Second guy sounds like he has a better idea what he is doing.
Are you losing prime by chance? Leaking suction lines draining back. (aeration of fuel)
-injector fuel return flow test will tell you if any tubes are bypassing (leaking) crank 30seconds and max allowed is 45 ml returned fuel if engine is running idle one minute and max return rate is 180 ml in one minute
-high pressure pump fuel return flow rate will tell you if pump is good or bad. max return rate is 500 ml for 30 second idling
or a high pressure pump output test. it should flow a min 70 ml in 30 seconds of cranking
-scanner will tell you if you are developing enough rail pressure.
-manual gauges for lift pump pressure checks and low pressure check. low pressure pump should be providing the high pressure pump with somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 psi
Second guy sounds like he has a better idea what he is doing.
Are you losing prime by chance? Leaking suction lines draining back. (aeration of fuel)
-injector fuel return flow test will tell you if any tubes are bypassing (leaking) crank 30seconds and max allowed is 45 ml returned fuel if engine is running idle one minute and max return rate is 180 ml in one minute
-high pressure pump fuel return flow rate will tell you if pump is good or bad. max return rate is 500 ml for 30 second idling
or a high pressure pump output test. it should flow a min 70 ml in 30 seconds of cranking
-scanner will tell you if you are developing enough rail pressure.
-manual gauges for lift pump pressure checks and low pressure check. low pressure pump should be providing the high pressure pump with somewhere in the neighborhood of 120 psi
02-03-2011, 10:43 PM
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p2509
SYMPTOM
P2509-POWERDOWN DATA LOST ERROR
WHEN MONITORED
Continuous - Key on or Key off.
SET CONDITION
Loss of voltage detected at the ECM for a calibrated amount of time.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
* Poor connections at the batteries
* Low battery voltage
* Open fused B+ To ECM
* Open ground circuit
* Battery + shorted to other circuits
* Return circuit shorted
* Battery + shorted to ground
* Intermittent condition
SYMPTOM
P2509-POWERDOWN DATA LOST ERROR
WHEN MONITORED
Continuous - Key on or Key off.
SET CONDITION
Loss of voltage detected at the ECM for a calibrated amount of time.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
* Poor connections at the batteries
* Low battery voltage
* Open fused B+ To ECM
* Open ground circuit
* Battery + shorted to other circuits
* Return circuit shorted
* Battery + shorted to ground
* Intermittent condition
02-03-2011, 10:49 PM
#13
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more p2509
Case Number K24612402
Vehicle Issue MIL. P2509. The engine may stumble or stall out.;12 volt power (unswitched) and the ground circuits to the ECM are good. Batteries and charging system operation are good. If applicable (2006 and 2007 MY trucks), the ECM has already been updated per TSB 18-001-07.
System or Component Die out / Stall,Hesitation / Sag / Stumble;DTC / Error Message;ECM
Recommendation If the problem can be duplicated, disconnect the fan clutch 6-way connector and check if the concern still occurs. If the problem no longer occurs, replace the fan clutch assembly.
Modification Date 01/04/08 9:57 AM
another case
Case Number K65001956
Vehicle Issue Engine Dies At about 2,200 RPM While Driving. Set Codes P2509, P0113, And P0628. Code P0628 Resets. Verify Fuel Lift Pump Operation.;Engine dies out while driving. Mil is on and codes P0113, P0628, and P2509 have set. Codes P0628 Keeps resetting. The vehicles charging system and batteries check ok. ECM and PCM power feeds and grounds are ok. Fuel quality is good.
System or Component Long Crank During Restart,Restarts Immediately - Runs Fine;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Wiring,Battery,Charging System,Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Fuel Pump / Transfer Pump;1500 to 2000,2000 to 3000;Light Throttle,Moderate Throttle;Acceleration;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Volume Low
Recommendation Verify fuel volume. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260. Use a test light or a head light to load test the transfer pump power and ground. Inspect the transfer pump connector pins and crimps. If ok replace the transfer pump.
