Agades

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

this guy has got work to do
you think hes got time to sit on the internet and play footsy with you and doug all day long
hes got a business to run and PAYING customers to take care of

It would be like me turning down a cash welding job to go weld a manure spreader for a relative who i know is never gonna pay me in money (one way ticket for running your business to bankrupt)

I think hes done plenty to gain some points

you guys brag up another vendor on this site all the time yet I never see that guy on here defending himself or sharing his inside info, nor should he have to

chese!
take it easy on the ripping

Agades

Oh yah,
nothin free about his advertising

you see that little box at the top of the page that shows different vendors from time to time, thats for PAID ADVERTISORS.

yes, that means he PAID money for his advertising

AK RAM

Dennis was not an advertiser on this forum until we were well into the discussion on his product. In fact, I think he paid his dues just last week. Dennis also logs into this forum several times a day to check on this thread’s progress. Yeah…we see him. He started out with a harmless plug for his product (good on ya), then went to damage control (ut oh), then went silent (darn it), and I thought we had him back for a second there. To me, unanswered questions are worse than bad publicity, even if it is free.

Agades, you are taking this all wrong. I have talked to Dennis.....he is a good guy. I only question his methods and the potential motives behind them after being given ample opportunities to provide relevant information. I had a similar attitude as you towards Dennis' approach, although a little confused by the amount of secrecy, until earlier today. What happened was I started over on this thread and read the entire thing looking for any information that I may have missed or forgotten was mentioned. It was at that point that it hit me. Dennis has provided this forum absolutely zero relevant data on his box despite repeated questions by many different forum users. He has consistently dodged (no pun intended) the bullet. Go back and read and you will see. I did not catch onto that until I re-read the entire thing. The more I think about that, the more it bothers me, especially in light of the fact that I may just put one of these on my $45,000 truck. Here's why, and this all centers around the importance of knowing the MAX fuel pressure of this box. Pressure that is too high will cause damage and you need to realize that fact for this to make sense. Rail pressure is a HUGE deal!

I understand Dennis wanting to keep trade secrets. If he is manipulating duration and timing by using only the MAP and fuel rail sensors, then he is doing something quit unique. However, the sticking point is rail pressure. Raising rail pressure is no secret…everybody does it and everybody knows that everybody does it. Raising pressure is so simple to do and so widely used that I find it hard to believe someone would go to such lengths to keep that part of their product a secret….unless?….and there in lies the question. Unless what? Maybe his product raises pressure to much. It is common knowledge that the MAX psi for the 03/04 fuel rail is around 29,000 psi (jury still out on the 04.5). For Dennis to say that his box does not raise pressure beyond the operating limits of the fuel rail means nothing. Yeah, the fuel rail can handle it, but the rest of your fuel system can not and long term use of the Edge EZ on level 6 has proven that. It is a no brainer, since the majority of us are concerned about it, that it would be more of a benefit to Dennis and his product to inform us on the MAX psi his product will raise pressure to. That would truly set his product apart from the other pressure boxes. The fact that he chooses not to do this tells me that maybe, just maybe, he knows it is to high and his product’s success is over if we found out. I hate to think that, but that is a scenario I have to consider. How else could you get 100hp from a pressure box, and he has given us no hard data to support it doing anything else. Edge EZ on level 6 (bad mojo) only put out 80 or 90 or so…..on a good day.

I want the RAMifier to be a good product. I want to buy one so bad, and I may just buy one yet! It is the most non-code throwing bang for your buck. But I can’t just assume and gamble on a truck that took half my adult life to be able to afford. I just don’t get it. Dennis could do this so much better. I see it, you have to see it, but he chooses not to, and it just bothers me to think what might be behind curtain number 2.

My only hope is that if I slam Dennis' product enough, then he will be like "Enough already..MAX psi is____". Then I'd be like "WOOO HOOO"..."Next day air please!" Then we could spend countless nonproductive hours talking about something else.

