Well, 87,000 miles and injectors are done!!!!
03-29-2012, 10:42 AM
#61
Administrator
That is definitely good news Spooler! My Son John Jr. had the same quick "turnaround" from Tim and Don when he sent his 50 H.P. "F-1 Injectors"
to Don to be checked also.
03-29-2012, 10:44 AM
#62
Banned
Hey Spooler (or others), wondered if you can clarify something for me. Just replaced the injectors in an '05 CR for a friend. He took them to the Dodge dealer to have them "tested" before sending them in for core. What exactly does "tested" mean? I was quite disappointed to hear they charged him $75 to "test" them - but they were not flow tested....?? I was under the impression they had a flow bench or something to test them out. I could have determined if the coils were ok in less then 2 minutes. What did they test? What am I missing? They said they needed them in the truck to flow test them. I know it can be done that way also, but how did you find out which ones were failed and which ones were close if "in the truck's" the only way to do it? His all checked out fine with Dodge's "test" but with the new injectors, it no longer misses and fires off in half a crank rather than the stumble it previously had and the 15 second cranking times to get it to stumble to life.... So I know it was a flow issue as I suspected....
03-29-2012, 11:06 AM
#63
Administrator
Hey Spooler (or others), wondered if you can clarify something for me. Just replaced the injectors in an '05 CR for a friend. He took them to the Dodge dealer to have them "tested" before sending them in for core. What exactly does "tested" mean? I was quite disappointed to hear they charged him $75 to "test" them - but they were not flow tested....?? I was under the impression they had a flow bench or something to test them out. I could have determined if the coils were ok in less then 2 minutes. What did they test? What am I missing? They said they needed them in the truck to flow test them. I know it can be done that way also, but how did you find out which ones were failed and which ones were close if "in the truck's" the only way to do it? His all checked out fine with Dodge's "test" but with the new injectors, it no longer misses and fires off in half a crank rather than the stumble it previously had and the 15 second cranking times to get it to stumble to life.... So I know it was a flow issue as I suspected....
9812vram:
The only way to "flow check" a Dodge CTD CR Injector is to pull them out and put them on a Bosch Test Stand Sir. The Dodge Dealers do have their Dodge DRB Scanners that can check to see if the injector is faulty but that "test" does not show the "flow" of the injector. With the Dodge DRB Scanner, they are able to "isolate" each injector on each cylinder and determine from there if there is one that is bad or faulty.
I can also tell you that long crank times are indicative of CR injector problems although there are other issues that can cause that. My 2006 Dodge CTD CR started showing injector issues with the long crank times as you said.Two of my injectors had very low pressures and one solenoid was also bad.
Hope this helps you some Sir!
03-29-2012, 11:26 AM
#64
Banned
---------------------------------
9812vram:
The only way to "flow check" a Dodge CTD CR Injector is to pull them out and put them on a Bosch Test Stand Sir. The Dodge Dealers do have their Dodge DRB Scanners that can check to see if the injector is faulty but that "test" does not show the "flow" of the injector. With the Dodge DRB Scanner, they are able to "isolate" each injector on each cylinder and determine from there if there is one that is bad or faulty.
I can also tell you that long crank times are indicative of CR injector problems although there are other issues that can cause that. My 2006 Dodge CTD CR started showing injector issues with the long crank times as you said.Two of my injectors had very low pressures and one solenoid was also bad.
Hope this helps you some Sir!
9812vram:
The only way to "flow check" a Dodge CTD CR Injector is to pull them out and put them on a Bosch Test Stand Sir. The Dodge Dealers do have their Dodge DRB Scanners that can check to see if the injector is faulty but that "test" does not show the "flow" of the injector. With the Dodge DRB Scanner, they are able to "isolate" each injector on each cylinder and determine from there if there is one that is bad or faulty.
I can also tell you that long crank times are indicative of CR injector problems although there are other issues that can cause that. My 2006 Dodge CTD CR started showing injector issues with the long crank times as you said.Two of my injectors had very low pressures and one solenoid was also bad.
Hope this helps you some Sir!