Modification Date 04/13/04 9:03 AM
another case
Case Number K19621710
Vehicle Issue The Engine Stalls While Driving And Does Not Restart. Setting Code P2509. Verify ECM operation.;The engine stalls while driving and will not restart. Code p2509 is setting. The charging system and batteries test ok. Fuel volume and quality is ok.
System or Component Will not Restart,Engine Cranks;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;ECM,Starting System;Cold Start (After 8 hour Soak),During Warm Up,Normal Operating Temperature;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic manual and perform diagnostics for code p2509. Fabricate a test light using a headlight and jumper wires. Load test the ECM battery feeds, ECM grounds and ECM switched ignition using the headlight. Check the engine ground on the engine block located near the fuel filter. If the ECM power feeds and grounds check ok replace the ECM.
Modification Date 04/19/04 11:32 AM
another case
Case Number K13878564
Vehicle Issue Engine Stalls Out. 'NO BUS' Message Is Displayed. P1652.;Power and ground connections to the Cummins ECM are good. P1652 and P2509 are set.
System or Component Die out / Stall;DTC / Error Message;Electronic Control Module,ECM;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Inspect the wiring harness near the C108 (14 pin) connector. This connector should be at the back of the engine, near the transmission bell housing.
Modification Date 03/17/05 4:25 PM
another case
Case Number K11967108
Vehicle Issue Engine Dies While Driving. Code p2509 Sets.;Engine dies out while driving. Mil is on and code P2509 has set. Fuel transfer pump volume is low. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260.
System or Component Long Crank During Restart,Restarts Immediately - Runs Fine;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Wiring,Battery,Charging System,Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Fuel Pump / Transfer Pump;Target Idle to 1500,1500 to 2000,2000 to 3000;Light Throttle,Moderate Throttle;Acceleration;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Volume Low
Recommendation Perform diagnostics for code p2509. Load test the batteries and charging system. Clean tighten the ECM, fuel transfer pump ground stud on the engine block located near the fuel filter.
Modification Date 04/13/04 9:40 AM
Case Number K24612402
Vehicle Issue MIL. P2509. The engine may stumble or stall out.;12 volt power (unswitched) and the ground circuits to the ECM are good. Batteries and charging system operation are good. If applicable (2006 and 2007 MY trucks), the ECM has already been updated per TSB 18-001-07.
System or Component Die out / Stall,Hesitation / Sag / Stumble;DTC / Error Message;ECM
Recommendation If the problem can be duplicated, disconnect the fan clutch 6-way connector and check if the concern still occurs. If the problem no longer occurs, replace the fan clutch assembly.
Modification Date 01/04/08 9:57 AM
another case
Case Number K65001956
Vehicle Issue Engine Dies At about 2,200 RPM While Driving. Set Codes P2509, P0113, And P0628. Code P0628 Resets. Verify Fuel Lift Pump Operation.;Engine dies out while driving. Mil is on and codes P0113, P0628, and P2509 have set. Codes P0628 Keeps resetting. The vehicles charging system and batteries check ok. ECM and PCM power feeds and grounds are ok. Fuel quality is good.
System or Component Long Crank During Restart,Restarts Immediately - Runs Fine;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Wiring,Battery,Charging System,Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Fuel Pump / Transfer Pump;1500 to 2000,2000 to 3000;Light Throttle,Moderate Throttle;Acceleration;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Volume Low
Recommendation Verify fuel volume. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260. Use a test light or a head light to load test the transfer pump power and ground. Inspect the transfer pump connector pins and crimps. If ok replace the transfer pump.
Modification Date 04/13/04 9:03 AM
another case
Case Number K19621710
Vehicle Issue The Engine Stalls While Driving And Does Not Restart. Setting Code P2509. Verify ECM operation.;The engine stalls while driving and will not restart. Code p2509 is setting. The charging system and batteries test ok. Fuel volume and quality is ok.