Deuce

I have bought one of these boxes but I am very nervous about hooking it up after reading all these post. I really dont want to hurt the truck in any way but that doesnt mean I dont want to plug it in and enjoy the new found power.
I am kinda like the others I would like to have an idea what the psi is before hooking this box up if this is possible. I am just sitting back hoping someone gives this info out--------if not is it worth taking a chance and hurting something?

JIM

Agades

I see your point AK, but
with all this hacking he may just throw his hands up and say *****it. and allow everyone to see for themselves

If it were me, I would have a hard time giving any info to anyone who is constantly picking apart everything I say and do

I agree that it seams that this is one of only two boxes that no one has had any problem with as of yet, only time and testing will show
so lets allow some people to test it out and see

if you are truly scared of it , let others test it out.
dont just rip it apart because he wont tell you what it is doing

-------maybe a civilized conversation with him before starting this thread may have avoided this whole thing, but now hes got to be on the defensive------

If it truly is pumping too much pressure, I think it will show soon enough

If this box legitimately causes problems, well , hack away
if not, brag it up

also he has said he will set the max at whatever you want
sooo, have him taylor it that way, The way I see it its like burger king, you get it your way

I know a few places" you dont get it your way, you get it my way, otherwise you dont get it"

AK RAM

I didn't mean to scare anyone. We are not talking instant, catastrophic failure here. Plug that bad boy up and have some fun!

Even if I don’t get the answers I’m looking for, I will probably end up buying the RAMifier anyway just to get me through the summer, until the timing and duration boxes are all released and the bugs are worked out. I would think a few thousand miles with the RAMifier would be harmless even if the pressures are way high. Running it in excess of 20/30,000 miles would make me nervous though. That seems to be where high pressures are really taking their toll.

You can always send it up here to me and I’ll make sure it’s operating correctly.

Agades....I know. I'm just at a loss. I have talked to Dennis personally, asked civilized questions (check out my second post on page 1), and I'm just running out of options. I just need closure. Darn it, I sound like my wife...see what you have done.

doug

AK: OBD does not report rail pressure. It happens to be part of the OBD II spec, but Dodge has chosen not to report it. There is a very easy way to measure it, however, by hooking up a DMM onto the fuel pressure port. A few of us on the TDR have been discussing a simple way to build a fuel pressure gauge -- without even touching the fuel rail itself. Such a technique is essential to reading the real fuel pressure -- my current understanding is that pressure boxes like Ramifier fool the ECM to obtain higher fuel pressure -- so the number reported via OBD would be bogus anyway...

Interestingly enough, I have discovered that indeed I did guess wrong about the way Ramifier adjusts timing and duration. Thanks to another mfg who sells a box with the same hookups, I learned that the simple process of introducing error into the fuel pressure feecback loop has some cool consequences not fully realized by the industry at first. When you tell the ECM that fuel pressure is lower than it really is, the ECM raises fuel pressure (above what it thinks it is) lengthens pulse width and slightly advances timing. huh. all pressure boxes that use this method of raising pressure do this.

I did a scan of the pressure boxes that hook up to the MAP sensor and fuel pressure port and discovered something interesting: all claim approximately the same peak HP gains:

Ramifier: 100HP
Quadzilla: 100HP
EZ: about 100 HP on the hidden level 6
Torque Dog Plus: 90, making 115HP on the HO

four boxes that do presicely the same thing: pressure fool and boost fool the ECM. What differentiates one box from the other is the way they associate manifold absolute pressure to the error introduced into the fuel pressure feedback loop. That will affect low-rpm torque, seat-o-pants feel, drivability, etc. Every one of these boxes can say that they alter timing and duration. Ramifier is (so far) the only one making that claim, but clearly the Quad, EZ, and Bullydog also do this -- its a natural consequence of introducing error into the fuel pressure feedback loop. peak power gain is limited by the pressure increase and all pressure boxes, it appears to me, have the same limitation. The only difference, as I say, is how the power comes in, at what rpm, etc. all drivability stuff.

the way it appears to me, Ramifier has no claim on peak HP for boxes of this genre, but may have a claim in the drivability space. As I say, the drivability is all in the association between boost and pressure.