I knew from the start that there was a 90% chance it was his injectors, because of the design/how they work. We wanted them tested though just for curiosity sake to see how bad they really were.
So how did you know you had two with low pressure? Did you have yours put through on the test stand or do they figure that out by running the truck with the DRB and measuring return flow by cutting out one injector at a time?
Thanks.
Spooler, sorry to hijack your thread..... I'm almost done....
03-29-2012, 11:49 AM
#65
Administrator
Yes, thanks for the clarification John, and quick response. I was under the impression that Dodge would have one of them bosh test stands.
I knew from the start that there was a 90% chance it was his injectors, because of the design/how they work. We wanted them tested though just for curiosity sake to see how bad they really were.
So how did you know you had two with low pressure? Did you have yours put through on the test stand or do they figure that out by running the truck with the DRB and measuring return flow by cutting out one injector at a time?
Thanks.
Spooler, sorry to hijack your thread..... I'm almost done....
I knew from the start that there was a 90% chance it was his injectors, because of the design/how they work. We wanted them tested though just for curiosity sake to see how bad they really were.
So how did you know you had two with low pressure? Did you have yours put through on the test stand or do they figure that out by running the truck with the DRB and measuring return flow by cutting out one injector at a time?
Thanks.
Spooler, sorry to hijack your thread..... I'm almost done....
9812vram:
You are very welcome on the reply Sir!
I would add that with the Dodge DRB Scanners the Dodge Tech's have the capability to check parameters like cranking rail pressure, cylinder contribution etc. The $75.00 fee that they charged your friend has to be their charge for that Dodge DRB Scanner check. FWIW,.....I do not know of any Dodge Dealers that have a Bosch CR Injector Test Stand in their dealerships. The Bosch Test Stands are VERY expensive and it is not really cost effective for the dealerships to have one. If they bought one, Bosch requires all Technicians to attend a school to show proficiency in operating their test stands. There is alot to it really.
Most all of the Dodge Dealers send the injectors out to a certified Bosch Diesel Shop (like Don M @ "F-1") to have the injectors repaired. However, some Dodge Dealers will replace the Dodge CR Injectors with a Bosch Reman or new ones although I am told that is getting more and more rare.
You asked about how I knew I had two injectors with low pressure. Like Spooler, I really didn't know but "suspected" the injectors from past experience and knowledge of these trucks. The long crank times, occasional rough running and white smoke also led me to believe I had injector problems.
I actually found out that the two injectors had the low pressure after my preferred shop (Scheid Diesel) tested them on their Bosch Test Stand and then completely went through ALL of them and repaired as needed. Right now, Scheid Diesel has two of the Bosch Test Stands for the CR Injectors.
Hope this all helps you 9812vram!
03-29-2012, 12:04 PM
#66
Banned
------------------------------------
9812vram:
You are very welcome on the reply Sir!
I would add that with the Dodge DRB Scanners the Dodge Tech's have the capability to check parameters like cranking rail pressure, cylinder contribution etc. The $75.00 fee that they charged your friend has to be their charge for that Dodge DRB Scanner check. FWIW,.....I do not know of any Dodge Dealers that have a Bosch CR Injector Test Stand in their dealerships. The Bosch Test Stands are VERY expensive and it is not really cost effective for the dealerships to have one. If they bought one, Bosch requires all Technicians to attend a school to show proficiency in operating their test stands. There is alot to it really.
Most all of the Dodge Dealers send the injectors out to a certified Bosch Diesel Shop (like Don M @ "F-1") to have the injectors repaired. However, some Dodge Dealers will replace the Dodge CR Injectors with a Bosch Reman or new ones although I am told that is getting more and more rare.
You asked about how I knew I had two injectors with low pressure. Like Spooler, I really didn't know but "suspected" the injectors from past experience and knowledge of these trucks. The long crank times, occasional rough running and white smoke also led me to believe I had injector problems.
I actually found out that the two injectors had the low pressure after my preferred shop (Scheid Diesel) tested them on their Bosch Test Stand and then completely went through ALL of them and repaired as needed. Right now, Scheid Diesel has two of the Bosch Test Stands for the CR Injectors.