System or Component Will not Restart,Engine Cranks;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;ECM,Starting System;Cold Start (After 8 hour Soak),During Warm Up,Normal Operating Temperature;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic manual and perform diagnostics for code p2509. Fabricate a test light using a headlight and jumper wires. Load test the ECM battery feeds, ECM grounds and ECM switched ignition using the headlight. Check the engine ground on the engine block located near the fuel filter. If the ECM power feeds and grounds check ok replace the ECM.
Modification Date 04/19/04 11:32 AM
another case
Case Number K13878564
Vehicle Issue Engine Stalls Out. 'NO BUS' Message Is Displayed. P1652.;Power and ground connections to the Cummins ECM are good. P1652 and P2509 are set.
System or Component Die out / Stall;DTC / Error Message;Electronic Control Module,ECM;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Inspect the wiring harness near the C108 (14 pin) connector. This connector should be at the back of the engine, near the transmission bell housing.
Modification Date 03/17/05 4:25 PM
another case
Case Number K11967108
Vehicle Issue Engine Dies While Driving. Code p2509 Sets.;Engine dies out while driving. Mil is on and code P2509 has set. Fuel transfer pump volume is low. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260.
System or Component Long Crank During Restart,Restarts Immediately - Runs Fine;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Wiring,Battery,Charging System,Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Fuel Pump / Transfer Pump;Target Idle to 1500,1500 to 2000,2000 to 3000;Light Throttle,Moderate Throttle;Acceleration;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Volume Low
Recommendation Perform diagnostics for code p2509. Load test the batteries and charging system. Clean tighten the ECM, fuel transfer pump ground stud on the engine block located near the fuel filter.
Modification Date 04/13/04 9:40 AM
02-03-2011, 10:55 PM
#14
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p0251
Case Number K39040715
Vehicle Issue Hard start or no start. May have fault code P0148 , P0251.;Fuel is flowing freely through the Pressure Limiting Valve during the Fuel Pressure Override test and/or while cranking the engine (if the engine will not start).
System or Component Hard Start, Long Crank Time,Engine Cranks;14-003-06;Group 14 - Fuel System,Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low
Recommendation The Pressure Limiting Valve will need to be replaced. There is also an updated ECM which should also be replaced (unless the ECM had been replaced prior with part number 05191829AA / R5191829AA or newer) to prevent repeat PLV failures. The service kit for a revised ECM and a PLV is P/N 68003886AA
Modification Date 01/29/07 1:30 PM
another case
Case Number K37147937
Vehicle Issue No Start. Actual Fuel (Rail) Pressure Is Low. May have fuel system related codes such as P0148 or P0251, or No Codes.;The Actual Fuel Pressure (AFP) reading on the appropriate diagnostic scan tool is: erratic, varies more than 1000 psi, or the AFP reading may be low while cranking (less than 3000 psi). Make sure the batteries are properly charged and a battery charger is being used to maintain the battery charge during testing. Minimum cranking speed should be above 180 rpm. Reference TSB 14-003-06 revision A. Fuel supply flow volume and quality is good. Greater than 590 mL (20 oz) in 10 seconds. The high pressure pump output volume is greater than 70 mL (cranking the engine for three 10 second cycles). There is no fuel flowing from the Pressure Limiting Valve while cranking the engine. While cranking the engine for two 15 second cycles (30 seconds total), return fuel flow from the high pressure pump is less than 500 mL. While cranking the engine for two 15 second cycles (30 seconds total), return fuel flow from the injectors should less than 20 mL.
System or Component No Start,Engine Cranks;14-003-06;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Group 14 - Fuel System,Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability;Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low
Recommendation Using tool #9011, cap off each port of the high pressure manifold (rail) and try to start the engine. If the engine starts, remove and inspect the High Pressure Connector Tube and the injector from the capped off cylinder. Inspect for any loose or damaged connections. If necessary, replace the effected parts. If the total injector return is greater than 70 mL while cranking the engine (two 15 second cycles), it may be necessary to replace all six injectors.