The influence of boost information is small but not zero either. A different mfg told me that the ECM looks at this information and fuels accordingly (one reason for the rpm flare). also, at high manifold pressures, the ECM is most concerned about protection and de-fueling. So boost is clearly not the primary means of altering the combustion parameters at high HP levels -- fuel pressure is. The only way to make higher than stock power is to allow higher than stock boost levels (boost fooling) so that the ECM doesn't de-fuel. one very common way of boost fooling is simply to pass absolute manifold pressure directly to the ECM, and clamp it at approximately 75 inches of mercury. TST does this, allowing the ECM to smoothly respond to boost level increases and to fuel accordiongly.

I am coming closer to the personal conclusion that it is not possible to make 100 HP (with a box connected only to the pressure port and MAP sensor) without raising fuel pressure to questionable levels. Thats my own emerging opinion based on the EZ experience, data from Banks, and the fuel rail failures that Mark Chapple has seen. The stock engine has approximately 20% margin between running pressure of 23,000 lbs and the destructive safety pop-off. pressure levels of 24,500 lbs may be an acceptable risk, as this still leaves about 15% margin. 27,000 goes too far in my opinion (only 7% margin left) and 28,000 is like holy smokes margaret I'm downright stupid. I dont' believe the long term consequences of elevated fuel pressure have been thought out yet.

I still don't know the facts about 04.5 rail pressure. It does have a different injector (fewer, larger holes) and could have better seals!

dwhite

Dennis, how long do you think it will be before you have a box for the 04.5 model 600's? Or is there one available now? Has anyone hooked up the Ramifier on an 04.5?

Gypsyman

Bottom line, would you by a cam (for example) with out knowing the specs and just pray that it wouldn't make a valve kiss a piston. I don't think so. I'm sure that there are enough young kids and uneducated consumers to keep these companies in business without the educated few spending their money also. Personally, the few lines of information that these companies offer on their products isn't enough for me to jeapordize my trucks driveability or longevity. I'm tired of sitting on my money waiting for these companies to step up and act profesional while I have to go without the performance that I and all the others I know of are longing for! Guess I'll just go with injectors, at least I know what they do and can determine the safety of the products by actual facts and not loose advertising claims. Thanks for the rant time!!!

local601

hey guys you take a chance putting any after market box on, if its not a damaged fuelrail its a clutch,rear end, turbo,fuel pumps, ect. So why not bang on the others for the potential damage they will cause. Warrantys are gone on them all. You have to pay to play and if you don't trust the product move on to another, whats the diff. and if your worried about damage to your 45,000 truck don't put any product on and your worries will all go away. and if I were dennis I wouldnt say anything either. It will all come out in the wash in later. personally I dont buy things I don't about or trust either but I don't bang on them for not telling me thats there choice if they want the sale.

Gypsyman

AMEN, just buy what you trust...

Fummins

To each his own

Fummins

Seems like the guys busting ***** here havent spent a dime on anybodys product,and just like to analyze the **** out of everything! Sometimes its not black and white.I have talked to Dennis on several occasions,i think he's a straight shooter.Could i be wrong?Absolutely.Hell,maybe you all should call EDGE and ask the owner to divulge his secrets too.I am not afraid to experiment.Never have been,and life and business have treated me pretty darn good.Considering EDGE has been promising the moon for a 6 months or more,and the TST has been blowing fuses and setting codes o' plenty,i would think the RAMifier would appear to be the logical choice.Great H.P. and Torque gains,which both come on early in the power band,great driveability,no code issues that i know of,increased fuel mileage,all at a reasonable price.Some of us dont know a good thing when we see it.