Hope this all helps you 9812vram!
9812vram:
You are very welcome on the reply Sir!
I would add that with the Dodge DRB Scanners the Dodge Tech's have the capability to check parameters like cranking rail pressure, cylinder contribution etc. The $75.00 fee that they charged your friend has to be their charge for that Dodge DRB Scanner check. FWIW,.....I do not know of any Dodge Dealers that have a Bosch CR Injector Test Stand in their dealerships. The Bosch Test Stands are VERY expensive and it is not really cost effective for the dealerships to have one. If they bought one, Bosch requires all Technicians to attend a school to show proficiency in operating their test stands. There is alot to it really.
Most all of the Dodge Dealers send the injectors out to a certified Bosch Diesel Shop (like Don M @ "F-1") to have the injectors repaired. However, some Dodge Dealers will replace the Dodge CR Injectors with a Bosch Reman or new ones although I am told that is getting more and more rare.
You asked about how I knew I had two injectors with low pressure. Like Spooler, I really didn't know but "suspected" the injectors from past experience and knowledge of these trucks. The long crank times, occasional rough running and white smoke also led me to believe I had injector problems.
I actually found out that the two injectors had the low pressure after my preferred shop (Scheid Diesel) tested them on their Bosch Test Stand and then completely went through ALL of them and repaired as needed. Right now, Scheid Diesel has two of the Bosch Test Stands for the CR Injectors.
Hope this all helps you 9812vram!
Thanks again for the info. Always learning to do!
03-29-2012, 04:18 PM
#67
Administrator
You are very welcome Sir! Sorry about my wrong comments on your friends dealer fee.
I misunderstood you I guess.
03-29-2012, 07:31 PM
#69
Always a day late, and a dollar short.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baker, MT
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Right on.
@ 9812vram: the injector kill test is basically an injector contribution test. If the engine lopes and has a significant drop in RPM (usually 100) that injector is spraying good, but it still can have a little return flow (meaning it's slightly wore). No major drop in RPM's means it's either got a plugged nozzle or has a high return rate which will lead to solenoid failure, then you'll see white smoke on a cold start with the engine running really rough. Obviously, change that injector ASAP. As mentioned already, CR test bench is the only true way to find out where a person stands on flow rates, etc.....
@ 9812vram: the injector kill test is basically an injector contribution test. If the engine lopes and has a significant drop in RPM (usually 100) that injector is spraying good, but it still can have a little return flow (meaning it's slightly wore). No major drop in RPM's means it's either got a plugged nozzle or has a high return rate which will lead to solenoid failure, then you'll see white smoke on a cold start with the engine running really rough. Obviously, change that injector ASAP. As mentioned already, CR test bench is the only true way to find out where a person stands on flow rates, etc.....
03-30-2012, 06:57 AM
#70
Administrator
Right on.
@ 9812vram: the injector kill test is basically an injector contribution test. If the engine lopes and has a significant drop in RPM (usually 100) that injector is spraying good, but it still can have a little return flow (meaning it's slightly wore). No major drop in RPM's means it's either got a plugged nozzle or has a high return rate which will lead to solenoid failure, then you'll see white smoke on a cold start with the engine running really rough. Obviously, change that injector ASAP. As mentioned already, CR test bench is the only true way to find out where a person stands on flow rates, etc.....
@ 9812vram: the injector kill test is basically an injector contribution test. If the engine lopes and has a significant drop in RPM (usually 100) that injector is spraying good, but it still can have a little return flow (meaning it's slightly wore). No major drop in RPM's means it's either got a plugged nozzle or has a high return rate which will lead to solenoid failure, then you'll see white smoke on a cold start with the engine running really rough. Obviously, change that injector ASAP. As mentioned already, CR test bench is the only true way to find out where a person stands on flow rates, etc.....
Good post Sir! Thanks for the back-up. I should have clarified tmore my post.
03-30-2012, 09:45 PM
#71
Registered User
I haven't been on for a few days and now see that No 6 was banned.... 