Modification Date 01/31/07 9:19 AM
another case
Case Number K33413495
Vehicle Issue No Power Mil On. Codes P0192, P0202, P0340, p0341, P0336, P0652, P2266, P2146, P2149, Are Setting. Monitor The 5 Volt Sensor Feed And Map Sensor Operation.;The engine runs good until it reaches operating temperature. The ECM is setting codes P0192, P0202, P0340, p0341, P0336, P0652, P2266, P2146, P2149 and has no power when it reaches operating temperature. Actual fuel rail pressure may not meet fuel rail set point pressure. Fuel volume and quality are ok. The fuel limiting valve, fuel injection pump fuel return, injector fuel return check ok. Multiple fault codes related too, Water-in-fuel / APPS and Idle Validation / Fuel Rail Pressure / MAP sensor / CMP (camshaft) sensor / CKP (crankshaft) sensor have set a one time. Examples of codes that may set. P0341: CAMSHAFT POSITION (CMP) SENSOR SIGNAL. P0251: CP3 PUMP REGULATOR CONTROL. P0237: MAP SENSOR VOLTS TOO LOW. P0193: FUEL PRESS SENSOR VOLTS TOO HIGH. P2269: WATER IN FUEL. P2266: WATER IN FUEL (WIF) SENSOR VOLTAGE TOO LOW. P2127: LOW VOLTS AT THE THROTTLE VALIDATION SWITCH. P2121: APP VOLTS DO NOT AGREE WITH IDLE VALIDATION SIGNAL. All the above sensors have a common five-volt supply circuit. If any one has a short, it could cause codes to set for the other sensors.
System or Component Lack of Power / Sluggish,Loses Power;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Manifold Absolute Sensor (MAP);Normal Operating Temperature;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP)
Recommendation Monitor the engine sensor five volt supply while unplugging one sensor at a time. When the five volt supply returns to normal replace the last sensor that was unplugged. It may help to monitor sensor values on the DRBIIIŽ while the engine is acting up. Start by unplugging sensors that have unrealistic values.
Modification Date 12/08/04 9:19 AM
another case
Case Number K18678390
Vehicle Issue Engine Runs Rough. Mil Is On. Codes P0088 and P0251 Set. Verify The Fuel Injection Pump Fuel Control Actuator Operation.;The engine may fuel knock at idle, may fuel knock off idle and while driving. The engine may run rough. Codes p0088 and p0251 are setting. Fuel volume and fuel quality is ok. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260.
System or Component Engine Misfire,Rough / Unstable / Erratic Idle,Clatter,Knock,Ping,Rattle;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Injection Pump;Engine Idling,Target Idle to 1500;1st Gear,Neutral;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Pressure High
Recommendation Check the fuel rail control actuator wiring before replace the fuel injection pump. Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic manual diagnostics for code p0251. You may also find it helpful to listen the tone of the engine while monitoring actual fuel rail pressure on the DRBIIIŽ. When the fuel rail control actuator is unplugged actual rail pressure should rise and the engine should become noisier. More fuel is being forced through the injectors due to the higher fuel rail pressure. When the fuel rail control actuator is reconnected and pressure returns to set pressure the engines sound should return to normal. If actual fuel pressure stays high when the fuel rail control actuator is reconnected and engine noise returns to normal, check the fuel rail pressure sensor and circuits. If actual fuel rail pressure stays high and the engine is louder than normal when the fuel rail control actuator is plugged back in, check the fuel rail control actuator operation.
Modification Date 12/08/04 8:42 AM
another case
Case Number K17188926
Vehicle Issue MIL, P0251. Low power / misfire. Hard start or no start.;No wiring problems were found to the Fuel Control Actuator (FCA). The test light test does illuminate.
