Got Torque?

For one thing the Banks test was done on a CA SO truck and the TST was done on an HO. Apples to oranges.

Second, just like I said before, the Banks system is sold as a more conservative real world, protect your truck from damage, type of system, thus the low 1,300 (approx) EGT max. I'm not knocking the TST because, to tell you the truth, I don't know much about it. Their web site is lacking in details and I have never heard of them before this forum.

Go to Banks web-site and they have very detailed specs and testing info on their systems. They have been around for a long time, unlike a lot of the new start-up Diesel performance companies, therefore, I tend to trust their system.

Until TST puts out some more details I would be sceptical about their system for my application (no drag racing, daily driver). Sounds like it may put out more power, but at what expense? The CA CTD lacks some of the heat protection features that the HO CTD does. This may be why Banks errors on the side of caution, since they are in CA and that is most likely their biggest market.

Possibly, since you seem to have inside knowledge on their set-up you can tell the rest of us where we can verify it. I would love to read up on their system and see what its all about. Maybe it is better than Banks, but why don't they publish some DETAILS on their website telling why?

Thanks again for helping out.

GT

rattlenrod

A weak web site shouldn't reflect negativly on a product. I know sometimes I think "wow" this site is lacking so the product must be also. Not at all in this case! The "Man" at TST is a Cummins Engineer. They've been around a long time. I did some research and the more I dig the better it looks! I'm sure the site will be update with more indepth info as time goes on.

Push Rod

But horsepower gain is horsepower gain. Unlike the 2nd generation trucks, the power box gain is not influenced by CA, SO, or HO version. The boxes will deliver the same gain, no matter what version of the Cummins they are hooked to. Note that I said gain, not peak. I understand that the initial dyno graphs were showing two different trucks on two different dynos. However, the Banks kit when put on an HO, will still generate the same gain, at the expense of higher EGTs than the Cali truck.

Compared to TST, Banks is the upstart in the diesel performance industry. Their initial foray into the industry involved buying cam plates from TST. TST was also the first company to offer power upgrades for 2nd generation, VP44 equipped trucks. TST's owner was also a Cummins designer for over 20 years, and as such, has intimate knowledge of the Cummins diesel engine that can only come from years of experience. It also helps that TST's shop is across the street from the Indiana Cummins engine shop. TST normally gets first crack at the engines as they are developed, and Mark Chapple (TST) and the Cummins engineers share testing information on an ongoing basis. The Cummins plant even uses TST's dyno on occasion.

I don't mean to turn this into a pee-ing contest. I really don't. But you are creditting Banks with having more knowledge than TST's designers, and having been in diesel industry longer, and its just not so.

I guess I fail to understand your point here. The TST box is adjustable between 40 and 150 HP. As the power level goes down, so does the heat and so does the chance of causing damage to the rest of the driveline. TST has the same protection mechanism in the form of an automatic defueling in case of excessive EGTs. And if you slip the torque converter or the clutch, you simply drop the box down to a power level that your driveline can handle. You have additional control over your bottom side torque, which the Banks kit does not offer.

I guess I'm not sure what sort of information you're looking for. Its a simple box that adjusts timing and injector pulse width. TST's installation instructions bluntly state that running the box in the full out mode on the street will result in high EGTs and possible driveline damage. A quick call to TST will yield an answer to any question you may have about the product.

Rod

Got Torque?

Thanks Rod, they are sounding better and better. Like I said, I'm not bashing TST. I just don't know much about them. As far as what you implied I said above...

"But you are creditting Banks with having more knowledge than TST's designers, and having been in diesel industry longer, and its just not so."

I never said this. I said Banks has been around a long time and I would tend to trust them based on their reputation. I don't know squat about TST because they don't have any info on their web site. But now that you have filled me in, they sound pretty good. If a person is not in the truck business than the only way he can find out about a company half way across the country is on the internet or with a phone call. I sent them an e-mail with some questions, hopefully they will write back.

Thanks again for taking the time to help a guy out.

GT

Push Rod

Certainly. And do yourself a big favor and do a snoop on here for TST. There are numerous threads on the 2nd gen and 12 valve upgrades that they've got. You'll find some good reading, and a pile of really good information on how these fueling boxes work, timing, injection pulse width, and fuel pressure mods (3rd Gen only)

Rod

jt

would the RWHP be higher on a stick then a auto? With the same flywheel HP>

JT

Floor It

I have been testing the TST box and at HP#4 and TQ# 4 I could only get to 1145 egt. Now this was with a quick spool B1. If I remember at that same power level it was 1270 gets with the stock turbo.I didnt get to test much with the stock turbo because I blew it up. I was playing too hard with it. Even on those lower settings this thing pulled WAY harder than when I had the edge pressure box on level 5!

John
Floor IT Diesel Performance

Push Rod

TST has been piecemealing out our initial order a couple boxes at a time, and with the length of our pre-order list, I've been giving new orders a 3 - 4 week time estimate.

Rod

Got Torque?

Push Rod, this is kinda what I was worried about. Floor it, can you elaborate on what happened? Do you think the box is too aggressive for a stock turbo or was it just a fluke? What did TST say?

Thanks,

GT

Push Rod

Torque, you're still coming at this in the wrong direction though. Or perhaps I haven't explained the functioning of the PowerMax properly, so we'll start from the beginning:

The TST PowerMax has 9 different power settings between 40HP and 150 HP. Power level 1 is 40 and each power level boosts it up an additional 12 or so horsepower. The PowerMax also has 9 different "torque enhancement" modes. The torque enhancement setting simply tells the TST box how hard to bring the fuel in down low. So TE level 9 will fuel harder than TE1, but only UP TO the power level setting. So if you've got the power level set low, the bottom side power will still be relatively mellow.

In power level 4, the TST box is only putting down about 80 to 90 HP, about the same as a Banks system. He also had the TE set on level 4, which appears to close to the aggression setting of a Banks kit (if we can go from their dyno graphs) So on Johns truck the Banks system would have blown the turbocharger as well, as his EGTs never got to the point where the Banks system would have defueled.

As an aside, if John blew his charger at 4x4 on the TST box, he had some charger issues.

Horsepower is horsepower, it doesn't matter whose box is making it. Its up to the vendors and manufacturers to determine where the "safe" points are for the Cali trucks, the SOs, and the HOs. As more miles are put on trucks with the PowerMax, we'll be able to determine where the safe max power point and the safe torque enhancement points are for each truck. But the point is that there will be a safe point on the PowerMax for each truck, and as long your fingers don't get busy and boost the settings up, your truck will be safe.

Rod

Lightman

man is this thing gonna make DTT and ATS some money!

BADBOWTIE

Yes sir and those of us with 6 spds will give SBC, Haisley and Mitchell a lot of money as well. I can not wait. I just want to know what is needed in the turbo department, they are too pricey to buy one that won't cut the mustard.
Jason

Push Rod

We've got a B1B coming in the next month thats been earmarked for testing purposes. Between the current KSB1B and the new B1B we should be able to determine a proper configuration (in so far as B1s are concerned) for the 03 trucks.

Rod

Floor It

I had the box in level 8 HP and TQ at 6 but I think it had more to do with that I let out and got right back into it too soon. Plus I think there really might have been some turbo issues. Mark has been testing for a long time now and has not blown his yet.

John