I liked him, he helped me a lot with my trans, he always answered questions for me... So did Spooler and John, so I'm not taking sides, but a guy with over what 4,000 posts must have contributed something... I'll miss him anyway...
I didn't read what it was all about, and I really don't care, just saw that we lost someone who helped me out and that's too bad I guess.
Oh well, I wish him luck and hope we all can get along and not argue!
Spooler, I'm dying to hear how those sticks work. My truck stumble starts every now and then.... It is only a matter of time....
I liked him, he helped me a lot with my trans, he always answered questions for me... So did Spooler and John, so I'm not taking sides, but a guy with over what 4,000 posts must have contributed something... I'll miss him anyway...
I didn't read what it was all about, and I really don't care, just saw that we lost someone who helped me out and that's too bad I guess.
Oh well, I wish him luck and hope we all can get along and not argue!
Spooler, I'm dying to hear how those sticks work. My truck stumble starts every now and then.... It is only a matter of time....
03-31-2012, 07:14 AM
#72
Administrator / Severe Concussion Aficionado
Everyone can get along, and different opinions are to be expected. But when someone starts to berate, and personally attack another member, their time will be short here.
03-31-2012, 09:02 AM
#73
Administrator
I haven't been on for a few days and now see that No 6 was banned....
I liked him, he helped me a lot with my trans, he always answered questions for me... So did Spooler and John, so I'm not taking sides, but a guy with over what 4,000 posts must have contributed something... I'll miss him anyway...
I didn't read what it was all about, and I really don't care, just saw that we lost someone who helped me out and that's too bad I guess.
Oh well, I wish him luck and hope we all can get along and not argue!
Spooler, I'm dying to hear how those sticks work. My truck stumble starts every now and then.... It is only a matter of time....
I liked him, he helped me a lot with my trans, he always answered questions for me... So did Spooler and John, so I'm not taking sides, but a guy with over what 4,000 posts must have contributed something... I'll miss him anyway...
I didn't read what it was all about, and I really don't care, just saw that we lost someone who helped me out and that's too bad I guess.
Oh well, I wish him luck and hope we all can get along and not argue!
Spooler, I'm dying to hear how those sticks work. My truck stumble starts every now and then.... It is only a matter of time....
Lost Lake:
Blake Clark has pretty much summed up the situation with no_6_oh_no and I don't really have much to add to it. However, as Blake said, when a member attacks another DTR Member or an Administrator here like he did that is just not going to cut it Sir!
And I had to "edit" some of his language and accusations towards myself and Spooler. As Blake also said, having a "difference of opinion" is one thing, but a personal attack is something else.We have NEVER tolerated that type of post here and we never will!
It is admirable that you are speaking up for your friend but he went way over the line!
03-31-2012, 11:54 AM
#74
Registered User
Thread Starter
It's freaking raining.... Gotta wait until it stops since the truck is outside. Didn't have the room to leave it in the garage, the darn doors won't close...LOL
03-31-2012, 12:09 PM
#75
Registered User
Thread Starter
I haven't been on for a few days and now see that No 6 was banned....
I liked him, he helped me a lot with my trans, he always answered questions for me... So did Spooler and John, so I'm not taking sides, but a guy with over what 4,000 posts must have contributed something... I'll miss him anyway...
I didn't read what it was all about, and I really don't care, just saw that we lost someone who helped me out and that's too bad I guess.
Oh well, I wish him luck and hope we all can get along and not argue!
Spooler, I'm dying to hear how those sticks work. My truck stumble starts every now and then.... It is only a matter of time....
I liked him, he helped me a lot with my trans, he always answered questions for me... So did Spooler and John, so I'm not taking sides, but a guy with over what 4,000 posts must have contributed something... I'll miss him anyway...
I didn't read what it was all about, and I really don't care, just saw that we lost someone who helped me out and that's too bad I guess.
Oh well, I wish him luck and hope we all can get along and not argue!
Spooler, I'm dying to hear how those sticks work. My truck stumble starts every now and then.... It is only a matter of time....
Yeap, you are at the mileage and are showing the symptoms of injectors. Anything over 120,000 miles on these injectors is gravey.