System or Component Engine Misfire,Lack of Power / Sluggish,Hard Start, Long Crank Time,No Start;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Injection Pump;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low
Recommendation Check the fuel supply system. Reference TechConnect or the 2003 powertrain manual (page #260). Check the Pressure Limiting Valve. On 2004 and newer trucks, activate the FUEL PRESSURE OVERRIDE TEST on the DRBIIIŽ. Check for any fuel flow from the PLV. On 2003 trucks, with the engine at idle, disconnect the FCA and check for any fuel flow. OPERATE THE ENGINE FOR A MINIMUM TIME WITH THE FCA DISCONNECTED. PROLONGED ENGINE OPERATION WITH THE FCA DISCONNECTED WILL CAUSE THE PLV TO FAIL (LEAK THROUGH) Check injector return flow volume and also the high pressure pump return flow volume. If the injector return flow is excessive, check for loose High Pressure Connector Tubes, loosen and retorque as necessary.
Modification Date 03/04/05 6:48 PM
another case
Case Number K14928798
Vehicle Issue Mil Light Is On. Code P0251 Is Setting. Verify Lift Pump Fuel Volume.;ECM is setting code p0251. Engine may lose power, stumble, or rattle. No wiring problems have been found. Diagnostic testing may misdiagnose a faulty ECM.
System or Component Hesitation / Sag / Stumble,Lack of Power / Sluggish,Loses Power,Clatter,Knock,Ping,Rattle,White Smoke;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;ECM,Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Volume Low
Recommendation It is possible that low fuel volume may set a p0251. Verify fuel volume. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260.
Modification Date 12/13/04 9:06 AM
another case
Case Number K10695933
Vehicle Issue Engine Surges. Code p0251 Is Setting. Verify Fuel Injection Pump Operation.;The engine may surge at idle and while driving. p0251 is the only code setting and it keeps resetting. Fuel volume and quality is ok.
System or Component Engine Surge,Hesitation / Sag / Stumble;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Injection Pump;Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic Manual and perform diagnostics for code p0251. Load test the Fuel Control actuator wire harness by using a test light as a load. Unplug the Fuel Control actuator and the ECM. Clamp a test light to battery positive. Ground one end of a Fuel Control actuator wire. Probe the open end of the Fuel Control actuator wire with your test light. If the test light does not illuminates repair the open circuit in the Fuel Control actuator wire. Repeat test for both Fuel Control actuator wires. If the wiring tests good and the out come of the diagnostic test is Test Complete replace the CP3 fuel injection pump.
Modification Date 12/13/04 8:46 AM
another case
Case Number K10092923
Vehicle Issue Mil On, Multiple Codes Set. Code P0341 Keeps Resetting, Engine Misfires Runs Rough And Is Noisy. Inspect The Engine Wire Harness.;Multiple fault codes related too, Water-in-fuel / APPS and Idle Validation / Fuel Rail Pressure / MAP sensor / CMP (camshaft) sensor / CKP (crankshaft) sensor have set a one time. P0341 keeps resetting after codes are cleared. Examples of codes that may set. P0341: CAMSHAFT POSITION (CMP) SENSOR SIGNAL. P0251: CP3 PUMP REGULATOR CONTROL. P0237: MAP SENSOR VOLTS TOO LOW. P0193: FUEL PRESS SENSOR VOLTS TOO HIGH. P2269: WATER IN FUEL. P2266: WATER IN FUEL (WIF) SENSOR VOLTAGE TOO LOW. P2127: LOW VOLTS AT THE THROTTLE VALIDATION SWITCH. P2121: APP VOLTS DO NOT AGREE WITH IDLE VALIDATION SIGNAL.
System or Component Engine Misfire,Engine Surge,Hesitation / Sag / Stumble,Lack of Power / Sluggish,Loses Power,Clatter,Knock,Rattle;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS),Cam Position Sensor (CMP),Manifold Absolute Sensor (MAP);Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Key on MAP Voltage Below 4.5 Volts,Cam Position Sensor (CMP)
Recommendation Inspect the A/C pressure transducer sensor five-volt supply wire for shorts to ground.
