1wydodge1

I am going to buy a turbo for my hotshot truck. I tow all the time over the western mountains. I am rebuilding my dodge engine and I am installing a hamilton 188/210 cam. The dually has 4.10s and sb clutch, 50 hp ddp, cai, exhaust, smarty jr, and gauges. I just need to control egt and have a little extra power.

soulezoo

Garrett stage 2 3782r.

With the cam you describe, you can even do the stage 3 3788r with excellent results.

May I also suggest the snow performance tow max water injection system... perfect for you.

JP-4.5

small set of Twins... s475 over stocker...?

Soulezoo ? Maybe a Garret over his stocker? 2 other Garrets?

AH64ID

If money isn't a big concern I would do a set of twins with a GT3788R/GT4202R with that cam and sticks. If you want a single get a Garrett Stage 3 from Tom at Turbo Resource with a Stage 2 housing.

The Stage 2 will support ~400 rwhp, WOT in 6th up a 6% grade at 2K rpms until about 6500-7000' before it hits 1300°.

soulezoo

hey guys, look... I'm about twins first and foremost

But...This is his work truck first and foremost. An investment into his livlihood. He needs it to be simple, effective, reliable and LESS expensive. I'm thinking what he needs to do work wise first and play or extra second.

He's not pushing all that much potential HP and a good single turbo is all he needs.

I'd much rather see him put less money in a good ball bearing single turbo than more money into journal bearing twins. It'll be more reliable in the long run too.

Yeah, the stage 3 with the stage 2 housing would be good. Sometimes that causes a little surge though (turbine too close in size to the compressor wheel combined with little spin resistance = surge at low temps and low rpms)

The garrett twins suggested are a terrific pair to be sure and will support 650rwhp... but the OP is good for 500 max (less with just a jr) so it is overkill.

I really think the stage 3 alone is just right for him. For towing, he's probably not going to push much more than 4-425hp anyway and he needs it to work down low more for towing than scream at the top for racing. Just my thoughts. The single stage three still provides a larger effective area of operation than a similar journal bearing'd turbo.

AH64ID

The Stage 3 should support 450-475, unless above 6-7K feet and with the cam and stage 2 housing it shouldn't surge, especially when loaded.

Towing as indicate above I see coolant temps of about 215°, Cummins states 225° is max. So there is a little room to grow, but I would plan on 425-450 rwhp max, and possibly setting the SJR on SW2 with the 50hp sticks. SW3 could possibly be ran away from the mountains, but then again you don't need the additional hp away from the mountains.

Spooler

Hmmm, this is a good question. To really keep EGT's in check a Stocker/S475 compound turbo setup is the best sure beat. Not sure if a Garrett will keep EGT's in check. Garrett's are expensive and need to be water cooled to make the bearings live. Cooling the turbo's does tax the cooling system more that is for sure. I have used a Garrett in other application for a long time. I am just not sold on them on our trucks, yet. I'd have to ride in Soulezoo truck first....LOL

carl48

we tow very heavy in the mountains and setup nearly like you, see sig. we played with several turbos. the best setup for you is a 62-65-13

RyeThomas

Engineered Diesels 63/68/14 . DONE

1wydodge1

What about a 62/65/14 for compound turbos?

AH64ID

Garrett's aren't that expensive, and the kit comes with the water cooling pipes. My Garrett kit was cheaper than a ED 63/68/12.

I am not sure how much cooling a turbo will tax the cooling system, I run lower coolant temps with the Garrett than I did with the stock turbo, and I run more rwhp. The lower exhaust back pressure means better flow thru the head, and the head is where most of your heat rejection comes from.

The stock/S475 will run cooler EGT's, but the stocker is just horrible on drive pressure.

cincydiesel

Agree... I tow heavy with the edge on hot and rarely see over 1300 while climbing the hills. I've been very impressed with my HTT 65-13

Spooler

What I worry about the most on Garrett's is longevity. The more problem free miles you guys put on them, the more I will trust them. The drive pressure on a stocker/s475 setup is 1 to 1 up to 60-65 psi of boost. The drive pressures stay in check.

Spooler

You liking that turbo? I didn't see you post anything about it. I need some more air myself with the new stix's. Feel us in on it with another thread.

soulezoo

Respectfully,

There is more than enough empirical evidence that the Garretts will provide as much air as any journal bearing turbo for cooling egts... like anything else we do, it is picking the appropriate tool for the job and employing it correctly.

The smaller Garretts are competitively priced with similar journal bearing turbos. They don't get overly expensive until you move up into big boy turbo area which isn't relevant to this discussion.

So, watercooled vs oil cooled... we can agree that turbos require cooling of some sort to survive. Journal bearing turbos use a lot of oil to do this. So do we also hear that the "oil cooling system is being taxed" to do this? No, of course not. Nor is the amount of coolant used to cool the turbos "taxing" to the coolant system. I am cooling two turbos (imagine the strain on the radiator! the horror!). It makes not a whit of difference. But the garretts do require a lot less oil for lubricating the bearings. The Ball Bearing cartridges don't require it. But here is a positive side effect of the water cooling... no need for a turbo cool down timer. That's right, no needed waiting for egts to cool before shutdown lest you coke the oil in the turbo... big benefit in my mind. Also, the way I have routed my coolant lines for the turbo, they dump first into the heater core. This helps get me heat in the winter that much faster... another score!

The last point, and this can be argued in either direction-- I'll let the reader make his own judgment-- has to do with wheel sizes and efficiency.

The Garrett GT (not GTX-- different and not for this discussion) series of turbos must use a larger compressor wheel to obtain the equivalent lbs/min of airflow vs a comparible S300 turbo. Better said, the 3788r for instance uses a 63.5 mm inducer. But puts out the same lbs/min as a s362 that uses a 62mm inducer. As anyone that has gone from a 62 to a 64 or a 66 will tell you, that teeny increase in wheel size has a big effect on spool. Why? Wheel mass and inertia. However, the Garrett wheels are so "light on their feet" that the big wheel spools much faster. The larger opening also decreases the potential for barking the turbo and on the turbine side, the much larger turbine (compared to a 65, 68 or even 71mm) increases the ability to flow the exhaust gas. (the 3788 uses a 72.5mm turbine and yes still spools faster)
Lest someone doubt my statement, refer to the folks who have installed the 3782 stage 2 and report as fast or faster than spool from a stock turbo that is a 60mm inducer and have much improved cooling and driving characteristics. For me, I run what is the equivalent of a 68mm inducer on my TOP turbo with a 77mm turbine and 16cm2 exhaust housing and yet I spool about the same as a 62/71/13 turbo. That should tell you something!


The advantages don't stop there, but that is enough for now. I don't want to come off sounding like a billboard for Garrett; they have certainly not sent me any money. People should buy what they want and be comfortable with it. I am only trying to dispel some of the myths I've seen spread over the years about the turbo and that then serves to limit ones' choice in a given product line. I want more choice, not less. There are also folks out there that customize these turbos to tailor fit to your needs no differently than say ED does... customized wheels are available too.

Forgot one thing... guys a lot smarter than me playing with million dollar engines in formula one and leMans... use Garrett BB turbos!