Modification Date 09/15/04 8:23 AM
Case Number K39040715
Vehicle Issue Hard start or no start. May have fault code P0148 , P0251.;Fuel is flowing freely through the Pressure Limiting Valve during the Fuel Pressure Override test and/or while cranking the engine (if the engine will not start).
System or Component Hard Start, Long Crank Time,Engine Cranks;14-003-06;Group 14 - Fuel System,Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low
Recommendation The Pressure Limiting Valve will need to be replaced. There is also an updated ECM which should also be replaced (unless the ECM had been replaced prior with part number 05191829AA / R5191829AA or newer) to prevent repeat PLV failures. The service kit for a revised ECM and a PLV is P/N 68003886AA
Modification Date 01/29/07 1:30 PM
another case
Case Number K37147937
Vehicle Issue No Start. Actual Fuel (Rail) Pressure Is Low. May have fuel system related codes such as P0148 or P0251, or No Codes.;The Actual Fuel Pressure (AFP) reading on the appropriate diagnostic scan tool is: erratic, varies more than 1000 psi, or the AFP reading may be low while cranking (less than 3000 psi). Make sure the batteries are properly charged and a battery charger is being used to maintain the battery charge during testing. Minimum cranking speed should be above 180 rpm. Reference TSB 14-003-06 revision A. Fuel supply flow volume and quality is good. Greater than 590 mL (20 oz) in 10 seconds. The high pressure pump output volume is greater than 70 mL (cranking the engine for three 10 second cycles). There is no fuel flowing from the Pressure Limiting Valve while cranking the engine. While cranking the engine for two 15 second cycles (30 seconds total), return fuel flow from the high pressure pump is less than 500 mL. While cranking the engine for two 15 second cycles (30 seconds total), return fuel flow from the injectors should less than 20 mL.
System or Component No Start,Engine Cranks;14-003-06;Customer Concern (No DTCs);Group 14 - Fuel System,Group 18 - Vehicle Performance / Driveability;Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low
Recommendation Using tool #9011, cap off each port of the high pressure manifold (rail) and try to start the engine. If the engine starts, remove and inspect the High Pressure Connector Tube and the injector from the capped off cylinder. Inspect for any loose or damaged connections. If necessary, replace the effected parts. If the total injector return is greater than 70 mL while cranking the engine (two 15 second cycles), it may be necessary to replace all six injectors.
Modification Date 01/31/07 9:19 AM
another case
Case Number K33413495
Vehicle Issue No Power Mil On. Codes P0192, P0202, P0340, p0341, P0336, P0652, P2266, P2146, P2149, Are Setting. Monitor The 5 Volt Sensor Feed And Map Sensor Operation.;The engine runs good until it reaches operating temperature. The ECM is setting codes P0192, P0202, P0340, p0341, P0336, P0652, P2266, P2146, P2149 and has no power when it reaches operating temperature. Actual fuel rail pressure may not meet fuel rail set point pressure. Fuel volume and quality are ok. The fuel limiting valve, fuel injection pump fuel return, injector fuel return check ok. Multiple fault codes related too, Water-in-fuel / APPS and Idle Validation / Fuel Rail Pressure / MAP sensor / CMP (camshaft) sensor / CKP (crankshaft) sensor have set a one time. Examples of codes that may set. P0341: CAMSHAFT POSITION (CMP) SENSOR SIGNAL. P0251: CP3 PUMP REGULATOR CONTROL. P0237: MAP SENSOR VOLTS TOO LOW. P0193: FUEL PRESS SENSOR VOLTS TOO HIGH. P2269: WATER IN FUEL. P2266: WATER IN FUEL (WIF) SENSOR VOLTAGE TOO LOW. P2127: LOW VOLTS AT THE THROTTLE VALIDATION SWITCH. P2121: APP VOLTS DO NOT AGREE WITH IDLE VALIDATION SIGNAL. All the above sensors have a common five-volt supply circuit. If any one has a short, it could cause codes to set for the other sensors.
System or Component Lack of Power / Sluggish,Loses Power;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Manifold Absolute Sensor (MAP);Normal Operating Temperature;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor (MAP)
Recommendation Monitor the engine sensor five volt supply while unplugging one sensor at a time. When the five volt supply returns to normal replace the last sensor that was unplugged. It may help to monitor sensor values on the DRBIIIŽ while the engine is acting up. Start by unplugging sensors that have unrealistic values.
Modification Date 12/08/04 9:19 AM
another case
Case Number K18678390
Vehicle Issue Engine Runs Rough. Mil Is On. Codes P0088 and P0251 Set. Verify The Fuel Injection Pump Fuel Control Actuator Operation.;The engine may fuel knock at idle, may fuel knock off idle and while driving. The engine may run rough. Codes p0088 and p0251 are setting. Fuel volume and fuel quality is ok. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260.
System or Component Engine Misfire,Rough / Unstable / Erratic Idle,Clatter,Knock,Ping,Rattle;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Injection Pump;Engine Idling,Target Idle to 1500;1st Gear,Neutral;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Pressure High
Recommendation Check the fuel rail control actuator wiring before replace the fuel injection pump. Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic manual diagnostics for code p0251. You may also find it helpful to listen the tone of the engine while monitoring actual fuel rail pressure on the DRBIIIŽ. When the fuel rail control actuator is unplugged actual rail pressure should rise and the engine should become noisier. More fuel is being forced through the injectors due to the higher fuel rail pressure. When the fuel rail control actuator is reconnected and pressure returns to set pressure the engines sound should return to normal. If actual fuel pressure stays high when the fuel rail control actuator is reconnected and engine noise returns to normal, check the fuel rail pressure sensor and circuits. If actual fuel rail pressure stays high and the engine is louder than normal when the fuel rail control actuator is plugged back in, check the fuel rail control actuator operation.
Modification Date 12/08/04 8:42 AM
another case
Case Number K17188926
Vehicle Issue MIL, P0251. Low power / misfire. Hard start or no start.;No wiring problems were found to the Fuel Control Actuator (FCA). The test light test does illuminate.
System or Component Engine Misfire,Lack of Power / Sluggish,Hard Start, Long Crank Time,No Start;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Injection Pump;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low
Recommendation Check the fuel supply system. Reference TechConnect or the 2003 powertrain manual (page #260). Check the Pressure Limiting Valve. On 2004 and newer trucks, activate the FUEL PRESSURE OVERRIDE TEST on the DRBIIIŽ. Check for any fuel flow from the PLV. On 2003 trucks, with the engine at idle, disconnect the FCA and check for any fuel flow. OPERATE THE ENGINE FOR A MINIMUM TIME WITH THE FCA DISCONNECTED. PROLONGED ENGINE OPERATION WITH THE FCA DISCONNECTED WILL CAUSE THE PLV TO FAIL (LEAK THROUGH) Check injector return flow volume and also the high pressure pump return flow volume. If the injector return flow is excessive, check for loose High Pressure Connector Tubes, loosen and retorque as necessary.
Modification Date 03/04/05 6:48 PM
another case
Case Number K14928798
Vehicle Issue Mil Light Is On. Code P0251 Is Setting. Verify Lift Pump Fuel Volume.;ECM is setting code p0251. Engine may lose power, stumble, or rattle. No wiring problems have been found. Diagnostic testing may misdiagnose a faulty ECM.
System or Component Hesitation / Sag / Stumble,Lack of Power / Sluggish,Loses Power,Clatter,Knock,Ping,Rattle,White Smoke;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;ECM,Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Fuel Pressure Low,Fuel Volume Low
Recommendation It is possible that low fuel volume may set a p0251. Verify fuel volume. For test procedures refer to the 2003 Powertrain Diagnostic Manual Page 260.
Modification Date 12/13/04 9:06 AM
another case
Case Number K10695933
Vehicle Issue Engine Surges. Code p0251 Is Setting. Verify Fuel Injection Pump Operation.;The engine may surge at idle and while driving. p0251 is the only code setting and it keeps resetting. Fuel volume and quality is ok.
System or Component Engine Surge,Hesitation / Sag / Stumble;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Injection Pump;Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Refer to the appropriate Powertrain Diagnostic Manual and perform diagnostics for code p0251. Load test the Fuel Control actuator wire harness by using a test light as a load. Unplug the Fuel Control actuator and the ECM. Clamp a test light to battery positive. Ground one end of a Fuel Control actuator wire. Probe the open end of the Fuel Control actuator wire with your test light. If the test light does not illuminates repair the open circuit in the Fuel Control actuator wire. Repeat test for both Fuel Control actuator wires. If the wiring tests good and the out come of the diagnostic test is Test Complete replace the CP3 fuel injection pump.
Modification Date 12/13/04 8:46 AM
another case
Case Number K10092923
Vehicle Issue Mil On, Multiple Codes Set. Code P0341 Keeps Resetting, Engine Misfires Runs Rough And Is Noisy. Inspect The Engine Wire Harness.;Multiple fault codes related too, Water-in-fuel / APPS and Idle Validation / Fuel Rail Pressure / MAP sensor / CMP (camshaft) sensor / CKP (crankshaft) sensor have set a one time. P0341 keeps resetting after codes are cleared. Examples of codes that may set. P0341: CAMSHAFT POSITION (CMP) SENSOR SIGNAL. P0251: CP3 PUMP REGULATOR CONTROL. P0237: MAP SENSOR VOLTS TOO LOW. P0193: FUEL PRESS SENSOR VOLTS TOO HIGH. P2269: WATER IN FUEL. P2266: WATER IN FUEL (WIF) SENSOR VOLTAGE TOO LOW. P2127: LOW VOLTS AT THE THROTTLE VALIDATION SWITCH. P2121: APP VOLTS DO NOT AGREE WITH IDLE VALIDATION SIGNAL.
System or Component Engine Misfire,Engine Surge,Hesitation / Sag / Stumble,Lack of Power / Sluggish,Loses Power,Clatter,Knock,Rattle;Customer Concern (No DTCs),DTC / Error Message;Malfunction Indicator Light / MIL / Check Engine Light,Accelerator Pedal Position Sensor (APPS),Cam Position Sensor (CMP),Manifold Absolute Sensor (MAP);Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously;Key on MAP Voltage Below 4.5 Volts,Cam Position Sensor (CMP)
Recommendation Inspect the A/C pressure transducer sensor five-volt supply wire for shorts to ground.
Modification Date 09/15/04 8:23 AM
02-03-2011, 10:56 PM
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p1652
Case Number K13878564
Vehicle Issue Engine Stalls Out. 'NO BUS' Message Is Displayed. P1652.;Power and ground connections to the Cummins ECM are good. P1652 and P2509 are set.
System or Component Die out / Stall;DTC / Error Message;Electronic Control Module,ECM;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Inspect the wiring harness near the C108 (14 pin) connector. This connector should be at the back of the engine, near the transmission bell housing.
Modification Date 03/17/05 4:25 PM
Case Number K13878564
Vehicle Issue Engine Stalls Out. 'NO BUS' Message Is Displayed. P1652.;Power and ground connections to the Cummins ECM are good. P1652 and P2509 are set.
System or Component Die out / Stall;DTC / Error Message;Electronic Control Module,ECM;Yes - Intermittent,Yes - Continuously
Recommendation Inspect the wiring harness near the C108 (14 pin) connector. This connector should be at the back of the engine, near the transmission bell housing.
Modification Date 03/17/05 4:25 PM